57139 réponses à ce sujet

[lex0r11]

Hm? You said something about cookies? I'm in.

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

Hm? You said something about cookies? I'm in.

*Hands out cookies for all*

[llbountyhunter]

Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hm? You said something about cookies? I'm in.

*Hands out cookies for all*

I have cookies disabled...

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

Woah, thank you for the effort!
You should get ten cookies!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[Rosewind]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hm? You said something about cookies? I'm in.

*Hands out cookies for all*

I have cookies disabled...

How about biscuits?

[lex0r11]

[Uncle Jo]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

I agree with everything you say. The Citadel itself is an indoctrination platform that might make the races that settle there lethargic and less prone to considering any kind of threat. It gives the Reapers an edge because the population is brainwashed into sheep collected in a pen waiting to be sheared and slaughtered.

Agree with you too. Given that it was built by the Reapers and originally the Relay they used to start their invasion (and the Council Siege), there is almost no more room for doubt. Thanks also for the reply!

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I posted this in Makrys's thread about their fascination with IT. Wanted to repost it here.

"OP sounds like me three minutes after the credits rolled. ' That little pipsqueek is lying his pants off. '

People who don't get I.T., don't like it, or just won't believe it have their reasons and I'm not going to excoriate them for it. I can respect their opinion and still think their out of their minds in denial.

Both camps think the other is in denial. This is the "SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE" that Bioware wanted, but obviously we will find out what the true interpretation is eventually. Unlike the argument between atheists and religion (which Anti-IT like to compare this argument to), we really can find out who is right and who is wrong. In fact, we've already been promised an explanation by a third party who we might as well compare to God or the Universe, since they are the creators of the fictional Mass Effect universe.

We can get answers (eventually) because we can question the creators directly. However, the difference is that in our universe (unless something universe-changing happens) the jury will always be out on the meaning of life and whether there is a God. It will always be about faith, unlike the IDT which is built on evidence. Not only that, but much of the evidence is actually so damning that you have to do mental gymnastics to ignore it. I won't even go into the active denial of literary elements.

At any rate, excellent post, OP. The problem is that many people don't think that deeply about things in media like you and I do. The more you explain to them, the more it seems to infuriate and confuse them. I thought gamers wanted games to be accepted as a medium of art and this interpretation of the ending (if true) would cement that or at least give it a nod. Why deny a storytelling technique possibility in a story-driven game where our choices are supposed to matter, especially at the part where it matters the most? I just don't understand the disconnect, honestly. "

Then someone named Mobius-Silent posted below me and said this in response to Makyrs's statement that " Whether you believe in it or not, you have to admit, its pretty neat. " :

"Not at all. all of the "evidence" I see is either deliberate misunderstanding, outright falehoods or denial.
I.T. consists of the same mental tricks that start religions, it's not "compelling" its not "neat" its _really_ forced fanfic. Fine and dandy for "I like to think of the ending like this" but really _really_ annoying when it's presented as "OMG BIoware are geniuses look at all the PROOF why can't you see its brilliant! you just don't get .I.T, lol you're just in denial!"

Oh hell, looks like I've just posted directly under one of them... great"

To which I replied:

"Again, both camps say the other is in denial. Neither of us have a claim to say we're completely right. We have to wait for Bioware to say. In that way, it is nothing like a religion, conspiracy, or anything like that. It is literalists taking the story for what it is and others looking at the story to see if there is something deeper. Thank you for proving my point."

Welcome back man, I've met Moebius-Silent, man's a superior little dick****ter, don't worry about the scum. Make yourself comfortable again, I wrote a new script, feel free to check it out.

Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hm? You said something about cookies? I'm in.

*Hands out cookies for all*

 *nom* 

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 30 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Uncle Jo wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

I agree with everything you say. The Citadel itself is an indoctrination platform that might make the races that settle there lethargic and less prone to considering any kind of threat. It gives the Reapers an edge because the population is brainwashed into sheep collected in a pen waiting to be sheared and slaughtered.

Agree with you too. Given that it was built by the Reapers and originally the Relay they used to start their invasion (and the Council Siege), there is almost no more room for doubt. Thanks also for the reply!

Vega noticed it too
"It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right."

[lex0r11]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

So they have one shadow at all times? Not multiple shadows like in a stadium? Also, is the light source visible, and are there any moving parts outside the platform?

[MegumiAzusa]

lex0r11 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

So they have one shadow at all times? Not multiple shadows like in a stadium? Also, is the light source visible, and are there any moving parts outside the platform?

One shadow, and it's always the same.
Light sources aren't visible, TIM's and Anderson's shadow even cross sometimes.
The big dark grey thing in the pictures is the shadow caused by the console btw.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

I agree with everything you say. The Citadel itself is an indoctrination platform that might make the races that settle there lethargic and less prone to considering any kind of threat. It gives the Reapers an edge because the population is brainwashed into sheep collected in a pen waiting to be sheared and slaughtered.

Agree with you too. Given that it was built by the Reapers and originally the Relay they used to start their invasion (and the Council Siege), there is almost no more room for doubt. Thanks also for the reply!

Vega noticed it too
"It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right."

Also, besides having suddenly dyed their hair, Bailey and Uduna both seem almost lethargic. The Cidadel did have a strange vibe to it. So quiet, it was an extreme contrast to the rest of the galaxy.
But it's established by someone on the Cit that it is like a retreat from the horror, a save heaven. At the same time, on wonders how the most important place in the galaxy and the prime target of the Reapers (it was for Sovereign) hasn't been invaded from the very start.

[Legion109]

@Rosewind - I'll try to think up some with more races that one just kind of popped into my head.

@EpyonX3 - Personally I think Turians kick ass but sadly my brain goes where it wants to and leaves the rest of me behind.

So here's my next Lyrical little.

Reaper, Reaper, Rachni Keeper
EDI has such nice new beepers.

- If it ain't broke smack it with a stick and it will be -

[balance5050]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

Good work! These shadows were bugging me ever since someone mentioned them yesterday.

[NeoDobby]

lex0r11 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

So they have one shadow at all times? Not multiple shadows like in a stadium? Also, is the light source visible, and are there any moving parts outside the platform?

1:47: There are many lightsources above TIM, which would create multiple shadows - it seems they are arranged in a circle or at least a half-circle facing the entrance.

2:24: Here we have the opposite side, multiple light-sources further away, but lower, arranged around the entrance.

None of them seem to be the light source for any of the shadows. I don't see anything moving.

[lex0r11]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

[..]

Shadows move quite a bit.

So they have one shadow at all times? Not multiple shadows like in a stadium? Also, is the light source visible, and are there any moving parts outside the platform?

One shadow, and it's always the same.
Light sources aren't visible, TIM's and Anderson's shadow even cross sometimes.
The big dark grey thing in the pictures is the shadow caused by the console btw.

Okay, that's too strange and potentially not a coincidence.

MaximizedAction wrote...

[...]

Also, besides having suddenly dyed their hair, Bailey and Uduna both seem almost lethargic. The Cidadel did have a strange vibe to it. So quiet, it was an extreme contrast to the rest of the galaxy. But it's established by someone on the Cit that it is like a retreat from the horror, a save heaven. At the same time, on wonders how the most important place in the galaxy and the prime target of the Reapers (it was for Sovereign) hasn't been
invaded from the very start.

That is so true it's not even funny anymore. Okay, they couldn't travel directly to the Citadel because Sovereign failed, but they got to Earth eventually. So why not attack the Place that holds it all together, like cutting of the head of the galaxy?

Man theses reapers are stupid.

Modifié par lex0r11, 30 avril 2012 - 05:12 .

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Shadows move quite a bit.

So they have one shadow at all times? Not multiple shadows like in a stadium? Also, is the light source visible, and are there any moving parts outside the platform?

One shadow, and it's always the same.
Light sources aren't visible, TIM's and Anderson's shadow even cross sometimes.
The big dark grey thing in the pictures is the shadow caused by the console btw.

I think I actually saw a sort of main light source (not the console). From the platform you see the various streets on the wards arms. But one seems to be expecially bright, as when the camera focuses on TIM he seems to through a noticible shadow into the cam (thoughout the whole game I noticed this gfx only in this scene). Check it out!
I think shadow from the console shows the direction of the brightest street. Since I assume this platform to be in the right below the coucil tower, it is in the middle. But every street on the wards should throw a shadow, why then only one shadow for the console?

If the console were indeed the main lightsource, then the shadow from the console doesn't make sense. Since the console isn't that high, the shadow would be very short. It's like the shadow from trees that is at its longest during sunrise and sunset.

The shadow also points towards where the beam was with respect to Shepard on Earth...hmmm

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

The shadow also points towards where the beam was with respect to Shepard on Earth...hmmm

No, for that being true it would have be parallel to the other two lines that I draw in to represent some of the floor texture.

[Uncle Jo]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

I agree with everything you say. The Citadel itself is an indoctrination platform that might make the races that settle there lethargic and less prone to considering any kind of threat. It gives the Reapers an edge because the population is brainwashed into sheep collected in a pen waiting to be sheared and slaughtered.

Agree with you too. Given that it was built by the Reapers and originally the Relay they used to start their invasion (and the Council Siege), there is almost no more room for doubt. Thanks also for the reply!

Vega noticed it too
"It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right."

Also, besides having suddenly dyed their hair, Bailey and Uduna both seem almost lethargic. The Cidadel did have a strange vibe to it. So quiet, it was an extreme contrast to the rest of the galaxy.
But it's established by someone on the Cit that it is like a retreat from the horror, a save heaven. At the same time, on wonders how the most important place in the galaxy and the prime target of the Reapers (it was for Sovereign) hasn't been invaded from the very start.

@MegumiAzusa and MaximizedAction

Absolutely true. The atmosphere in the Citadel was the thing that bugged me the most... They were really living in pure denial which can not be only related to fear and will to forget...

[ExtendedCut]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

An idea came to mind just now: the Catalyst says that he created the Reapers to "save" the organics from the destruction by the synthetics. But, if what Sovereign says is true, that by using the relays the organics races evolve in the way the Reapers want, it means that the Reapers created the problem they want to solve?

I think that knowing why the first cycle happened would enlight a lot of things.

You know, I had never considered that.  You're right - if the Reapers are "designed" to stop the organics from getting to the point of technological advancement that they can create their own synthetics, and therefore those synthetics will eventually destroy them (i.e. Starbrat's logic), then WHY would the Reapers give organics advanced technology (mass relays) that would only serve to increase and/or speed up the process of technological advancement?

Makes no sense.  Good find.

[spotlessvoid]

I think the claim that Bioware isn't good enough at writing to come up with indoctrination twist can be dismissed. Regardless of whether you take the endings at face value or not, it's plain to see that indoctrination at least occurs during the TIM sequence. Oily shadows, reaper growls, Shepard losing control and shooting Anderson. Even without all the other evidence, that scene alone is highly suggestive that the end was an indoctrination

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

The shadow also points towards where the beam was with respect to Shepard on Earth...hmmm

No, for that being true it would have be parallel to the other two lines that I draw in to represent some of the floor texture.

The direction of the shadow doesn't really matter. It's rather the length, however, indicates a main light source which is far away.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 avril 2012 - 05:24 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Uncle Jo wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

I agree with everything you say. The Citadel itself is an indoctrination platform that might make the races that settle there lethargic and less prone to considering any kind of threat. It gives the Reapers an edge because the population is brainwashed into sheep collected in a pen waiting to be sheared and slaughtered.

Agree with you too. Given that it was built by the Reapers and originally the Relay they used to start their invasion (and the Council Siege), there is almost no more room for doubt. Thanks also for the reply!

Vega noticed it too
"It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right."

Also, besides having suddenly dyed their hair, Bailey and Uduna both seem almost lethargic. The Cidadel did have a strange vibe to it. So quiet, it was an extreme contrast to the rest of the galaxy.
But it's established by someone on the Cit that it is like a retreat from the horror, a save heaven. At the same time, on wonders how the most important place in the galaxy and the prime target of the Reapers (it was for Sovereign) hasn't been invaded from the very start.

@MegumiAzusa and MaximizedAction

Absolutely true. The atmosphere in the Citadel was the thing that bugged me the most... They were really living in pure denial which can not be only related to fear and will to forget...

Also the choice to increase the population on the citadel (allowing more refugees) and giving arms to civilians both result in negative EMS? (Not much and by the text you get not much related but it's suspicious.)

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[MegumiAzusa]

ExtendedCut wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

An idea came to mind just now: the Catalyst says that he created the Reapers to "save" the organics from the destruction by the synthetics. But, if what Sovereign says is true, that by using the relays the organics races evolve in the way the Reapers want, it means that the Reapers created the problem they want to solve?

I think that knowing why the first cycle happened would enlight a lot of things.

You know, I had never considered that.  You're right - if the Reapers are "designed" to stop the organics from getting to the point of technological advancement that they can create their own synthetics, and therefore those synthetics will eventually destroy them (i.e. Starbrat's logic), then WHY would the Reapers give organics advanced technology (mass relays) that would only serve to increase and/or speed up the process of technological advancement?

Makes no sense.  Good find.

They give them technology so they don't have to research it for themselves thus stopping them to research a technology that the Reapers could not handle.

[lex0r11]

Legion109 wrote...

@Rosewind - I'll try to think up some with more races that one just kind of popped into my head.

@EpyonX3 - Personally I think Turians kick ass but sadly my brain goes where it wants to and leaves the rest of me behind.

So here's my next Lyrical little.

Reaper, Reaper, Rachni Keeper
EDI has such nice new beepers.

- If it ain't broke smack it with a stick and it will be -

I think you'll have to explain "beepers" to her.