57139 réponses à ce sujet

[WizenSlinky0]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

There's no way that old man could have told such a detailed story with what was in that time capsule without making up huge swaths of it. Which kinda invalidates a lot of what you've done considering you no longer know what was real and what was some old guy going "AND THEN A GIANT THRESHER MAW ATE THE REAPER!" Which is even MORE unsatisfying than the ending we already have.

Uuugh.

Eh, if I had a say, I would rip the Stargazer scene off the disc with my bare hands, feed it to the dogs, and fire whoever came up with that awful little addendum to the story. It's like Dragon Age II, without the clever aspects. Would Stargazer *really* tell the child about how my Shepard made sweet, sweet love to Liara several times and then genocided the Rachni...?


But hey, you play the hand you're dealt. And Bioware gave me these horrid cards.

Which is why I still subscribe to my original theory.

Old man kidnaps small child. Tells him stories about sex and adventure while on the way to his winter cabin.

Just a creepy old man on a mission. Shepard has served him well over the years.

[Tom Jolly]

adrianlocke647 wrote...


Eh, if I had a say, I would rip the Stargazer scene off the disc with my bare hands, feed it to the dogs, and fire whoever came up with that awful little addendum to the story. .

C'mon!   It's BUZZ ALDRIN voicing the Stargazer!!! That's awesome.

[k8ee]

rogueagent6 wrote...

I REALLY think everyone should go back and read the Indoctrination section under Reaper Capabilities in the secondary codex. I posted a direct quote three pages ago, but it's already been buried. Everything Shepard experiences in those final moments is explained there. The Reapers are attempting to indoctrinate you, there is no other explanation. Those final moments are you fighting for your mind.

Edit: Sorry, three pages back.

Did you PM the OP to have it added to page one? If it isn't already there?

[3Minotaur3]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

adrianlocke647 wrote...

To counter Stargazer's scene is simple.

Liara approaches you for the sole reason of preparing "capsules" of information about the Reaper threat, and the war for survival. She includes extensive data on Shepard in this. Then, she spreads them over the galaxy.

Stargazer is in a pre-space flight civilization. Therefore, whatever planet he is on would almost definitely be involved in the next cycle, should Shepard fail. Since they are planet-bound, they have no way of knowing if it succeeded or not.

It makes just as much sense as the alternative; Shepard went up to the Crucible's true controls alone after Anderson died. Made the choice with no contact to anyone. There is no possible way anyone could know what happened up there unless Shepard survived. Therefore, Stargazer contradicts Synthesize, Control, and low-EMS Destroy more than he does the hallucination theory.

And if Stargazer *is* a descendant of the crashed Normandy? How would anyone there know what happened? Or that they even won...? Joker apparently ran for the relay or jumped to FTL to avoid the blast. If he's already running when the blast happens, it obviously doesn't look like a win to him. The last thing any of the crew could POSSIBLY know is that Shepard got hit by a giant laser while running towards the beam. That's assuming Joker somehow picked up your two squaddies and they didn't die.

There's no way that old man could have told such a detailed story with what was in that time capsule without making up huge swaths of it. Which kinda invalidates a lot of what you've done considering you no longer know what was real and what was some old guy going "AND THEN A GIANT THRESHER MAW ATE THE REAPER!" Which is even MORE unsatisfying than the ending we already have.

Uuugh.

Again, we don't know for sure if they're descendant from the Normandy and how much time has pass since the crash... Stories has a tendency to be distorted over time... The longer the time, the less accurate they get...

[AM94]

3Minotaur3 wrote...

AM94 wrote...

The fact that the godchild looks exactly like the little boy in the beginning of the game, and doesnt even look like a VI that we've ever seen has to mean something.

Looks more like a hologram to me... A VI that brain-search Shepard for a significant picture to show him...

But we have seen numerous holograms, Avina is one, EDI, even Sovereign as a hologram and none of them looked even remotely like that, and it is never mentioned in game that they brain-search people to create a more appropriate look. If the Catalyst is reaper tech and so is Sovereign than he couldve done the same thing to hide his true nature and yet he didnt. That would make you're claim speculation at best.

[holyshock18]

[quote]RABicle wrote...

Sheperd died running towards the beam. They all did. The reapers won.

Everything
from Sheperd's death onwards is told by the Stargazer to the child.
They're people of the next cycle who know of Sheperd's legend through
Liara's time capsules. They assume Sheperd defeated the Reapers because
they are alive and everything is peaceful.[/quote]

The chancesof humans existing in the next cycle would be extremely small.

[/quote]

Somehow i dont see if they are human or not. They resamble humans. But so does asari and Quarians in long range

[Sylvanfeather]

Erethrian wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Milvushina wrote...

DangerSandler wrote...

Shepard DID have issues with indoctrination though. Remember after Arrival? He said that he was having nightmares/dreams/visions.

Was that only in the Arrival DLC?  I didn't play that one ...   :

My only problem with Arrival is the fact that not everyone, myself included, actually have played it yet, so headcanon for people using the indoctrination theory would be varied. Some Shepards would be more exposed to indoctrination than others.

Wrong, as said in the "Official ME3 guides" what happens on the DLCs The Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival takes place even if you didn't play the DLC on ME2, just off screen. So your Shepard did Arrival, just without you watching him/her. ;P

Perhaps the beacon on Eden Prime, and subsequent beacons, provide more than just knowledge? A way to resist indoctrination? They even make a mention that the one on Thessia reacts to Shepards presence.

[DXLelouch15]

well we already have Space Magic so whos to say Chuck Norris doesnt exist in Mass Effect and he goes to kill the reapers instead if Shepard picks destroy lol

[Golferguy758]

Of course you can tell a detailed story without knowing all the details. Look at greek myths and legends for incredibly vivid stories that were pissed down from time to time

[Dormin]

Mr Massakka wrote...

RABicle wrote...

Sheperd died running towards the beam. They all did. The reapers won.

Everything from Sheperd's death onwards is told by the Stargazer to the child. They're people of the next cycle who know of Sheperd's legend through Liara's time capsules. They assume Sheperd defeated the Reapers because they are alive and everything is peaceful.

... that makes terrifyingly much sense...

<3:crying:

[Tashakov]

Tom Jolly wrote...

C'mon!   It's BUZZ ALDRIN voicing the Stargazer!!! That's awesome.

True. But you know what?

I'd find someone else for him to voice. Like some American counterpart to Major Coats or whatever his name is.

The scene is just... silly. That's the best way I can put it. If hallucination turns out to be true, I'd much rather it be a dazed dream of Shepard finally getting some recognition instead of some creepy geezer regaling a young child about her sexual exploits with Liara...

*Mordin-voice* Implications... unpleasant.

Modifié par adrianlocke647, 12 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[Rifneno]

Mr Massakka wrote...

RABicle wrote...

Sheperd died running towards the beam. They all did. The reapers won.

Everything from Sheperd's death onwards is told by the Stargazer to the child. They're people of the next cycle who know of Sheperd's legend through Liara's time capsules. They assume Sheperd defeated the Reapers because they are alive and everything is peaceful.

... that makes terrifyingly much sense...

It does. I said the same thing a few hours back. I'm sure I wasn't the first either. Shepard was a split second from being hit with Harbinger's main beam weapon when it splits off into this hallucination thing. No one survives that thing on foot. A regular capital ship's beam is known to be able to take down a dreadnought. And it wasn't a near-miss, the scene cuts out a split second before a DIRECT HIT. When you wake up, you hear people saying "My God, they were decimated..." Ever heard someone talk about a near death experience and how they could hear people talking about them while they were dead? That.

I'm certainly hoping it's a false interpretation though. Because the Reapers winning is the only ending I simply would not accept. Even this star child nonsense is head and shoulders above it all being in vain. I'm okay with Shepard dying. I'm not okay with the Reapers living.

[humes spork]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

The scene is just... silly. That's the best way I can put it. If hallucination turns out to be true, I'd much rather it be a dazed dream of Shepard finally getting some recognition instead of some creepy geezer regaling a young child about her sexual exploits with Liara...

*Mordin-voice* Implications... unpleasant.

Oh, it could be worse. It could be the old man regailing the child about how femShep had to be careful to not...ingest.

[WizenSlinky0]

humes spork wrote...

Lurchibald wrote...

Seroiusly? the whole point is that the Normandy shouldn't even be where it is, it (again) is part of the Alliance fleet and Both the crew and Admiral Hackett wouldn't run away.

Yes, it very well could be.

The Normandy is a stealth ship sufficiently advanced that unless it sends out "pings" can't be detected by the Reapers. Pay careful attention to what the Asari councillor talks about after Thessia -- continuity of civilization. That's important, considering the Normandy was one out of two ships seen in the trilogy that are actually capable of ensuring continuity of civilization (the quarian consulate ship being the other).

Remember what Liara said about the Normandy getting "lost in the stars" during the time capsule scene? That's also important.

It's logical that when Hammer failed, Hackett ordered the Normandy to evacuate as many personnel as possible and run -- go dark, find a habitable world far away from the relays, and colonize so somebody would survive the harvesting. Nobody would like it, but they're soldiers, trained to accept orders and do what absolutely, positively has to be done. That would explain why the Normandy is in relay transit, and crash-landing on a garden world being nothing less than raw, unfettered, serendipity. That would also explain why the squadmates are on the Normandy, if Joker decided to or was ordered to evacuate Hammer survivors as first priority.

No, if their point was to create a viable colony they would not include anyone who wouldn't be putting out babies and the LAST thing you would show would be Shepard's love interest stepping out. From a developer perspective that is the very last thing you would ever want to imply to fans that are prone to overexcitement.

3Minotaur3 wrote...

Again, we don't know for sure if
they're descendant from the Normandy and how much time has pass since
the crash... Stories has a tendency to be distorted over time... The
longer the time, the less accurate they get...

Well, my post was not referring to time in terms of victory but in terms of time capsule. It was in response to the discussion of the ending scene being irrelevent to the victory or defeat of the reapers.

Doesn't really matter. Still do not like the idea of being a childs exaggerated bed-time story of sex and adventure.

[Milvushina]

noobcannon wrote...

if you're going with the hallucination theory, then you only believe 'destory' kills them becasue god-boy tells you it does. i for one think the god-boy is harbinger.

Yeah, what's up with Harbinger never making an appearance, after all the hype?
And why is Shepard reminded that s/he is part synthetic, but apparently can survive in the destory ending?
We can't be sure if the VI lied.  It depends on whether the VI meant Shep was part synthetic as in her culture relying on technology, or as in, literally s/he was no longer all human after her resurrection by Cerberus. 

But speaking practically, how could Bioware have a fake-out ending and then clarify it later?  Much more likely the game was purposefully written to be very vague so that you can make different themes fit your ending, but none is really the 100% objective true ending.  Would prefer something more objective and some closure.

Modifié par Milvushina, 12 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[Mr. Mistake]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Tom Jolly wrote...

C'mon!   It's BUZZ ALDRIN voicing the Stargazer!!! That's awesome.

True. But you know what?

I'd find someone else for him to voice. Like some American counterpart to Major Coats or whatever his name is.

The scene is just... silly. That's the best way I can put it. If hallucination turns out to be true, I'd much rather it be a dazed dream of Shepard finally getting some recognition instead of some creepy geezer regaling a young child about her sexual exploits with Liara...

*Mordin-voice* Implications... unpleasant.

+1

I think it adds a lot of unnecessary pseudo-closure.

[Bfler]

humes spork wrote...
 ...That would also explain why the squadmates are on the Normandy, if Joker decided to or was ordered to evacuate Hammer survivors as first priority.

He rescued the squadmates which where close behind Shepard during the run to the beam and Shepard the most important person remains alive and alone in the mud?

[3Minotaur3]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

AM94 wrote...

The fact that the godchild looks exactly like the little boy in the beginning of the game, and doesnt even look like a VI that we've ever seen has to mean something.

Looks more like a hologram to me... A VI that brain-search Shepard for a significant picture to show him...

Uh, is brain-search a thing that VI's are known to do now?  I must have missed that.

Do you really put anything past a Reaper VI?

The kid said he created the Reapers, so it must be more advanced than them... So it should be possible for it to do that...

Unless it's an hallucination...

Modifié par 3Minotaur3, 12 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[Syokhan]

Guys, I'd love for this theory to be true (believe me, I really would - I was deeply dissatisfied with the endings), but if it were, wouldn't it cheapen Anderson's death scene? It was so wonderfully done, with the music, dialogue, expressions and all, that I really don't want it to be retconned. How can you go back to Shep in the rubble after the charge without losing that beautiful scene?

[MissMaster_2]

[quote]holyshock18 wrote...

[quote]RABicle wrote...

Sheperd died running towards the beam. They all did. The reapers won.

Everything
from Sheperd's death onwards is told by the Stargazer to the child.
They're people of the next cycle who know of Sheperd's legend through
Liara's time capsules. They assume Sheperd defeated the Reapers because
they are alive and everything is peaceful.[/quote]

The chancesof humans existing in the next cycle would be extremely small.

[/quote]

Somehow i dont see if they are human or not. They resamble humans. But so does asari and Quarians in long range
[/quote]


Well if Shep died why did she take a  breath after destroying the Reapers?

[Tashakov]

humes spork wrote...

Oh, it could be worse. It could be the old man regailing the child about how femShep had to be careful to not...ingest.

... Pardonnez-moi.

*vomits everywhere*

Modifié par adrianlocke647, 12 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[Pyewacket]

humes spork wrote...

Lurchibald wrote...

Seroiusly? the whole point is that the Normandy shouldn't even be where it is, it (again) is part of the Alliance fleet and Both the crew and Admiral Hackett wouldn't run away.

It's logical that when Hammer failed, Hackett ordered the Normandy to evacuate as many personnel as possible and run -- go dark, find a habitable world far away from the relays, and colonize so somebody would survive the harvesting. Nobody would like it, but they're soldiers, trained to accept orders and do what absolutely, positively has to be done. That would explain why the Normandy is in relay transit, and crash-landing on a garden world being nothing less than raw, unfettered, serendipity. That would also explain why the squadmates are on the Normandy, if Joker decided to or was ordered to evacuate Hammer survivors as first priority.

So Joker managed to get down to the Hammer site, grab my somehow completely uninjured team mates and high tail it out of the system in under 10 minutes?  That's pretty impressive even for Joker.

[Dessalines]

There are just too many weird hints going on through out the story. In the beginning you can talk to a doctor who discussed how you are healed up after your ideal. I think they even mention implants.
The fact that the VI is easy sympathetic or hostile to you has to mean something
The fact that your LI talks about a ship getting lost on a peaceful planet, and that is what happens to the Normady is either foreshadowing a terrible idea or it is part of the indoctrination.
q

[MissMaster_2]

Milvushina wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

if you're going with the hallucination theory, then you only believe 'destory' kills them becasue god-boy tells you it does. i for one think the god-boy is harbinger.

Yeah, what's up with Harbinger never making an appearance, after all the hype?
And why is Shepard reminded that s/he is part synthetic, but apparently can survive in the destory ending?
We can't be sure if the VI lied.  It depends on whether the VI meant Shep was part synthetic as in her culture relying on technology, or as in, literally s/he was no longer all human after her resurrection by Cerberus. 

But speaking practically, how could Bioware have a fake-out ending and then clarify it later?  Much more likely the game was purposefully written to be very vague so that you can make different themes fit your ending, but none is really the 100% objective true ending.  Would prefer something more objective and some closure.

Herby is there, he's the one that shoots Shepard.

[GBGriffin]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Tom Jolly wrote...

C'mon!   It's BUZZ ALDRIN voicing the Stargazer!!! That's awesome.

True. But you know what?

I'd find someone else for him to voice. Like some American counterpart to Major Coats or whatever his name is.
 

American hero =/= compelling voice actor. 
Again, I appreciate what Buzz did, but don't put him in your silly ending to sell me on it, BioWare ;( 

It's another concept that is great in theory, but falls apart at execution...which, now that I phrase it that way, really goes along with the entire ME3 creative process o_O