57139 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

Aaaand I'm back again and ready for new speculations!
seriously though, anything new?

[DirtyPhoenix]

I think we should further divide the strong evidence into direct and Indirect evidence.
Direct evidence: Shep breath scene location, TIM eyes, wound in the stomach, oily shadows etc
Indirect: All the dialogs and scenes which dont make sense (like the child outside the vent room)

[gunslinger_ruiz]

pirate1802 wrote...

Thanks!

About the minor evidences,
1. The gasp is similaar to when shep wakes but because they are reusing sounds and animations a lot. I even noticed the gasp when shep first sees the reapers landing outside in the opening sequence is also similar.

2. It may mean something, maynot mean.. not sure.

3. Coincidence? I noticed caution sign on my shuttle when doing the Quarian admiral rescue mission..

4. I didnt pay attention to this, will do next time I get there

5. same as 4

6. Good point! You should have put it in strong evidence.

7. coincidence/unintended?

8. Good point again, Strong evidence IMO.

9. Good point. Which makes me think, is it possible shep's inside some kind of reaper consensus?

I'll think about the strong evidence after finishing lunch

I should have said this earlier but all "Minor evidence" is easy to argue "coincidence" or "bad writing" or "insignficant." Easy to argue agaisnt IT in other words.

1. Shepard's breath is an incredibly significant scene, I wouldn't throw that gasp away as reused assets so easily.

2. Maybe, maybe not, I'm in the same boat on the white screen with blue...vignette is it called? the outline.

3. Possible coincidence. You can also see Caution and Warning on various shuttles, it's the placement that brings significance to mind. Don't forget the "red bolt to the forhead" sign near the vent as well.

4. It's there, trust me I've seen it 10 times *not a fanatic winkwink* or you can youtube some gameplay of it.

5. yeah

6. It's questionable because Shepard is wounded ALL over, surprised he/she is sitll standing. Even though it's the only specific place you're holding it's still potentiall IDT because it's exactly where you shot Anderson, lending more to the point that Anderson represents your willpower.

7. Possible. Possible it's just something the devs through in for fun.

8. Thank you.

9. there is no 9. I think you mean Legion's quote in which case the Reapers don't operate via consensus occording to EDI and I think even Legion. The quote goes towards the enitre hallucination being percieved as something familiar, familiar bits of places youv'e been already.


@estebanus

I posted some main/minor evidence towrads Indoctrination Theory on the previous page if you'd like to look.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

pirate1802 wrote...

I think we should further divide the strong evidence into direct and Indirect evidence.
Direct evidence: Shep breath scene location, TIM eyes, wound in the stomach, oily shadows etc
Indirect: All the dialogs and scenes which dont make sense (like the child outside the vent room)

Feel free to do with the list as you see fit. I plan on further explaining each point in my own document, I'll post result here in the coming days.

[BleedingUranium]

While not evidence, to me the geth consensus mission (along with the dreams, as you do control them) was extremely important because it opened up the player (not Shep, specifically the person playing this time) to two ideas:

-That you can have gameplay and be somewhere that is not reality

-That that reality is formed by Shep's memories and expectations, but all the visuals are only as real a in a dream

This also explains the stupidly stupid "space battle" in the background of the sar kid scene, with the cardboard cutout ships moving. Dreams are low detail, especially in the background, but seem normal at the time.
That last part was a bit off topic, but oh well

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 28 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

I'm not disputing the shepard breath scene, its a strong evidence IMO I'm just saying that gasp sound is similar to some other less suspicious gasps. That gasp when your facing the committee and the reapers land is also similar. In my second playthrough I instinctively thought: hey that sounds like the breath scene.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

sooo anything interesting since yesterday?

[estebanus]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...


@estebanus

I posted some main/minor evidence towrads Indoctrination Theory on the previous page if you'd like to look.

Ah. Thanks, I will!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm not disputing the shepard breath scene, its a strong evidence IMO I'm just saying that gasp sound is similar to some other less suspicious gasps. That gasp when your facing the committee and the reapers land is also similar. In my second playthrough I instinctively thought: hey that sounds like the breath scene.

hm... I don't recall a gasp in the beginning. The first gasp I remember is after your first nightmare. I'l lcheck this out.

[DirtyPhoenix]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm not disputing the shepard breath scene, its a strong evidence IMO I'm just saying that gasp sound is similar to some other less suspicious gasps. That gasp when your facing the committee and the reapers land is also similar. In my second playthrough I instinctively thought: hey that sounds like the breath scene.

hm... I don't recall a gasp in the beginning. The first gasp I remember is after your first nightmare. I'l lcheck this out.

I'll try to record it :S

[HellishFiend]

RedDeadRemix wrote...

K I know this random, but during this video at 25:17-19, if you pause just after it switches views from EDI/Joker to the ship, look in the bushes next to Joker:



Is that Garrus??! =O It pops up for a second, but it sure looks like he walks into the bushes WHAT does this happen in all Synthesis endings?!

Wow, that is unmistakably Garrus. Nice catch. Surprised it hasnt been noticed before!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

RedDeadRemix wrote...

K I know this random, but during this video at 25:17-19, if you pause just after it switches views from EDI/Joker to the ship, look in the bushes next to Joker:



Is that Garrus??! =O It pops up for a second, but it sure looks like he walks into the bushes WHAT does this happen in all Synthesis endings?!

Wow, that is unmistakably Garrus. Nice catch. Surprised it hasnt been noticed before!

Looks like a bug of some kind. I mean, it looks like he's stepping off the Normandy in the same motion Liara is but he's behind a bush.... Speculation!

[estebanus]

It seems like there's nothing major going on momentarily like troll attacks or new evidence, so I think I'll just visit my brother earlier today.

see you all later!

[tg1413]

I replayed through the ending section again in my second playthrough and it really hit me as to just how strange everything is after Shepard takes the beam up to the Citadel. To me it almost seemed as if Anderson was a hallucination who was putting ideas into Shepard's head. Anderson is somehow inexplicably ahead of Shepard, and everything that Anderson says comes to pass, however, it seems to take some basis from Shepard's past experiences. Firstly he tells Shepard that he's in a room like the Collector Base i.e. the room where Shepard wakes up, yet there's no sign of him. He then tells Shepard he's moved forward to a chasm where the walls are shifting, and lo and behold, Shepard moves through to this chasm, where once again there's no sign of Anderson and no other path from which he could have come. One of the things which I thought strange the first time I moved through the chasm was just how similar the shifting walls were to those on the Shadow Broker's ship, to the point of them having exactly the same movement and sound (possibly just using the same assets to save time and money but it seems like a bit too much of a coincidence). Then I realised, what if it looked so similar because the Reapers were using objects and environments from Shepard's memory to create this space in his/her mind? Anderson describing these things helps Shepard to visualise them. Moving on slightly, when Shepard shoots Anderson, he/she receives exactly the same wound from the shot. It just seems to me that everything that seems to happen to Anderson is a premonition of something that will happen to Shepard. I'm probably way off the mark here though.

Other weird things I noticed after getting shot by Harbinger:

Shepard always wakes up wearing N7 armour regardless of what he/she was wearing before. I understand they can only make so many models but it's just weird and possibly intentional that Shepard can end up wearing a completely different set.

Shepard always wakes up with a Carnifex pistol even if he/she didn't have it in his/her arsenal before being shot (although this could have just been one picked up off the floor).

After falling unconscious and taking the weird moving floor lift thingy up to the place where the Catalyst appears most of Shepard's injuries disappear. After the confrontation with the Illusive Man we see blood from Shepard's mouth and nose in addition to all the blood from the (gunshot?) wound. When Shepard appears on top of the Citadel this has all disappeared.

I understand these last three problems could simply be continuity errors from the developers, but they're just some of the many things that appear strange regarding the final sequence which could lend themselves to the indoctrination theory.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

I'm watching my 30 second recording of the bonus scene for the 100th time, I've no doubt I can watch it a thousand more and get no closer to being certain of what things are.There are 2 objects of different make behind Shepard's chest, a third object which is unmistakeably another piece of broken rubble. The 2 objects... one if its in the background could be a building, the other is circular in shape but blocky in construction and I'm sure describing it helps no one. Wish I could upload the high quality vid but youtube doesn't carry it over.

Hm.... I'll come back after some sleep and after watching it a thousand more times. Night everyone.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I just found this in another thread:

Taken from a post from gibbed on the Something Awful forums, this is the way the endings are described in the game's code:
enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

notice how for the Control ending it says BECOME A REAPER. Not become the Catalyst or become a being of light, no, become a f*cking Reaper.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just found this in another thread:

Taken from a post from gibbed on the Something Awful forums, this is the way the endings are described in the game's code:
enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

notice how for the Control ending it says BECOME A REAPER. Not become the Catalyst or become a being of light, no, become a f*cking Reaper.

That means there are 4 destroy and 2 control endings, and as some earlier post states, the save doesnt give plot points to control/synthesis while it gives 3 to destroy.
I was under the impression it does so because there are 3 destroy and only 1 control ending, but this is very very interesting!

Faith in IDT: +100:O

Modifié par pirate1802, 28 avril 2012 - 10:50 .

[Coachdongwiffle]

ha nice catch on the Garrus thing but lol not really big news but interesting anyway

[Drift Avalii]

Become a Reaper? Srsly? Can someone verify this? That is a damn nice catch, Earthborn. I was having a mopey 'what if BW don't do IDT' morning but you've cheered me the **** up. Ta muchly from the rainy skies of England :-D

[Arian Dynas]

 [quote]RedDeadRemix wrote...

Bump[/quote]

My friend, there is no need for bumping here. Now step aside son, and let a real spammer show you how it's done. 

[quote]Allan Schumacher wrote...

Haha I didn't let Thane die. I chose him to go into the tubes and unfortunately that didn't work out for him

I likes my consequences though! [/quote]

I personally just though;

"Hmm, who is the best tech specialist we got?" Decided on Tali.

Then  "who is the second most able leader after me?" Well Miranda suguessted it, and it's in her ability tree so...

Then I decided "ok who is the nastiest mother****er when it comes to biotics?, Either Jack or Samara..." So I chose Samara for it.

And I already just knew Mordin would die unless you sent him back.

[quote]Arbalor4 wrote...
*snip*
[/quote]

Welcome to the fold. Didja bring food?

[quote]jamRwoo wrote...
You've actually read all of this? I assume after like page 5 it's mostly people saying "someone might have already said this, but..."
[/quote]

Oh hell no,

I'm one of the regulars here, some might call me infamous (beware my walls of text.) and I have read all of, if not most of the thread by this point.

[quote]spotlessvoid wrote...

The first time you posted here and the Bioware banner subsequently popped up under the thread 
"What have I done?"

Priceless [/quote]

Indeed, him posting made us all respectable now.

[quote]pirate1802 wrote...

Oh i never tried that, read it somewhere. For me Kirrahae died back in ME1, missed one of his mission things by mistake. So I hear he is a cool guy? I'd do another ME1 run to keep him alive ;D

[/quote]

I think eh a cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

[quote]spotlessvoid wrote...

[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[quote]RedDeadRemix wrote...

Quick question: After the Destroy ending with lowest EMS, where Earth is obliderated, can you see the Stargazer scene, too?
Because, that would be kind of weird.[/quote]

Stargazer scene always plays, as far as I know. In the context of the IT, it's because the Stargazer scene is part of Shepard's "hallucination" - he is imagining a future where the galaxy is free regardless of which option he picked. 

[/quote] 
It's post credits so who knows if it's supposed to even be part of the story.
Maybe it's just Bioware saying it's not over there is more coming without it actually being tied to the narrative[/quote]

Which would be my own personal take on it. 

[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

That the fact that he hears a hum at all may be nothing, or it may "hint" at there being an indoctrination device or technology on the Normandy. However many have searched for hours and not found anything significant. Mostly, we think the Reaper IFF you get in ME2 could produce a weak indoctrination signal. Cerberus may well have used more Reaper tech in building the SR-2, not knowing if it could prudce the signal or not.

[/quote]

Law of Conservation of detail, they wouldn't put it in if it meant nothing.

Also, welcome to the thread, stick around a while, we'll convert you. Click either of the links in my sig if you want some interesting reading. 

[quote]Simon_Says wrote...
*Snip*
[/quote]

Poor Simon... did we break your head?

I won't deny, I probably don't know **** about complex physics beyond the most ideological stuff, high concept sort of stuff y'know? 


Also working on my own comprehensive list of all the IDT evidence I find compelling, It'll take a while though.

[MaximizedAction]

Drift Avalii wrote...

Become a Reaper? Srsly? Can someone verify this? That is a damn nice catch, Earthborn. I was having a mopey 'what if BW don't do IDT' morning but you've cheered me the **** up. Ta muchly from the rainy skies of England :-D

Among the "realize bad hair day" morning and the "I'm not gonna make this exam" morning, the worst one.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

Become a Reaper? Srsly? Can someone verify this? That is a damn nice catch, Earthborn. I was having a mopey 'what if BW don't do IDT' morning but you've cheered me the **** up. Ta muchly from the rainy skies of England :-D

Among the "realize bad hair day" morning and the "I'm not gonna make this exam" morning, the worst one.

Among? I'd say it is the worst of all of them

also, @Drift Avalii: I'll be in England tomorrow  can't wait... Southampton, because I'll be studying there in September.

[Drift Avalii]

@ Earthborn and MaximisedAction

That's really cool.  I would tell you that English weather isn't always like this, but for the last two weeks it has been! Southampton is lovely, a friend just completed a masters in chemistry there. What are you going to study?

And it definitely is the worst morning out of the three, closely followed by 'the dog has eaten/vomited in my shoes'.

[Rifneno]

Geez. NO love for the "Crucible is a giant rickroll device" joke?

pirate1802 wrote...

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

It might not mean anything at all. At one point someone from BW said it was an easter egg about Buzz Aldrin. Easter eggs don't tend to mean anything.

Erield wrote...

Ok, no seriously. I think IT is a cool idea, but was not intended, and that everything that is seen as "evidence" is a combination of circumstantial and wishful thinking. Because I don't think it was intended, I see little point in spending lots of scarce brainpower thinking, analyzing, etc. it. This includes reading a 1000+ page thread, lol.

*eye-roll* Yeah, they told us new symptoms of indoctrination like "ringing in the ears" for no reason at all, then added that sound effect for no reason at all. They made a "bolt to the head" warning sign and used it only one place, a place that makes no sense for it to be, for no reason at all. They made comics telling us how TIM got his weird eyes from a Reaper artifact that was huskifying/indoctrinating people and then changed Shepard's eyes to exactly like TIM's in control and synthesis for no reason.

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

That the fact that he hears a hum at all may be nothing, or it may "hint" at there being an indoctrination device or technology on the Normandy. However many have searched for hours and not found anything significant. Mostly, we think the Reaper IFF you get in ME2 could produce a weak indoctrination signal. Cerberus may well have used more Reaper tech in building the SR-2, not knowing if it could prudce the signal or not.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I very strongly doubt the IFF for multiple reasons. An IFF is software not hardware, the IFF is so obvious that the characters would have to be simply retarded for none of them to have realized it may indoctrinated and ran a check, in fact EDI did do a thorough check of it in ME2.

I'm of the belief that Cerberus used Reaper tech when rebuilding Shepard.
1) They re-iterate at Cronos Station that it was pretty much impossible. There's no good literary reason for them to re-iterate that.
2) Miranda complains about all the black boxes she had to deal with on the Lazarus Project. Again, there's no literary reason for this if taken at face value. Besides, what sort of tech would TIM not trust Miranda to know about?
3) In refering to Cerberus' improvements with Kai Leng, Anderson says "Look at what they did with you and Grayson." Shepard, Kai Leng, and Paul Grayson. All majorly "upgraded" by Cerberus. Two are known to have been done with Reaper tech, the other one was by still mysterious means.

jamRwoo wrote...

IT is silly...the Normandy was plated with a mithril-adamantium alloy that made it impervious to the dark electrengy sonarmagnetic pulsewave responsible for indoctrination.

LOL. I like you.

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

8. The Citadel level has similarities to places you’ve been before: The Collector Ship and Base, parts of the Shadow Brokers ship.

a. Legion, “Your mind perceives our world as something familiar”

Speaking of literary reasons, there's also no good reason for that line to have been put in the game. The geth server sure as hell wasn't familiar so it's not true. It wasn't really funny, so it wasn't put in for comedic effect. I can't see why that explanation existed if not to explain why a virtual world of the far more advanced Reapers would look made up of parts of Shepard's memories.

Looks like a bug of some kind. I mean, it looks like he's stepping off the Normandy in the same motion Liara is but he's behind a bush.... Speculation!

He's trying to calibrate physics.