57139 réponses à ce sujet

[marcelo_sdk]

We have a release date or we still only have "this summer"?

Modifié par marcelo_sdk, 30 avril 2012 - 08:22 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Money got Cerberus all the technology required (hell from what we saw there was an entire space station dedicated to bringing Shepard back) as well as the doctors and scientists necesary.

Now lets break this down, piece by piece what was involved in Shepards return.

Cloning, an esteablished part of the ME universe as it was used on Virmire with the Krogan meaning they the technology to clone entire beeings, but memories are obviusly not retained in a clone.

Implants. Vital part of Mass Effect especially in regards to Biotics, but also everyday use. Joker even mentions having implants that help him fly the ship. Common technology and wide use.

These two alone can rebuild a body from practically anything, but the mind is what is the biggest problem...now wait it is not, the brain was relatively intact and could be revived for the body.

Now how was it intact? Well it was intact due to futuristic armor and barriers protecting sheaprd during descend which is unfeasible at all. If the armor can stand the heat upon reentry, impact will always happen with a set maximum velocity. If the armor is not splintered completely from the impact, most noteably the helmet the, head inside should be dead from the blow, but relatively instact which is what happened.

Rewriting DNA to accomodate something which does not have DNA through the  pulsing of a green light and on galactic basis within only a few minutes (seconds even) however is the kind of stuff any Sci-Fi reader would just laugh at before closing the book unless it was somekind of deply established technology.

[Simon_Says]

Guys just quit it. Subastris is convinced and I suspect he's getting a kick out of riling us up. Otherwise he'd have left long ago.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 30 avril 2012 - 08:21 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

But at the same time Javik says his people were fighting the reapers for one hundred years. I'm sure that there are vicrtories here and there but the strategy of using your enemy's people as your army is a solid one that can't really be beat.

On top of that the reapers don't need supplies, bases and home territory. They go to planets, clean them out and move on. You could say that it's the only military in the galaxy that has ever deployed that tactic, making everyone severely unprepared for such aggression.

So when they say conventional means, they refer to wars that were waged against other organics in the past. Even the geth were hinging at defeat through conventional methods.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

[marcelo_sdk]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

They only needed to have Shepard kill Harbinger, they could have left the other reapers for ME4, and I would have been more satisfied. Heck the next 3 games could have taken place during the reaper war and I would have been happy.

The idea of Shepard uniting the galaxy to conventionally beat the reapers is attractive to me. No need for a crucible, we could have had some giant space mechs by now if it weren't for the crucible.

They straight up say in the codex that four dreadnoughts can take town one Sovereign-class Reaper (less if they are equipped with Thanix cannons), and a cruiser or even a group of fighters can take down a Reaper Destroyer.

The Reapers are way less powerful than people think they are.

I agree, the Reaper war against the Protheans, who had a more advanced technology than our cycle, lasted for centuries, why now would last a few months? They could make an entire new trilogy, perhaps with a new main character, about the war. 

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

But at the same time Javik says his people were fighting the reapers for one hundred years. I'm sure that there are vicrtories here and there but the strategy of using your enemy's people as your army is a solid one that can't really be beat.

On top of that the reapers don't need supplies, bases and home territory. They go to planets, clean them out and move on. You could say that it's the only military in the galaxy that has ever deployed that tactic, making everyone severely unprepared for such aggression.

So when they say conventional means, they refer to wars that were waged against other organics in the past. Even the geth were hinging at defeat through conventional methods.

We are in a much better position then the Protheans were, and we have Thannix cannons. The ground war is simply to keep our people alive, but the real war is happening in space where the reapers are. If the reapers are dead maybe they can no longer control their husks.

[ExtendedCut]

BatmanTurian wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It wasn't successful for a certain group of people. The fact that this thread is almost 2000 pages strong is indicative that it was successful on some level.

Yeah.  That's my point exactly.  If the ending is actually literal (i.e. IT does not exist), and the closure we are supposed to feel is a more "artistic" metaphorical/emotional ending, rather than being spelled-out for us, then it failed because nobody agrees that is the case.

Alright, I'm trying to understand. You're saying that it can't be literal because it doesn't make sense without applying metaphors, right?

I was just trying to understand what SubAstris was conveying in this ongoing arguement.  Basically, he said that there may be a metaphorical ending (something to do with a comparison to Jesus' resurrection), even if IT doesn't exist.  In other words, we would get closure from the literal ending by comparing Shepard to Jesus, and therefore we, the players, would be happy with Shepard as a great martyr and be "content"-feeling about the ending.

I'm saying that if Bioware did intend to do a literal ending with an overlying metaphorical motif about comparison to Jesus or something as SubAstris said, then they did a very poor job of it, because almost nobody got that meaning out of the ending. 

IT, on the other hand, is not a metaphorical ending, it is a (for lack of a better word) deductive ending, because it points to a different ending by utilizing the clues we have been given. 

Therefore, IMO, if a literal ending with an overlying metaphorical ending didn't work, then either Bioware totally botched the ending, or had something different in mind.  Considering that, so far, Bioware has been excellent, then IT makes the most sense.

Okay, sorry, that was a lot of words to not really say much of anything...

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

But at the same time Javik says his people were fighting the reapers for one hundred years. I'm sure that there are vicrtories here and there but the strategy of using your enemy's people as your army is a solid one that can't really be beat.

On top of that the reapers don't need supplies, bases and home territory. They go to planets, clean them out and move on. You could say that it's the only military in the galaxy that has ever deployed that tactic, making everyone severely unprepared for such aggression.

So when they say conventional means, they refer to wars that were waged against other organics in the past. Even the geth were hinging at defeat through conventional methods.

Well, the Reapers seized control of the Citadel in Javik's cycle, and used it to disable the entire Relay system.

If you cant get your fleets to group up, the scattered ships are going to be easy to take out. Javik even said there was no final battle in his cycle.

I figured the only reason it took hundreds of years for Javik's cycle to lose is because the Reapers destroyed all their ships at the beginning of the invasion, then took their time harvesting all of the populated planets.

He claimed we had hope for a future, which his cycle never did. His cycle was building a Crucible too, so I dont see whats different about us that would imply we had hope for a future when his cycle didnt, other than the fact that all our fleets can still travel and meet up with eachother, and a large chunk of our ships have reverse engineered Reaper guns installed on them.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

LOL! you're cute! but I think I'll leave you alone now because you're clearly ignorant of the points I established. Have fun with your Synthesis ending!!!

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

But at the same time Javik says his people were fighting the reapers for one hundred years. I'm sure that there are vicrtories here and there but the strategy of using your enemy's people as your army is a solid one that can't really be beat.

On top of that the reapers don't need supplies, bases and home territory. They go to planets, clean them out and move on. You could say that it's the only military in the galaxy that has ever deployed that tactic, making everyone severely unprepared for such aggression.

So when they say conventional means, they refer to wars that were waged against other organics in the past. Even the geth were hinging at defeat through conventional methods.

We are in a much better position then the Protheans were, and we have Thannix cannons. The ground war is simply to keep our people alive, but the real war is happening in space where the reapers are. If the reapers are dead maybe they can no longer control their husks.

Of course. But it's the reaper ground forces that divide and conquor organic forces and cut them off from resources. On top of that, reapers use civilians and military personel for husks. The only way to cut the husks numbers is to completely evactuate the planet along with the military and fight in space only. But then you'd have no planet.

[ExtendedCut]

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

They only needed to have Shepard kill Harbinger, they could have left the other reapers for ME4, and I would have been more satisfied. Heck the next 3 games could have taken place during the reaper war and I would have been happy.

The idea of Shepard uniting the galaxy to conventionally beat the reapers is attractive to me. No need for a crucible, we could have had some giant space mechs by now if it weren't for the crucible.

I totally agree.  The whole premise of ME3 up to the ending is uniting the galaxy.  Wouldn't the MOST fullfilling way to complete this game for the fans have been the ability to defeat the Reapers, if you managed to gather enough forces together?

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

So what I've learned from SubAstris is that he accepts synthesis space magic but rejects resurrection technology, in favor of simply interpreting it as Shepard being Space Jesus.

It must be nice to live in a world where the endings make sense.

Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

So what I've learned from SubAstris is that he accepts synthesis space magic but rejects resurrection technology, in favor of simply interpreting it as Shepard being Space Jesus.

It must be nice to live in a world where the endings make sense.

Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

I'm guessing zebra stripes.

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

Why are you even playing a science fiction game? Science fiction involves technologies we imagine are possible and through out Mass Effect, the writers have been paying attention to the advice and opinions of futurists. Futurists extrapolate what the technology could be in the future based on the technology we have today. Need I even repeat the Arthur C. Clarke quote?

[balance5050]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...
Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

I'm guessing zebra stripes.

I would have guessed green circuit board pattern.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...


So maybe the EC will actually consist of Bioware saying "Psyche! Shepard really was indoctinated and all of the end sequence was in his mind!  But we got the last laugh because after Shepard's vision, everyone dies anyway, because the Crucible didn't do anything and the Reapers won!"

Well I still dont buy the idea that the Reapers cant be defeated conventionally. That just seems like faulty reasoning people are employing to justify the need for the Crucible.

The codex on the Reapers and the Reaper War show quite a few places where we were victorious, or at least holding our ground against the Reaper forces.

But at the same time Javik says his people were fighting the reapers for one hundred years. I'm sure that there are vicrtories here and there but the strategy of using your enemy's people as your army is a solid one that can't really be beat.

On top of that the reapers don't need supplies, bases and home territory. They go to planets, clean them out and move on. You could say that it's the only military in the galaxy that has ever deployed that tactic, making everyone severely unprepared for such aggression.

So when they say conventional means, they refer to wars that were waged against other organics in the past. Even the geth were hinging at defeat through conventional methods.

Well, the Reapers seized control of the Citadel in Javik's cycle, and used it to disable the entire Relay system.

If you cant get your fleets to group up, the scattered ships are going to be easy to take out. Javik even said there was no final battle in his cycle.

I figured the only reason it took hundreds of years for Javik's cycle to lose is because the Reapers destroyed all their ships at the beginning of the invasion, then took their time harvesting all of the populated planets.

He claimed we had hope for a future, which his cycle never did. His cycle was building a Crucible too, so I dont see whats different about us that would imply we had hope for a future when his cycle didnt, other than the fact that all our fleets can still travel and meet up with eachother, and a large chunk of our ships have reverse engineered Reaper guns installed on them.

The thing is that we stopped the reapers initial invasion three years before. Although the galaxy didn't acknoledge their exisance, there were just enough people in power that did and prepared to some extent. But even then, earth was burning and most of the colonies went dark early into the war. Thessia was likely to be gone in a few more weeks. Palaven would probably be the last to go down thanks to the krogan.

But eventually they will die out because of lack of resources and that for every soldier on the ground that's lost is one gained for the reapers.

[Dwailing]

balance5050 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...
Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

I'm guessing zebra stripes.

I would have guessed green circuit board pattern.

I actually considered making a crack about the green ending, but by that logic our favourite ending would have to be the Control ending since we have a blue sky. 

[ExtendedCut]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The amount of money is irrelevant, it requires a lot of handwaving to explain what happened. It might have been a pseudo-explanation but don't let that fool you, it is nonetheless space magic (if you take the same definition many use for Synthesis)

Wut? So all sci fi is space magic by your logic then.

It makes sense to be able to preserve a brain and put it in an artificial body, which isn't exactly what happens in ME 2 but its a common sci-fi occurence.

SCI-FI CONSISTS OF  "PSEUDO-EXPLANATIONS" YOU FOOL!

The explanation for Shepard's resurrection is effectively "handwaving". It is poorly conceived because it violates what we know fundamentally know, bodies falling from outer space into planets go splat. You can cover it up with meaningless, quasi-scientific language, but it doesn't escape the issue.

So what I've learned from SubAstris is that he accepts synthesis space magic but rejects resurrection technology, in favor of simply interpreting it as Shepard being Space Jesus.

It must be nice to live in a world where the endings make sense.

Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

Yeah.  That's the point I was trying to make earlier.  If IT is false, and Space Jesus is the answer, and SubAstris is the only person on earth that actually understood the ending out of the millions that played the game, then Bioware did a really crappy job with the ending...

[BatmanTurian]

ExtendedCut wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It wasn't successful for a certain group of people. The fact that this thread is almost 2000 pages strong is indicative that it was successful on some level.

Yeah.  That's my point exactly.  If the ending is actually literal (i.e. IT does not exist), and the closure we are supposed to feel is a more "artistic" metaphorical/emotional ending, rather than being spelled-out for us, then it failed because nobody agrees that is the case.

Alright, I'm trying to understand. You're saying that it can't be literal because it doesn't make sense without applying metaphors, right?

I was just trying to understand what SubAstris was conveying in this ongoing arguement.  Basically, he said that there may be a metaphorical ending (something to do with a comparison to Jesus' resurrection), even if IT doesn't exist.  In other words, we would get closure from the literal ending by comparing Shepard to Jesus, and therefore we, the players, would be happy with Shepard as a great martyr and be "content"-feeling about the ending.

I'm saying that if Bioware did intend to do a literal ending with an overlying metaphorical motif about comparison to Jesus or something as SubAstris said, then they did a very poor job of it, because almost nobody got that meaning out of the ending. 

IT, on the other hand, is not a metaphorical ending, it is a (for lack of a better word) deductive ending, because it points to a different ending by utilizing the clues we have been given. 

Therefore, IMO, if a literal ending with an overlying metaphorical ending didn't work, then either Bioware totally botched the ending, or had something different in mind.  Considering that, so far, Bioware has been excellent, then IT makes the most sense.

Okay, sorry, that was a lot of words to not really say much of anything...

No, you said a lot. I didn't make the connections about what you were talking about. Now I understand, so I appreciate the explanation a lot.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 30 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...
Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

I'm guessing zebra stripes.

I would have guessed green circuit board pattern.

I kinda figure it looks like this:



Speaking of Futurama, due to being both technically undead (as Shep says to Jack in her romance) and Space Jesus, is Shepard the Zombie Jesus we always hear the Professor talking about?

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...


The thing is that we stopped the reapers initial invasion three years before. Although the galaxy didn't acknoledge their exisance, there were just enough people in power that did and prepared to some extent. But even then, earth was burning and most of the colonies went dark early into the war. Thessia was likely to be gone in a few more weeks. Palaven would probably be the last to go down thanks to the krogan.

But eventually they will die out because of lack of resources and that for every soldier on the ground that's lost is one gained for the reapers.

I still think if the asari had ignored the Reaper ground assault they could have beaten them at Thessia. The codex makes it clear they were taking out Reapers before they switched tactics and tried to defend the ground forces (which were pretty much as good as dead anyways).

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

balance5050 wrote...

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I think the problem here is that SubAstris truly wishes that he could also have luminescent lines of code flowing all over his body and have a synthorganic squeeze. We're ruining his ability to daydream about it by suggesting that it's too far beyond the suspension of disbelief by calling it space magic.

Or because a lot of things in Mass are "Space Magic" before they get explained.  The problem with the ending sequence is we get no such explanation and it's not preestablished fiction they're going off of, which pisses off hard sci fi fans.

Problem with that is things are usually explained up front so they never have a chance to be space magic.

The only one explaining what the crucible will do is a vision clearly stolen from your own thoughts, an untrustworthy narrator.

I don't disagree that the ending is problematic, I'm just suggesting that many things, from reaper indoctrination to reaper weapon systems to various bits on the collectors aren't explained up front, but are explained through the course of the story.

I do agree that exposing a new tech/method at the end of a story without explanation can be...irritating.

Personally I don't have a problem with the tech they used- I don't get deep enough into the sci fi to really get too annoyed when they pull something new out.  My problems mainly come with the way the end was assembled, and the super heavy implied-but-not-stated bits and pieces (Saren with Synthesis, TIM with Control, the breath, etc.)

[DJBare]

DJBare wrote...

Here is one to try out, stand at the top of the ramp that leads to where Anderson is, turn to face left or right, then take your eyes off the screen and just listen, listen to the electrical arching, I'm not going to tell you what I hear, I'm going to leave it up to you.

Forgive me quoting myself, but it is interesting if you listen with your eyes closed, I'm using Earforce Z6 suround sound headphones.