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[paxxton]

Did any one notice some crucial similarities between what Saren and TIM say?

Both say that they no longer believe that the Reapers can be stopped and both accuse Shepard of wanting to undo everything each of them has accomplished. The key words are "believe" and "undo".

Modifié par paxxton, 29 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[DJBare]

estebanus wrote...

You know, a lot of people say that the final hours app disproves the IT, but ultimately, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, the way that they say that the sequence was dropped, NOT the idea, actually says a lot IMO.

They experimented with an endgame sequence, what we got was the left overs from the experiment, you cannot just rip out stuff without it breaking other stuff, so they had to go with what they had because time was running out, it was indoctrination, then it was not.

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

Or, he sees perfection the way the reapers do: An entire galaxy being "ascended" to a new existance.

What I meant by "real" was that they actually are choices as to how to use the Crucible, not a symbolic battle for Shepard's mind.

[balance5050]

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

It's hard for me to fully accept that because that would mean that the Shep Alive scene is on the Citadel, which is too illogical for me to accept right now.

[llbountyhunter]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

Or, he sees perfection the way the reapers do: An entire galaxy being "ascended" to a new existance.

What I meant by "real" was that they actually are choices as to how to use the Crucible, not a symbolic battle for Shepard's mind.

I always thought if it as bieng both- a symbolic batttle with real-world results..

[Dwailing]

DJBare wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You know, a lot of people say that the final hours app disproves the IT, but ultimately, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, the way that they say that the sequence was dropped, NOT the idea, actually says a lot IMO.

They experimented with an endgame sequence, what we got was the left overs from the experiment, you cannot just rip out stuff without it breaking other stuff, so they had to go with what they had because time was running out, it was indoctrination, then it was not.

The thing is, they said that they removed that gameplay sequence in November 2011.  That was still three months before ME3 went gold.  That SOUNDS like it would be enough time to remove the evidence of indoctrination in the ending.  However, I'm not a programmer, so I might be wrong.

[DJBare]

estebanus wrote...

Or, he sees perfection the way the reapers do: An entire galaxy being "ascended" to a new existance.

Which reinforces Reaper indoctrination, when the victim and Reaper goals coincide, Saren was likewise, TIM tells you he "only wanted to help humanity"; if you have high enough paragon you can get him too see past the illusion which is why he takes his own life.

[MaximizedAction]

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

The choices being real is problematic: It makes it tough for an explaination of the Shepard breathing scene.

And by TIM seeing perfection it's in fact Shepard's 'dark side' seeing the Reaperized Earth as perfect, since they are the Harbinger of your blahblahblah

[Dwailing]

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

It's hard for me to fully accept that because that would mean that the Shep Alive scene is on the Citadel, which is too illogical for me to accept right now.

Yeah, I agree.  I think I said this before, but I'll say it again just to make sure everyone hears it.  There is NO FRAKKING WAY Shepard survived that explosion if it was real.

[DJBare]

Dwailing wrote...

The thing is, they said that they removed that gameplay sequence in November 2011.  That was still three months before ME3 went gold.  That SOUNDS like it would be enough time to remove the evidence of indoctrination in the ending.  However, I'm not a programmer, so I might be wrong.

It would have taken a lot longer, to remove the remnants would have required a total rewrite.

[llbountyhunter]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

That almost sounds like it would imply that the choices are real.

The choices are real, but viewed with "rose tinted glasses"; that's IT, a real world viewed with a different perspective, I know I've said this before, but I'll repeat TIM's last words "It's perfect"; he states this in reference to earth, but at that moment earth is still being ravaged by the Reapers, TIM sees perfection because that's what the Reapers want him to see.

Or, he sees perfection the way the reapers do: An entire galaxy being "ascended" to a new existance.

What I meant by "real" was that they actually are choices as to how to use the Crucible, not a symbolic battle for Shepard's mind.

I always thought if it as bieng both- a symbolic batttle with real-world results..

.... meanig his not actually on the citadel, but the choises actually happen in some form? 

[monrapias]

so nothing new? just the last 400 pages or so being about people aruging if it is IT or not?

[estebanus]

DJBare wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You know, a lot of people say that the final hours app disproves the IT, but ultimately, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, the way that they say that the sequence was dropped, NOT the idea, actually says a lot IMO.

They experimented with an endgame sequence, what we got was the left overs from the experiment, you cannot just rip out stuff without it breaking other stuff, so they had to go with what they had because time was running out, it was indoctrination, then it was not.

Ah, you see that that would imply that technically, we were right about it being indoctrination, since we saw the evidence of something that was supposed to be there, but was ultimately cut!
That means, that even if IT was meant to be totally scrapped, it would still be a viable option for them now, since some fans found the remnants of it!
That would make both sides right!

Modifié par estebanus, 29 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[schneeland]

@monrapias:
a few dozen pages of that, a few dozen pages of troll fighting, some nice motivationals and some speculation on various topic (among others: the nature of the crucicle and the possibility of it being a time travel device)
nice highlight, though: Arian posted a new version of his "conclusive ending with cutscenes only"-script.

[llbountyhunter]

estebanus wrote...

DJBare wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You know, a lot of people say that the final hours app disproves the IT, but ultimately, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, the way that they say that the sequence was dropped, NOT the idea, actually says a lot IMO.

They experimented with an endgame sequence, what we got was the left overs from the experiment, you cannot just rip out stuff without it breaking other stuff, so they had to go with what they had because time was running out, it was indoctrination, then it was not.

Ah, you see that that would imply that technically, we were right about it being indoctrination, since we saw the evidence of something that was supposed to be there, but was ultimately cut!
That means, that even if IT was meant to be totally scrapped, it would still be a viable option for them now, since some fans found the remnants of it!
That would make both sides right!

replying to  DJBare

actually when you experiment you dont atoumatically put it in with your soon-to-be-finished product. that would be counter-productive in case you decide to cut it, because then you have to "rip stuf out without it breaking other stuff".  

when they experimented with It, they would normally use a differect "set" and then bring them together. 

so that would mean that the cluse for IT are not in fact "remnants"

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 29 avril 2012 - 06:13 .

[estebanus]

schneeland wrote...

@monrapias:
a few dozen pages of that, a few dozen pages of troll fighting, some nice motivationals and some speculation on various topic (among others: the nature of the crucicle and the possibility of it being a time travel device)
nice highlight, though: Arian posted a new version of his "conclusive ending with cutscenes only"-script.

Arian's script was definitely the highlight of the day!

[spotlessvoid]

"You IDT guys are all crazy, Bioware is just lazy" Real life face to face trolled by my friend. Unfortunately for him, this was not a forum. Put him in a headlock and made him take back calling me crazy. Lucky for him he didn't let something about the Prothean AI slip out. Blood would definitely have been drawn.

[llbountyhunter]

monrapias wrote...

so nothing new? just the last 400 pages or so being about people aruging if it is IT or not?

thats actually pretty much what the last ~1800 pages consist of....

[balance5050]

So who wants to bet the "dropped" game play content, will be in the EC, or other subsequent DLC?

I wouldn't be surprised if the EC just refined the clues already there and add some other thing's, so that people would finally just be like "ok, I get it".

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

So who wants to bet the "dropped" game play content, will be in the EC, or other subsequent DLC?

I wouldn't be surprised if the EC just refined the clues already there and add some other thing's, so that people would finally just be like "ok, I get it".

If I understood you correctly, I think it should be a save bet. The EC will probably have some gameplay in it, since like IT, Bioware never really denied or confirmed gameplay.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[WinterCrow]

balance5050 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

WinterCrow wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw one said Shep is holding her stomach before the TIM scene: she does while coughing, it's like you're ill and have problems coughing or pain in the stomach while doing so, doesn't mean anything.

I've replayed the scene a few times now and he's not holding anything before the TIM scene. Maybe once while he gets up or so, but never while he walks, speaks or anything.

All 3 idle animations, the last one is Shep holding her stomach.

Regardless of that, the bullet hole and blood doesn't appear until after Anderson dies. Not that you don't already know that, I just want to emphasize that; before Anderson there's no bullethole, but after Anderson, there's a big bloody one.

That's exactly what I meant, MegumiAzusa, he/she does not "hold" his/her stomach, but merely touches it. You know, you're in pain all over the body, so you sometimes do that, but Shepard never holds his stomach like he's tryng to avoid bleeding.

The kind of "holding" I mean is the constant pressure you apply when a bullet pierced you and you want to stop the bleeding as much as you can. The holding the video shows is... well, nothing like that. And I would even point out she touches her right half, while the bullet hits her left half.

And then, as balance mentioned, there's the hole.

[balance5050]

spotlessvoid wrote...


"You IDT guys are all crazy, Bioware is just lazy" Real life face to face trolled by my friend. Unfortunately for him, this was not a forum. Put him in a headlock and made him take back calling me crazy. Lucky for him he didn't let something about the Prothean AI slip out. Blood would definitely have been drawn.

LOL! I hope you were dropping logic bombs the whole time- HE"S ALIVE AT THE END MAN!!! THE REAPERS HAD TO BE IN HIS MIND BECAUSE THE CATALYST'S IMAGE WAS JUST A MEMORY!!! (just to scratch the surface)

[estebanus]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So who wants to bet the "dropped" game play content, will be in the EC, or other subsequent DLC?

I wouldn't be surprised if the EC just refined the clues already there and add some other thing's, so that people would finally just be like "ok, I get it".

If I understood you correctly, I think it should be a save bet. The EC will probably have some gameplay in it, since like IT, Bioware never really denied or confirmed gameplay.

Bioware said that they hadn't decided yet if the EC would have gameplay or not, if I remember correctly.

Modifié par estebanus, 29 avril 2012 - 06:28 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Ah anyone so far noticed in the whole scene from the first moment you see the Guardian up to your choise there are sounds of footsteps in the background?

[estebanus]

balance5050 wrote...

So who wants to bet the "dropped" game play content, will be in the EC, or other subsequent DLC?

I wouldn't be surprised if the EC just refined the clues already there and add some other thing's, so that people would finally just be like "ok, I get it".

That's my current vibe right now too, yeah.