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[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

https://encrypted-tb...VkbVhrC3At5W3mz

[balance5050]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

snip

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Modifié par balance5050, 30 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

*snip*

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Granted I only came in like halfway, but from what I gather, he doesnt like being called a literalist, but doesnt actually know why, so has to come up with some justification, instead of just admitting he doesnt like the word.

[Simon_Says]

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

There's a difference between "spending two years and enough cash to field an army to restore and reactivate dead tissue" (Way out there but plausible given the setting.) and "jump into a giant beam of whatsit, triggering explosions throughout the galaxy that fundamentally replaces the basic building blocks of all organic and synthetic life, no matter what species, at a rate faster than the speed of the Normandy in a relay jump." (Are you frelling serious?)

Modifié par Simon_Says, 30 avril 2012 - 07:20 .

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

[ExtendedCut]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

*snip*

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Granted I only came in like halfway, but from what I gather, he doesnt like being called a literalist, but doesnt actually know why, so has to come up with some justification, instead of just admitting he doesnt like the word.

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the simple fact that you guys are debating this with such "enthusiasm" mean something about the ending? 

I'm not sure whether that supports IT or just a poor ending - but if there actually was a strong metaphorical meaning meant to be conveyed by the end sequence, then it was obviously poorly done.  If that was the case, and Bioware meant to wrap the trilogy up with a strong metaphorical message to provide closure, then wouldn't it require that most players clearly understand that meaning in order for it to have been successful? 

Just by reading these last few posts proves that it was not successful.

[balance5050]

Simon_Says wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

There's a difference between "spending two years and enough cash to field an army to restore and reactivate dead tissue" (way out there) and "jump into a giant beam of whatsit, triggering explosions throughout the galaxy that fundamentally replaces the basic building blocks of all organic and synthetic life, no matter what species, at a rate faster than the speed of the Normandy in a relay jump." (are you frelling serious?)

I thought it was so dumb when they showed that even plants have that same green circuitry pattern. Are we gonna get zapped everytime we eat a salad now? Are veins now wires? What parts of the Geth become organic? Do simple electronic toys have the right to vote?

CAN I CHANGE THE COLOR OF MY FACE?!?!

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

[estebanus]

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

*snip*

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Granted I only came in like halfway, but from what I gather, he doesnt like being called a literalist, but doesnt actually know why, so has to come up with some justification, instead of just admitting he doesnt like the word.

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the simple fact that you guys are debating this with such "enthusiasm" mean something about the ending? 

I'm not sure whether that supports IT or just a poor ending - but if there actually was a strong metaphorical meaning meant to be conveyed by the end sequence, then it was obviously poorly done.  If that was the case, and Bioware meant to wrap the trilogy up with a strong metaphorical message to provide closure, then wouldn't it require that most players clearly understand that meaning in order for it to have been successful? 

Just by reading these last few posts proves that it was not successful.

Lots of speculation!

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

Indeed, if you considered how much energy and computing power it would take to accomplish such a thing, you would see that it simply can't happen in this dimension.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

LOL! No, he's creating a line between things that are and aren't possible with the pre established rules of the ME universe.

[Simon_Says]

SubAstris wrote...

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

"Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

True enough, but that doesn't make it not-magic.

We have no idea what the hell really happened in synthesis, or what the full consequences were. We're supposed to buy it without explanation.

Therefore it's as good as magic.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

IT or not I have to agree with this here. Even if it were possible, it'd be very likely that everyone would have died during the process.

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

No, it's called advanced stem cell and synthetic treatment. "Lazerus Project"

Just as the Crucible is an advanced technology

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

LOL! No, he's creating a line between things that are and aren't possible with the pre established rules of the ME universe.

Or, in short: If it's not in the codex, it's bullsh*t, aka .

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 avril 2012 - 07:37 .

[BatmanTurian]

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

*snip*

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Granted I only came in like halfway, but from what I gather, he doesnt like being called a literalist, but doesnt actually know why, so has to come up with some justification, instead of just admitting he doesnt like the word.

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the simple fact that you guys are debating this with such "enthusiasm" mean something about the ending? 

I'm not sure whether that supports IT or just a poor ending - but if there actually was a strong metaphorical meaning meant to be conveyed by the end sequence, then it was obviously poorly done.  If that was the case, and Bioware meant to wrap the trilogy up with a strong metaphorical message to provide closure, then wouldn't it require that most players clearly understand that meaning in order for it to have been successful? 

Just by reading these last few posts proves that it was not successful.

It wasn't successful for a certain group of people. The fact that this thread is almost 2000 pages strong is indicative that it was successful on some level.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 30 avril 2012 - 07:37 .

[ExtendedCut]

Simon_Says wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

"Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

True enough, but that doesn't make it not-magic.

We have no idea what the hell really happened in synthesis, or what the full consequences were. We're supposed to buy it without explanation.

Therefore it's as good as magic.

Agreed. 

Plus that fact that Synthesis seems to be exactly what the Reapers ultimate goal is, correct?  Making human "slurry" to turn into new forms of Reapers - part organic and part synthetic.  And husks are basically part human, part synthetic, right? 

And yet, the Reapers, with the most advanced technology that we know of, still have to come all the way from Dark Space to earth and manually harvest all these people in order to convert them.  But then suddenly we are supposed to believe that there is actually "secret" technology that can do the same basic thing in Synthesis ("huskify" people, but in a good way, I guess) in a matter of seconds.  I don't buy that as "advanced technology" because it totally contradicts the limitations of technology that the ME world has set in place.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

Nope. Cybernetic implants are things that have been established in the series.

Space magic is not.

Its like if randomly during a fight, a Marauder pulled out a wand, yelled "Expelliarmus!" and suddenly our guns were flying out of our hands.

You can try passing the wand off as a hyper-advanced Reaper technology stick, but that doesnt change the fact that its just a wooden stick that should be incapable of doing what it does.

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Or, in short: If it's not in the codex, it's bullsh*t.

I even like what the codex says the crucible will do more than what the kid says.

The codex makes it sound like we were just creating a gigantic laser sniper rifle, I thought the ending was going to be a simple turret sequence of grand proportions.

Modifié par balance5050, 30 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[HellishFiend]

I think the problem here is that SubAstris truly wishes that he could also have luminescent lines of code flowing all over his body and have a synthorganic squeeze. We're ruining his ability to daydream about it by suggesting that it's too far beyond the suspension of disbelief by calling it space magic.

[Simon_Says]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Or, in short: If it's not in the codex, it's bullsh*t.

I even like what the codex says the crucible will do more than what the kid says.

The codex makes it sound like we were just creating a gigantic laser sniper rifle, I though the ending was going to be a simple turret sequence of grand proportions.

Oh God. I hate turret sections, ME3 no exception...

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Or, in short: If it's not in the codex, it's bullsh*t.

I even like what the codex says the crucible will do more than what the kid says.

The codex makes it sound like we were just creating a gigantic laser sniper rifle, I though the ending was going to be a simple turret sequence of grand proportions.

Same here... No matter how much mystery was established around the Crucible, ME3 is still an Action RPG.

[ExtendedCut]

BatmanTurian wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I know, but that is not like the endings. The endings are ambiguous (for now) but we know what happened after Shepard died and was ressurrected through science fiction methods. The two story elements cannot be compared.

That depends on how you take the endings, whether at face value or not. Equally, the procedure to heal Shepard could be adequately called "space magic".

*snip*

Seconded, it's hard to debate someone who has no idea what they are trying to say.

Granted I only came in like halfway, but from what I gather, he doesnt like being called a literalist, but doesnt actually know why, so has to come up with some justification, instead of just admitting he doesnt like the word.

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the simple fact that you guys are debating this with such "enthusiasm" mean something about the ending? 

I'm not sure whether that supports IT or just a poor ending - but if there actually was a strong metaphorical meaning meant to be conveyed by the end sequence, then it was obviously poorly done.  If that was the case, and Bioware meant to wrap the trilogy up with a strong metaphorical message to provide closure, then wouldn't it require that most players clearly understand that meaning in order for it to have been successful? 

Just by reading these last few posts proves that it was not successful.

It wasn't successful for a certain group of people. The fact that this thread is almost 2000 pages strong is indicative that it was successful on some level.

Yeah.  That's my point exactly.  If the ending is actually literal (i.e. IT does not exist), and the closure we are supposed to feel is a more "artistic" metaphorical/emotional ending, rather than being spelled-out for us, then it failed because nobody agrees that is the case.

[balance5050]

HellishFiend wrote...

I think the problem here is that SubAstris truly wishes that he could also have luminescent lines of code flowing all over his body and have a synthorganic squeeze. We're ruining his ability to daydream about it by suggesting that it's too far beyond the suspension of disbelief by calling it space magic.

Then he should create a pro synthesis thread and see how succesful it is.

LOL! or better yet he should write a fanfic about a post-synthesis Galaxy! It wouldn't be cheesy at all.<_<

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

I dont care how advanced the tech is, a green light that makes everyone half robot is and always will be bull**** space magic.

And you are therefore creating an arbitrary line between "space magic" and advanced technology

Nope. Cybernetic implants are things that have been established in the series.

Space magic is not.

Its like if randomly during a fight, a Marauder pulled out a wand, yelled "Expelliarmus!" and suddenly our guns were flying out of our hands.

You can try passing the wand off as a hyper-advanced Reaper technology stick, but that doesnt change the fact that its just a wooden stick that should be incapable of doing what it does.

We are not talking cybernetic implants, we are talking complete reconstruction from a totally devastated body that to a modern sensibility has no hope in hell of happening. It is, therefore, using your definition, space magic