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[Arian Dynas]

NoSpin wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

Approaching 2000 pages.....will there be a party?

No, but there will be cake.

And psychological help available.

Everyone could use a little of both. Hopefully the cake...won't....be....a...lie. Sorry, I tried. 

Ah, but Ratmann was wrong about one thing.

CAEC is never a lie.

CAEC is eternal.

CAEC will remain long after you are gone.

[lex0r11]

There will be drinks too. Makes The counseling much easier.

[schneeland]

@lex0r:

Maybe we should invite our friends from the intoxication theory thread, then. Just as a gesture of good will

[Arian Dynas]

Arian Dynas wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Someone called?

Thank you Vaccine.

Er, um Lex0r.

Oh and since no one asked,

Vendetta, Victory, Vigil, Vaccine. 

[n00bsauce2010]

Any new arguments going?

[MaximizedAction]

1

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Urgs I really need to take notes, forgot most of the list of things I wanted to address with the video, but still:

• Notice that each voice and sound in both scenes has reverb added, but some exceptions:
  
  • When Hackett is calling Shep after Anderson dies his voice is clear. (8:50)
  • When Shep answers the answer is an overlay (again including reverb) to clear grunts.
• When the scene with the Guardian starts you hear footsteps (while you can see Shep isn't moving) followed by the Guardian moving towards Shep but with different sounds for the footsteps (both sounds actually play at the same time at some points) (good to see at 10:20, also can be heard at the end where Shep is standing, then I moved a bit to show that her footsteps are also different)
• Notice how the oily shadows getting scarce after you shoot Anderson, as if it was the wrong move by the Reapers as it had the inverse of the intended effect. (Shep is now pissed she had to shoot Anderson instead of seeing the power in controlling someone) This would also point to TIM isn't himself anymore as he's an "excellent judge of character".

I noticed something more. Unfortunately something that can again be dismissed as a bug, but I'll just give it a try (beware, this one reaches moon landing conspiracy levels):
The shadows of Anderson, TIM and Shepard. Look at this point of the vid:
1:27
It is a particularly interesting choice of camera position and angle since only see Anderson and TIM, we don't see Shepard here. Take note of where their resp. shadows are pointing to: In notably different directions.

Now look at Shepard's shadow:
2:37
It's pointing in the same direction as Anderson's. Also, at this moment we don't see the black webs that display indoctrinating processes.

And finally when TIM is dead, as Shepard approaches the console:
5:52

As a proof for the shadows' accuracy (since the game's shadows aren't the best ones to point exactly away from the light source):
Anderson and TIM standing both in the same line with respect to the central light source:
4:51
...still different directions.

So take this as you may. I thought it was worth mentioning, worth one or two speculations maybe on a Sunday.

[Uncle Jo]

Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

Uncle Jo wrote...

Hello Everyone! It was tough to catch up again...

Arian Dynas wrote...

A brand new re-write that I liked..

*snip*

Even better than the first text ! The whole Citadel sequence is well written ! You did cut it in two parts and make it works parallelly to what happens to Shep, so no flashbacks !

I have a question though : 

"If you Chose Synthesis, go to 10---> A pawn in a larger game"

Wasn't it originally the result arising from the Blue/control choice like in your first text ?

"If you chose Control with high EMS, go to 11---> Self-sacrifice"

Same here (it should have gone to the green ending)

Is it a  mistake or did you swap them on purpose ?

Thank you very much for the compliments,

First question on my part, how did the characterization of Bailey suit him? I'm not entirely sure if it worked well or not.

And yes, I did intentionally swap them, I came to the realization that thinking you coan control your enemy (when you yourself are being controlled) is still subliminally resisting, where as in Synthesis, you're actually turning a 180 on yourself and completely coming over to THEIR point of veiw, like Saren did. Damned by your own choices.

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

A brand new re-write

Nice! I hope my expectations for the EC-Endings are not too high now... I didn't want to read this, but couldn't resist. A few comments though:

Arian Dynas wrote...
[If your Citadel defense asset was NOT high enough, Bailey lets the grenade go off, killing the Banshee and shredding most of his own body in the process, we can hear Hackett on Bailey's radio shouting; "Bailey! Commander!" as Bailey crawls to the panel, opens the arms, and expires,]


BAILEY [muttered]: I did get to see it again...

The Banshee dies but Bailey survives? Bit of a stretch, but once is ok. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Arian Dynas wrote...
[If your Citadel Defense Asset was insultingly low, like, less than 10 kind of low, then Bailey dies the moment his grenade explodes and the Reapers win, standard game over, you suck as a player, do not pass go, do not collect $200.]

You mean "standard game over" as in "Critical Mission Failure", reload last save? I think that doesn't work here. The Player basically has to replay a major part of the game to "retry", so he could at least get a negative epilogue and credits with a message in the end: "That could have gone better... (Hint: The Citadel was too weak)" or something. I'm sure you'd come up with something better for that than I. Basically to show the player "These are the consequence of your decisions".

As for the reapers: I think it would be better if they were almost completely wiped out instead of just fleeing. I'm not saying there couldn't be the odd rogue reaper in a future game, but I'd say the reaper story should be finished along with Shepard's. And as you said earlier, there's enough potential for problems and conflicts in sequels.

 

Well.. Bailey doesn't exactly survive... just long enough to do something before bleeding out, mimicking what happened to Shepard, hence why in the Bailey survives ending, the Banshee gets shot and he drops the grenade.

True, at the time I was nearly dead from lack of sleep, and so was just kind of disgusted with anyone whom could get a citadel EMS that low (in fact, I think it is nearly literally impossible.) hence why I did, probably could come up with something better though.

To each their own.
*snip*

Bailey is a good guy who loves his job and can deal with it in a very understandingly way (I think of the son Thane). He's also a straight person and doesn't hesitate to say he thinks even with his superiors who he respects...
I didn't like him much the first time I saw him (maybe because of his haircut) but right after I talked to him, my opinion changed radically...
That given I think that your characterization accords pretty much to what he could say and suits well to his character.
The only sentence that I'm not 100% sure of it is the following one : "Seems like a pretty stupid idea, putting all of your eggs in one basket, Admiral."
Criticizing the Admiral twice (with the "you're out of everloving your mind") is perhaps a little too much, even for Bailey (did you base this lines upon the dialogue Shep/Bailey concerning the jailed Asari freak leader of Eclipse ?). Or maybe the gravity of the situation has exacerbated the C-Sec Commander's reaction...

Aside from this I find the sequence good staged and as I tried to picture your entire script, I didn't have any problem with it (Seq Shep/Bailey/Shep/Bailey...) ...It adds even more tension.... As we discussed about it earlier, the Citadel finds its place again in the story, not being anymore just a holster for a supergun... If this works as video is worth to be tried...
Just don't know if most of the player are ready to allow Bailey to press the red button though ...

Kudos to you Sir, I really enjoyed the read !

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 29 avril 2012 - 11:03 .

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

1

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Urgs I really need to take notes, forgot most of the list of things I wanted to address with the video, but still:

• Notice that each voice and sound in both scenes has reverb added, but some exceptions:
  
  • When Hackett is calling Shep after Anderson dies his voice is clear. (8:50)
  • When Shep answers the answer is an overlay (again including reverb) to clear grunts.
• When the scene with the Guardian starts you hear footsteps (while you can see Shep isn't moving) followed by the Guardian moving towards Shep but with different sounds for the footsteps (both sounds actually play at the same time at some points) (good to see at 10:20, also can be heard at the end where Shep is standing, then I moved a bit to show that her footsteps are also different)
• Notice how the oily shadows getting scarce after you shoot Anderson, as if it was the wrong move by the Reapers as it had the inverse of the intended effect. (Shep is now pissed she had to shoot Anderson instead of seeing the power in controlling someone) This would also point to TIM isn't himself anymore as he's an "excellent judge of character".

I noticed something more. Unfortunately something that can again be dismissed as a bug, but I'll just give it a try (beware, this one reaches moon landing conspiracy levels):
The shadows of Anderson, TIM and Shepard. Look at this point of the vid:
1:27
It is a particularly interesting choice of camera position and angle since only see Anderson and TIM, we don't see Shepard here. Take note of where their resp. shadows are pointing to: In notably different directions.

Now look at Shepard's shadow:
2:37
It's pointing in the same direction as Anderson's. Also, at this moment we don't see the black webs that display indoctrinating processes.

And finally when TIM is dead, as Shepard approaches the console:
5:52

As a proof for the shadows' accuracy (since the game's shadows aren't the best ones to point exactly away from the light source):
Anderson and TIM standing both in the same line with respect to the central light source:
4:51
...still different directions.

So take this as you may. I thought it was worth mentioning, worth one or two speculations maybe on a Sunday.

[*]Huh, weird.  One of the things that the Unreal engine does well is lighting, so I might be more inclined to think this is something significant.  Maybe not THAT significant, but still, I think something is up.

[Dwailing]

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

[balance5050]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

It's a slow day on the forums in general.

[Dwailing]

balance5050 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

It's a slow day on the forums in general.

Well then, I guess it won't matter if I take a break for something ever so slightly more important, homework. 

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

I think one of the reasons the thread is more silent now is that we don't really find anything new, since a lot of the main evidence probably has been found!

Maybe we should go on and analyze and discuss the already found evidence more thoroughly?
Just a thought!

[schneeland]

Dwailing wrote...

[....]

Well then, I guess it won't matter if I take a break for something ever so slightly more important, homework. 

Nah, homework is overrated

[Big G13]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

I think it's my fault. Every time I show up I read a few pages and then, ......... silence. Either that or "W" is in here being an a**.

[schneeland]

Well, anyway, time for sleep mode.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Applying Aarian's law of conservation of details; Why would that mako-like thing be there on the citadel? Lazy Bioware would have saved time by not putting it there, as it happened, they put it on the exact place the overturned mako was before you entered the beam.

[MaximizedAction]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

I think one of the reasons the thread is more silent now is that we don't really find anything new, since a lot of the main evidence probably has been found!

Maybe we should go on and analyze and discuss the already found evidence more thoroughly?
Just a thought!

How about we look into what TIM says on the Citadel?
With IT in mind, we assume that Anderson and TIM are manifestations of two sides of Shepard: the indoctrinated one(TIM) and the resisting one(Anderson).
Then how would we make sense of the following two statements from TIM:

[on how controling Reapers being humanity's way to evolve]
"I've dedicated my live to understanding the Reaprs" and

[on being indoctrinated]
"The two of you so self-righteous. Do you thing a power like this comes easy? There are sacrifices"

If they are not who they appear to be, with these statements, who could TIM really represent?
Shepard? Doesn't seem so, Shepard never wanted to control the Reapers before. And how does the latter piece of dialog fit with all of this? It does seem like something TIM would say.

[Arian Dynas]

Uncle Jo wrote...
*snip*

]Bailey is a good guy who loves his job and can deal with it in a very understandingly way (I think of the son Thane). He's also a straight person and doesn't hesitate to say he thinks even with his superiors who he respects...
I didn't like him much the first time I saw him (maybe because of his haircut) but right after I talked to him, my opinion changed radically...
That given I think that your characterization accords pretty much to what he could say and suits well to his character.
The only sentence that I'm not 100% sure of it is the following one : "Seems like a pretty stupid idea, putting all of your eggs in one basket, Admiral."
Criticizing the Admiral twice (with the "you're out of everloving your mind") is perhaps a little too much, even for Bailey (did you base this lines upon the dialogue Shep/Bailey concerning the jailed Asari freak leader of Eclipse ?). Or maybe the gravity of the situation has exacerbated the C-Sec Commander's reaction...

Aside from this I find the sequence good staged and as I tried to picture your entire script, I didn't have any problem with it (Seq Shep/Bailey/Shep/Bailey...) ...It adds even more tension.... As we discussed about it earlier, the Citadel finds its place again in the story, not being anymore just a holster for a supergun... If this works as video is worth to be tried...
Just don't know if most of the player are ready to allow Bailey to press the red button though ...

Kudos to you Sir, I really enjoyed the read !

Ok questions and answers, no I did not base it off that scene, but perhaps subconciously it did influence the characterization of the good Commander Armando Bailey for me. I would suppose that being faced down with literal armageddon (look up the original meaning, basically a corruption of Meggido, which was supposedly supposed to be the site of the last battle between the forces of good and evil) would put him under a good bit of stress, so I doubt politeness would be the first thing on his mind.

Well thank you, and personally at this point I kind of realized, Shep's story is done, he's done everything, he broke men into the Citadel, faced down Harbinger in a battle of wits and won (or lost depending on your choice) and then won the battle for his very soul, literarily speaking, there isn't much more he could do than that, hence why in the end, Shepard ends up playing Aragon to Bailey's Frodo.

Which in the end, makes him even more self-sacrificing, and heroic.

So, thank you for your thoughts.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 30 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[Arian Dynas]

pirate1802 wrote...

Applying Aarian's law of conservation of details; Why would that mako-like thing be there on the citadel? Lazy Bioware would have saved time by not putting it there, as it happened, they put it on the exact place the overturned mako was before you entered the beam.

Thank you, I beat into your guys' heads enough someone listens, some of  you got it, but plenty seem to forget, always remember the law of conservation of detail, basically, IF SOMETHING IS NOT IMPORTANT, THEY WILL NOT SHOW IT. If something IS unimportant and they show it, they will show a reason WHY they showed it, even if it was unimportant, as a Red Herring to add dramatic tension.

That, and this being a videogame, meaning COMPUTER GENERATED, unlike a movie, there is NOTHING THERE THAT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE, unless it is a very obvious bug, like the ghostly Keeper, which is a bug, but not the child-like scream or the infinite gun, which required effort on the part of the dev team to make.

[EpyonX3]

pirate1802 wrote...

Applying Aarian's law of conservation of details; Why would that mako-like thing be there on the citadel? Lazy Bioware would have saved time by not putting it there, as it happened, they put it on the exact place the overturned mako was before you entered the beam.

Are you referring to the circles under the platforms?

Those are actually Cable Tube Ports. If you look behind you just before making the decision you'l notice the tubes connecting to several of these. I don't see the similarity of those objects other than the fact that they're round.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, is it just me, or did the thread kind of go dead?

I think one of the reasons the thread is more silent now is that we don't really find anything new, since a lot of the main evidence probably has been found!

Maybe we should go on and analyze and discuss the already found evidence more thoroughly?
Just a thought!

How about we look into what TIM says on the Citadel?
With IT in mind, we assume that Anderson and TIM are manifestations of two sides of Shepard: the indoctrinated one(TIM) and the resisting one(Anderson).
Then how would we make sense of the following two statements from TIM:

[on how controling Reapers being humanity's way to evolve]
"I've dedicated my live to understanding the Reaprs" and

[on being indoctrinated]
"The two of you so self-righteous. Do you thing a power like this comes easy? There are sacrifices"

If they are not who they appear to be, with these statements, who could TIM really represent?
Shepard? Doesn't seem so, Shepard never wanted to control the Reapers before. And how does the latter piece of dialog fit with all of this? It does seem like something TIM would say.

Note he never said "Control" in the sentences you used, but "understand" Shepard HAS dedicated his life to fighting the Reapers, and to fight someone, you have to understand them. And this is represented by the fragment of Shep's mind dedicated to understanding and control, the indoctrinated part.

That, and a dissociative personality can, and will refer to other personalities as seperate people.

[MegumiAzusa]

Which childlike scream?

[Arian Dynas]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Which childlike scream?

On Earth, when the shuttle is blown up with the child in it, if you have the music off, or turned down low, you can hear a single child scream once, far longer than he should be able to, especially through a sealed shuttle containing nearly 15 people.

It's also the only ambient sound playing at that point, anything else is music.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 30 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Note he never said "Control" in the sentences you used, but "understand" Shepard HAS dedicated his life to fighting the Reapers, and to fight someone, you have to understand them. And this is represented by the fragment of Shep's mind dedicated to understanding and control, the indoctrinated part.

That, and a dissociative personality can, and will refer to other personalities as seperate people.

Also in any conversation with a Reaper Shep asks why the Reapers reap.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[estebanus]

Well, it's getting late here in Germany, so I think I'll be signing off for now.

See you all tomorrow!