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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#47601
Arian Dynas

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byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


Or a very thick skull. ;)


Yknow, back in the earlier days of IT, someone on 4chan said I was indoctrinating BSN, claiming he'd never seen so many people on BSN agree on something before...

Maybe he was right!


And I got to help, joy joy. I've been plying Object Rho to your derelict Reaper.

#47602
SubAstris

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NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies

#47603
Dwailing

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byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...


I'm going to restate my idea for a Harbinger boss battle.  How about using the laser designator from the Reaper battle on Rannoch to direct EVERY SINGLE SHIP IN SWORD FLEET TO TURN HARBINGER INTO A GREY SMEAR IN THE MIDDLE OF A VERY LARGE CRATER?!  I think it would be awesome.


Speaking of cool weapons we only get to use once, why do we never once use the turret installed on the shuttle before or after the mission to rescue Zaal'Koris?  Seems like it'd have been pretty useful.


Maybe you'll have to do a strafing run or something to clear the area around the Conduit if it turns out that Shepard's shuttle was shot down before actually reaching the Conduit.

#47604
byne

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SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.

#47605
Dwailing

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Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


Or a very thick skull. ;)


Yknow, back in the earlier days of IT, someone on 4chan said I was indoctrinating BSN, claiming he'd never seen so many people on BSN agree on something before...

Maybe he was right!


And I got to help, joy joy. I've been plying Object Rho to your derelict Reaper.


And I've been Marauder Shields.  I don't do much, but I've sure as heck become popular. B)

#47606
balance5050

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"guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value" = literalist

#47607
SubAstris

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balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

In an infinite stretch of time, the chances of such things occurring are probably equal to just destroying the Reapers and letting people get on with it. However with in-built synthetics, organic hybrids would have a better understanding of how machines work, so that when they create new AI, they will be to control and counteract them much better


Dude, you just gave every Krogan synthetics, things are going to be a lot worse in the long run. That's why it's specist, war and genocide happen regardless of what the synthetics do.


So I'm assuming you didn't cure the genophage? Remember that everyone else has been improved by the same amount as well

#47608
Hawk227

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DJBare wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

For me, that's where the electric arcing in the circular chasm comes in. Hear alarm, dream phone. Hear gunfire, dream arcing electricity. Would his brain edit out the rapid firing avengers? They could have just had rapidly arcing bits here and there to account for the avengers. It's a gunfight, but you don't hear all of it because his brain is interpreting it weird. I feel like it's poor form on our part to try and have it both ways.

Well, if we are to consider that the developers did not want us to get it too easily, then avengers are going to stand out somewhat.


It could be slowed down and portrayed as something else (like rapid firing electric arcs, or a battle in the wards). But yeah, it would be hard to incorporate. But I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to accept its absence. Take what we want and discard what we don't like. That's no good.

#47609
Dwailing

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byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.


No, he should leave it like it is.  Then there can be lots of speculation for everyone as to WHY he chose to use those words. ;)

#47610
DJBare

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Hawk227 wrote...

I still like Arian's explanation from a few days ago that there were supposed to be 2 separate endings. The face value ending goes over well for newbies who like how "profound" it is, while hardcore fans recognize the indoctrination and appreciate it for what it is. But they overestimated the hardcore fans, and people didn't get it, or didn't want it.

Even noobs would have figured it out when they see their Shepard being helped from the rubble, time for round 2!

#47611
balance5050

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byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.


:D:D:D

#47612
Arian Dynas

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Dwailing wrote...
*snip*
Arian!  You're back! (obviously ;))  Would you kindly repost your new version of the after endings sequence?


Ye asketh and ye shall receive.

Arian Dynas wrote...

A brand new re-write, just for you people.
Here's with all my love to you guys. Credit to Rastlin and BatmanTurian for ideas.

[Shepard Breath Scene, Shepard breathes in, camera pans out further to see Reapers fighting the Hammer ground forces and Sword fleet, Harbinger steps into the shot, camera zooms into his eyes, a brief montage of the last several minutes playes backwards, images flashing across the screen. we see Shepard standing up again, only this time, the background is clear, we can see Destroyers marching along, tracer rounds being fired, the war is still going strong, surrounding Shepard is a collection of Husks and Maruaders, three Husks charge forward, Shepard dispatches them with three shots, his reflexes fast, despite his injuries, a Marauder steps in, but it's shield suddenly drops as Harbinger directs his attention at it. Shepard finishes the Maurader with a shot to the head, then collapses, Harbinger looks down and his eyes flash. as Shepard looks up at the beam and begins to walk slowly toward it, muttering to himself "I feel like Death, but I'm moving", Harbinger just stares, camera pans out to see Hammer regrouping for another push, no one sees Shepard, whom by this point is only a slowly moving black dot, slowly approaching the beam. Go to 1]
__________________________________________________________________________________________

1 - Desperate Times

[Camera cuts to Commander Bailey fighting off a horde of Husks, C-Sec officers at his side, civilians running into a heavy door behind him, he fires off his avenger, taking the head off a Husk, we see a Maruader stop, kneel and take a few shots, spinning and killing the Turian officer standing next to Bailey, the Commander turns and fires at it full auto, shredding it's torso. The last of Bailey's officers and the civillians get in before his gun jams and he drops it, running into the shelter, closing the door behind him, pulling out his pistol as he does so. One of the Council members approaches him, the Asari, if she survived.]

COUNCILOR TEVOS: Commander Bailey, what is the suitation?

BAILEY: It's like a nightmare out there, the biggest ****storm you ever saw, it makes Sovereign's attack look like a damn walk in the park by comparison.

[Several of the Civillians seem frightened, huddling in fear with one another, a baby can be heard crying, some of the women and girls too. The Salarian Councilor [or if he is dead, his dialogue is skipped entirely] turns to Bailey, after watching a human father trying to comfort his wife and child. We also (if he survived) hear a man trying to comfort a frightened woman.]

CONRAD VERNER: There there now... it's alright... I'm sure we'll be just fine... it's not like they can get in here...

[loud bang, door buckles slightly, woman looks at Conrad with venom.]

COUNCILOR VALERN [appearing unusually nervous and jumpy, even for a Salarian]: What do you recommend we do then, Commander?

COUNCILOR SPARATUS: We can't just stay here. If we do, this shelter will become our tomb.

[A C-Sec officer steps up to Bailey, Turian, possibly one of the two whom was standing outside of Purgatory earlier on]

C-SEC OFFICER [saluting]: Commander, the door is sealed, we're safe, for the moment. They aren't getting in that way.

BAILEY: Good. That buys us some time, at least.

OFFICER: Commander, if I may ask, what is this place?

[Bailey turns his head to the asari councilor, as if making sure that it's alright to say, she nods.]

BAILEY[walking along the row of cowering civillians, stopping in front of a QEC]: Emergency shelter, we had them built in a while ago, after Sovereign's attack, in case something like this happened again... hoped never to have to use 'em...

[A C-Sec officer is standing in front of the console, woman, human, dark skinned.]

HUMAN C-SEC OFFICER: Commander, we're getting something on the comm channel, but I can't get a fix on it.

BAILEY[shakes his head and steps up to the panel, pressing a few buttons and clearing up the static, revealing Admiral Hackett]: Do I have to run everything around here?

HACKETT: H-H-H-H-Hello! C-C-C-C-Can anyone hEAR me on this this channNEL? Is is anyone al-l-l-llive out t-there?

BAILEY: Admiral Hackett?

HACKETT[feed gradually clearing up]: Commander... Bailey? Citadel Security? 

BAILEY: Yes, we're here Admiral.

HACKETT: Commander, Y-y-yyou have no id-d-dea how good it is to hear from the Citadel. What's the suitation there?

BAILEY: Grim. We've managed to save the council, as well as some civillians, but right now we're holed up in a bunker and we've got the bastards banging on our door, and they aren't looking to sell cookies.

[Scene changes to Hackett's perspective, we see him looking out at the fight from his war-room on his flagship, before the camera pans back to Bailey.]

HACKETT [resting his chin on his hand]: Have you heard from any Aliance forces down there Commander? We haven't received any recent word, but we sent down a force to try and make their way into the Citadel.

BAILEY: Well, if you're planning on taking the Citadel back, there won't be much point. The place is packed with the bastards like a can of sardines.

HACKETT: We need the arms open.

BAILEY: You're out of your everloving mind.

[Bailey pauses for a moment, as if thinking.]

BAILEY: What on Earth for?

HACKETT[brief pause, as if considering how much to tell him]: You've probably heard rumors about a superweapon we've been working on Commander, it's designed to hook onto the Citadel, we can't activate it with the arms closed. 

BAILEY: Seems like a pretty stupid idea, putting all of your eggs in one basket, Admiral.

HACKETT: It's the best hope we have Commander. If we don't get those arms open, we all get to be sitting on top of one massive grave.

[Suddenly a C-sec officer comes running over, the same woman as before]

OFFICER: Commander Bailey! Commander! We've got radio chatter coming in on our comms, it's the Alliance sir, a small striketeam has made their way into the Citadel, but they're about to be overrun!

HACKETT: Commander, you have to help them, it's the only way any of us are getting out of this.

BAILEY: Hell... I'm getting too damn old for this. Tell them we're coming, and that we've been updated on what the hell is going on.

[Bailey turns to leave as the council approaches the QEC to be updated on the suitation by Hackett. Bailey pauses only to pick up an assault rifle and gather a few of his officers, a few civvies from the CDF join in, pistols in their hands.]

BAILEY: Alright boys and girls. We've just got orders from Alliance command. Fighting a war might not be our job, but today we're all military. We need to get the the arms open so the soldier-boys can do their thing. Now, load up and let's move out.

[Pan to the outside of the door, where a Brute is pounding on it to no avail, trying to batter it down. the door lifts up a crack, there's a soft, metallic tinkling sound. The Brute looks down just as a grenade rolls into shot and explodes. Bailey steps out the doorway, guns blazing, flanked by C-Sec officers and armed Citadel Defense Force civillians as they push their way toward where we can see another firefight brewing. After a minute or two of action scenes, the camera pans to Anderson finishing off a Husk with his omni-blade, covered from head to toe in blood, several Alliance soldiers flanking him, Major Coates bringing up the rear, all of the soldiers look worse for wear, as though they've just been through hell and back.]

[Bailey walks up to Anderson and adresses him as either Councilor, or as Captain, we'll assume councilor here.]

BAILEY: Councilor Anderson!

ANDERSON: It's admiral now, just admiral.

[Anderson streches his arm out to shake hands with Bailey]

ANDERSON: It's damned good to see you alive Bailey.

BAILEY: Likewise Counc-Admiral. What's the suitation?

ANDERSON [looks at Coates]: Did anyone else make it to the beam?

COATES: Negative. Our entire force was decimated. We're all that's left of Hammer Team, anyone else is still stuck on the ground, we're on our own from here on in.

ANDERSON: There's your answer. I've been informed you already know what our mission is, so let's not waste time.

BAILEY: Agreed. Let's go.

[Go to 2.]
__________________________________________________________________________________________

2 - Assayed In the Heat of the Crucible

[Cut back to Shepard, still crawling on the ground toward the beam, Harbinger looking down, Husks and Mauraders still fighting off the remnants of Hammer Team, lead at the forefront by any old squadmates and friends you saw before, Kirrahe, Jack, Grunt, Wrex/Wreav ect. a brief cutscene showing all of them together, with the ones missing, merely not shown.]

[Shepard collapses a few hundred feet from the beam, face pressed into the dirt, we look down at him, close up bird's eye veiw, flashes of the scene between TIM and Anderson flash over the screen, the dialogue plays, nearly a whisper.]

HARBINGER: YOU ARE WEAK, SHEPARD. SURRENDER YOUR FORM TO ME. WE SHALL PERFECT YOUR SPECIES.

ANDERSON [echoing]: You're... indoctrinated....indoctrinated....

[Shepard lifts his gun slightly and squeezes the trigger once, firing a shot that ricochets and cuts a cable on the reciving part of the Reaper Beam, causing it to break and short, hanging down low. Electricty arching between the ends. Shepard crawls forward, nearly to the beam, gasping, the same gasping and grunting heard as he crawls to the panel for the citadel controls, just before collapsing. Harbinger's eyes flash and Shepard stands up.]

[The Guardian scene flashes again before our eyes as Harbinger begins to take off, Reaper forces slowly pushing the remainder of Hammer back from the beam.]

If you chose either Synthesis or Control, and saved the Rachni Queen in ME1, and saved her again in ME3, go to 3.

If you did NOT save the Rachni queen, either in ME1, or during the mission, but you did manage to save Eve and chose either Synthesis or Control, go to 4.

if you chose Synthesis and did NOT save either Eve or the Rachni queen, go to 5.

If you chose Control and did NOT save either Eve or the Rachni queen, go to 6.

If you chose Destroy, go to 7.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

3 - Our Voices Shall Mingle With Yours

[Shepard struggles, to stand, starting to walk toward either the Beam, or the to hanging cables. his pistol, a gun that Anderson dropped on the mad dash to the Citadel, in his hand, shaking. He slowly approaches the beam, dropping the gun as he does so, when a shrill note breaks into his mind, akin to a scream.]

RACHNI QUEEN: SPECTRE!

[Shepard screams and collapses. An unearthly music begins to play.]

RACHNI QUEEN: SOUR MUSIC IS UPON YOU! A FOUL NOTE CLOUDS YOUR MIND! YOU MUST FIGHT! AS PROMISED, WE ADD OUR VOICES TO YOURS TO DROWN OUT THE VOICE OF THE MACHINES!

[Shepard screams again, clawing at the ground, forcing himself into a semi sitting position, his neck arches backwards as the whole scene is slowly permeated by a low, sickly sounding hum which slowly gets louder and louder, then suddenly, it ceases, the unearthly Rachni music, which Shepard now realizes comes pouring from the collective throats of an entire species fills the air with beautiful tones, harmonizing and drowning out the hum. Go to 7.]
________________________________________________________________________________________

4 - Your Darkest Hour

[Shepard struggles to walk toward the beam or downed cables, his pistol shaking in his hand as he slowly approaches it. Shepard trips over a rock as he walks toward either the beam or the cables. Shepard does a faceplant in the sandy dirt, something bouncing out of an (amazingly) still intact pouch. Urdnot Bakara's crystal. It's nothing more than a crystal with a light source installed, hung on a chain, a simple gift... and yet so much more. Shepard stares at the little light, enraptured, Vigil starts playing, a short flash of all the faces of our friends and companions, Grunt, Joker, Liara, Ashley, Kaiden, Hackett, Anderson, all of them plays by at high speed, superimposed over the image of Shepard staring down at the crystal, the light reflected in his eyes, which are now filled with tears, he crawls over to a pile of rubble, resting his back against a rock. Shepard calmly reaches down to the dropped Carnifex and places the barrel under his chin. Cut to black, gunshot. Go to 9.]
_________________________________________________________________________________________

5 - Harmony of Man and Machine

[Shepard stands up tall, and drops his gun, running straight for the beam, there's a flash of white. Shepard is suspended in the beam for a moment, the whole thing slowly starting to lift him when it suddenly shuts down and Shepard thrown into a wall with considerable force, lying collapsed in a pile of concrete, an approaching Maurader levels it's weapon at him, but there is no need, he's one of theirs now, focus in on Shep's eyes as we see they're just like TIM's, and just like Saren's, they gradually close as Shepard falls back into unconciousness. Go to 8.]
________________________________________________________________________________________

6 - A Blaze of Glory

[Shepard slowly crawls to the "control" panel, grasping the cables when he comes close, electricty burning through his body, revealing his cybernetics, as his eyes slowly change to match TIM's, the electricity has done nothing for his indoctrination, but the fact that Control was the choice he made damns him. Sad music plays. Fade to black. Go to 8.]
________________________________________________________________________________________

7 - A Fight Still to Win

[Shepard stands up, tall, bleeding mostly stemmed and strides confidently toward a large piece of Reaper equipment suituated next to the beam reciver, gun in his hand, focus on his eyes as gunshots ring out, a flash of light and the sound of an explosion. The Beam shuts down with a loud crack, a large contingient of Reaper forces bound for the inside of the Citadel being left stranded where they stand as an errant Mass Acellerator shot lands in the middle of the enemy collumn, obliterating it. The Shepard breath scene plays again as we see him thrown into the rubble, this time having the full context of the scene, triumphant music plays throughout. Go to 8.]
________________________________________________________________________________________

8 - Bailey

[Shot fades back into focus as we see Anderson looking down the barrel of a sniper rifle, lining up a shot, before taking a Husk's head clean off.]

BAILEY: Nice shot.

ANDERSON: Heh, you should have seen me when I was 20 years younger.

[Suddenly, a Maurauder comes whilring around the corner, blasting away at both Anderson and Bailey, the rest of their squad too far away to help them, Bailey keeps calm, levels his pistol at the Maurauder and perforates it's forehead.]

ANDERSON: Nice shot.

BAILEY [grins]: You should have seen me 20 years ago.

[Coates comes running up, bleeding profusely.]

COATES: Admiral! Admiral, we've cleared a path to the Citadel tower, but we can't hold it for long. We can't afford to send more than half our group up there, the other half will have to stay down here and keep your back covered.

[Anderson strokes his chin for a moment, Bailey chimes in]

BAILEY: Fine, Council-ADMIRAL, you stay here and keep your people alive, I'll take some of my boys and see about opening those arms.

ANDERSON: Bailey, I Insist, take some of my men, they'll-

BAILEY [interrupting]: No, I insist Admiral, we'll make sure we take care of this. Protecting the Citadel is our job. You just keep those bastards off of our backsides.

[Anderson nods once, Coates following behind as the two of them prepare a defensive perimeter, Bailey and several of his officers pile into the elevator and ride it up, giving us a sweeping, panoramic of the burning Presidum ring.]

[Bailey and his men pile out, rushing the enemy forces, some blasting shotguns and kicking down husks, others pausing, lining up a shot with police sniper rifles, and then seperating Maurauders from their heads.]

[Bailey charges to reach the console at the far end of the Council chambers. Only to have a sudden burst of light stop him, a Banshee diving in close and picking him up. Bailey snarls in it's face, holding a grenade in one hand.]

[Now, this is where things change. If your Citadel Defense asset was high enough, Bailey has more men, and you get to watch as several of them blast the Banshee with several shots, causing her to scream and drop the commander, who drops his grenade, which we see roll and bounce into a nest of Cannibals, giving Bailey just enough time to rush the control console and open the arms, which then cuts to a cinematic of the arms opening and the Crucible approaching, just like before.]

[If your Citadel defense asset was NOT high enough, Bailey lets the grenade go off, killing the Banshee and shredding most of his own body in the process, we can hear Hackett on Bailey's radio shouting; "Bailey! Commander!" as Bailey crawls to the panel, opens the arms, and expires,]

BAILEY [muttered]: I did get to see it again...

[Camera cuts to outside the Citadel, watching as the arms open, the Crucible attached. Harbinger watches and gives out a long, low Reaper horn, immediately, all Reapers currently engaged pull out,  taking off from Earth if need be, the fight just became too costly to endanger their perfection, Harbinger, being a canny general, knows that one fight lost, does not mean a lost war, and will not exhaust more resources in a fight he can't win. We see the Reapers rushing through the fleet, several are killed, but some manage to toss ships aside, destroying some, the Charon relay activates and the Reapers flee through it, Harbinger pulling up the rear, firing his beam with a parting shot just before going into the relay. Harbinger himself never sees the shot hit the Crucible, but it does, causing a massive explosion and rocking the entire Citadel, but not destroying either.]

If you chose Control with low EMS, chose Destroy with any EMS, or commited suicide go to 9.
If you chose Control with high EMS, go to 11. 
If you Chose Synthesis, go to 10.
________________________________________________________________________________________ 

9 - Left For Dead

[Star Child appears before Shepard, looking down at him and shaking his head]

SC: Shepard, you disappoint me. It seems there is little point in devoting any further effort to you.

[SC changes into a hologram of Harbinger]

HARBINGER: RELEASING CONTROL.

[Hologram disappears, Harbinger leaving Shepard to die, moves either to cutscene 12 if your EMS was low enough that you only had one option, chose Control, or commited suicide, or go to 13 if it was over 2000 and you chose Destroy or were saved by the Rachni Queen.]
______________________________________________________________

10 -  A Pawn in a Larger Game
 
[Fade in, looking down at Shepard, lying in the rubble]

[Star Child appears before Shepard, looking down at him. and grinning wickedly before disappearing]

[Shepard begins to crawl out from the rubble, attracting the attention of Garrus and Liara whom are running a search and rescue op to find Shepard.]

LIARA: Shepard!

[Shepard turns, looking none the worse for wear, much the same as we last saw him, only he seems to be standing taller and straighter now.]

SHEPARD: Liara, Garrus! What are you two doing down here?

GARRUS: Looking for you, you look rough. Are you holding up alright?

HARBINGER [whispering only to Shepard]: KILL THEM, THEY ARE A THREAT.

SHEPARD[Reaching down to pick up a pistol from the ground, it's the same Carnifex from his earlier]: Yeah... I'm fine.

GARRUS: Good, we'll get an evac team in as soon as possible then.

SHEPARD: You do that.

LIARA: Shepard... are you alright?

SHEPARD: Yeah, fine, just a bit messed up, the fight took alot out of me.

GARRUS[turning his back to Shepard Liara standing beside him]: Well the shuttle should be coming in any moment now, then we'll get you back to HQ and brief you on the suitation.

SHEPARD [Leveling his pistol to the back of Garrus' head, bringing to mind imagery of Saren and Nihlius]: Sounds good.

[Cut to black, pistol shots, Liara screams and there's the sound of two bodies hitting the ground.]

ALLIANCE MARINE [on radio]: ...oing on? Repeat, we need a sitrep. What's going on down there?

SHEPARD [picking up the radio]: Situation under control soldier.

AM: Commander Shepard, it's good to hear you, what happened sir?

SHEPARD[pretending to hold back tears]: Reaper attack, it's dealt with but... they got two of my team, Garrus and Liara.

AM [audibly distressed]: I'm sorry to hear that sir. We'll see to it they get proper burials once we can secure the LZ.

SHEPARD: Thank you, soldier.

[Audio fades to sad music, zoom out to see shuttle landing, Shepard carrying Liara's body to it, a marine stepping out and talking to him/her. Cut to Reaper ground troops approaching the LZ rapidly, Shepard loads on with Liara's body, several of the marines climb out to hold off the enemy so Shepard can escape. Camera cuts to Shepard watching the squad getting wiped out, then he turns to the player, looks out the screen and smiles wickedly as his eyes flash yellow. Cue credits.]
________________________________________________________________

11 - Self Sacrifice

[Star Child appears before Shepard's body, covered in rubble, looks slightly... off. Star Child grins, eyes flash yellow and he disappears]

[Shepard crawls from the rubble, his synthetics EXTREMELY noticeable now, wires running across his skin, ect, in fact, he looks rather like the hybrids from the Synthesis ending]

[Cut to a sniper scope lining up on Shepard's head, cut and spin 180 to reveal Garrus is the one lining up the shot, he pulls his eye back from the scope in shock, his mandibles (or, whatever the hell you call those things on the sides of his cheeks) click in suprise. He throws his head foreward, looking into the scope again, lining up Shepard again, or so we think, but instead nailing a Husk that was about to throw itself at his back, Shepard turns to Garrus' post and looks suprised.]

GARRUS: Still needing me to get you out of trouble, eh Shepard?

SHEPARD[moaning in pain and clutching his temples]: G-Garrus...

GARRUS: What did they do to you Shepard?

SHEPARD: I d-don't know.... AUGH! G-GO! GET AWAY FROM ME!

[Shepard swings at Garrus, who doges the blow. Several other people climb up over a hill to see the scene before them, Liara, Vega, and several Alliance Marines backing them.]

LIARA: Garrus what's goin... Goddess...

[Shepard turns to face Liara, looking at her, his face contorted with pain.]

SHEPARD: Liara! Get out of here, get everyone out of here! They're trying to HAAAAAAAAAA!

[Shepard collapses with a scream, his body convulsing like electricity is being jolted through it.]

VEGA: Carumba... what's happening to him? What did those sons of ****es do to him?

GARRUS: Get back! He's indoctrinated. We saw the same thing with Saren.

[Shepard reaches out, clawing the ground with one hand, still trying to fight off Reaper influence one way or another, still trying to resist, but being slowly broken down, Garrus approaches with his pistol to finish the commander off, intending to end his suffering with a single bullet, a mercy kill.]

GARRUS[visibly upset]: I'm sorry commander... that it.. had to end this way.

[If your EMS was below 3000, then Garrus just shoots Shepard through the head, bang, cut to black and we see them leaving in the shuttles, sans crater and heroic death scene.]

[A large impact shakes the ground and several husks, ravagers, mauraders and cannibals climb up over the hill as everyone dives for cover. Shepard still claws the ground and sees an abandoned assault rifle lying near him.]

[The cannibals kill several of the marines, whom are spun by the impact of the bullets, the squad still desperately tries to fight off the enemy, Shepard suddenly stands up behind where Garrus, Vega and Liara are taking cover, clutching an assult rifle in his hands, standing tall now.]

GARRUS: Commander!

LIARA: Shepard!

SHEPARD[running into the enemy horde, firing the rifle the whole way]: Get out of here! I'll hold them off

LIARA: We're not leaving you commander!

SHEPARD [ducking as a grenade explodes near him]: Just go! I'm dead already!

VEGA: The hell you are Loco!

SHEPARD: Get out of here! That's an order!

[Shepard stands up and charges into the horde firing the whole way, bullets richocheting off what's left of his armor, some striking into his flesh, blood flies, shepard grabs a bandolier of grenades off the ground and pulls the pin off one, diving into  a mass of Brutes, Banshees, Marauders ect. There's a huge explosion, cut to a shuttle taking off, Vega and Liara watch from inside, Garrus just looks distraught, sad piano music plays. Then go to cutscene 15.]
_________________________________________________________________

12 - Death of a Soldier 

[Shepard lies there in the rubble, moaning softly in pain, he hears shouts in the distance. "Shepard! Shepard!" but he can't identify the source. Sad piano music plays, a soft white light slowly fills the screen. fade back in to Liara, Garrus, Vega, EDI, perhaps even Javik finding Shepard's body, everyone but Javik is visibly upset, Javik merely kneels and touches Shepard's body. No dialogue. Camera pans up to see the sunrise, showing a badly damaged Crucible (to be explored more in a later sequel) in orbit hanging off the back of the Citadel, Reaper bodies slowly falling to Earth. Fade to black, go to cutscene 15.]
________________________________________________________________

13 - Lost and Found

[Camera pans out from Shepard's body mostly covered in rubble and recognizable only from the dogtags sticking out and the charred armor.]

HACKETT [on radio]: ..pard, has anyone caught sight of Shepard? 

[squadmates looking for you, Garrus and and Liara] GARRUS: No sign, the approach got totaled after Harbinger's bombardment.

LIARA [whispered to herself]: Not again Shepard, please tell me, not again...

[Garrus turns and lays a hand on her shoulder, giving an encouraging nod. Go to cutscene 14 if you saw the "Shepard Alive" video, or go to cutscene 16 if you did not.]
________________________________________________________________

14 - Standing Triumphant

[Shepard manages to shift the rubble, just barely, Garrus and Liara turn to see Shepard pull just enough of himself from the rubble to weakly prop himself up. Liara turns and her face brightens, Garrus' eyebrows raise in shock, then he runs over to start helping you out, radioing to Hackett]

GARRUS: Alliance Command!, We have Shepard, repeat, we have Shepard!

HACKETT: Thank God. Garrus, we're sending a medical and extraction team, hold your ground until they get there. 

[the rest of your squad, any and all living members comment via radio, they're all running search and rescue teams of their own.]

VEGA[on radio]: Hey Loco, good to hear from ya, pendejo sons of ****es couldn't manage to kill you yet huh?

JAVIK[also on radio]: Commander, it is good to hear you are alive. It would be unfortunate to lose an ally now.

EDI [also on radio]: Commander Shepard, it is good to see you are alive. Jeff hasn't been at his best since you disappeared. He is certain that the damage the Normandy took when it crashed will be repaired easily enough.

[Shepard makes a face similar to the one he made about EDI's joke concerning oxygen levels and her absorption in a task.]

EDI: That is a joke.

[A few shots come zipping by, fired by a cannibal, Garrus turns and pops the cannibal through the head, before taking cover, Liara helps prop shepard up against a chunk of rubble dispensing medi-gel. Then a conversation begins, Shepard may choose to investigate several options, including "What happened?" "Where's Harbinger?" "What happened to the Crucible?" and then you can end the conversation by commenting either that you are glad that they found you rather than some husk, or that you're pissed about the state of things.

Answers to each investigate go as follows;

"What happened?"

SHEPARD [Weakly]: What's the suituation?

GARRUS [taking cover from more Cannibal fire]: It's been two days since the seige started, most of Hammer team got wiped out, some made it into the Citadel, we assumed you were dead.

SHEPARD [sarcastically] : Well that's comforting.

[Garrus chuckles]

LIARA: After Hammer was nearly destroyed, we nearly gave up, 

GARRUS [interrupting, still in cover, stands up to fire a few shots from his sniper rifle, blasts a Husk through the head]: Ha! [Satisfied smirk, nod.]  We did.

SHEPARD: What changed?

GARRUS: Well, we found out after the fact that Anderson managed to get a team in, well, and Bailey helped too, then yesterday, the Reapers started acting strange, no real explanation why, their ground forces were acting uncoordinated and almost... feral. More so than usual I mean. It was almost like they were focusing on something, We figured that something was you.

SHEPARD [sudden moan of pain, clutches his temples]: Agh... mm... I think you might be right.

"Where's Harbinger?"

SHEPARD: So, what happened to Harbinger? Last I saw him was on the approach.

GARRUS: Harbinger's been a non issue the past day or so. We're lucky, it gave us some time to recover, and to bring the Crucible in, they ran off with their tails... tentacles, whatever, between their legs.

LIARA:  Before that though, It was as though they were distracted, focusing on something. Ignoring everything else.

GARRUS: We figured that something was you.

"What happened to the Crucible?"

SHEPARD: What about the Crucible? Last thing I can remember, it wasn't firing.

GARRUS [turns, and looks at Shepard, suprised.]: You heard wrong, The Crucible never even showed up, 

SHEPARD [look of confusion]: What?

LIARA: The Crucible arrived this morning, it was still in dry dock the whole time.

[Camera pans to the Crucible device, hanging in high orbit above the planet, a large chunk visibly damaged.]

GARRUS:They took one look at the thing and half the fleet just left. Withdrew. Like they knew something would happen. One of them, Harbinger I think, got a parting shot as they were pulling out through the Charon Relay, huge damage to the thing. They're working on repairs now.

SHEPARD: Damn it!

GARRUS [stands, sights a target and nails a Marauder though the eye]: We're holding our own though, the lull for the past two days has been giving us time to recover. We still have a chance.

SHEPARD: "You have hope, more than you know"

LIARA [A look of concern for Shepard]: What? 

SHEPARD: Nothing.

"I'm glad you found me." [PARAGON]

SHEPARD: I'm glad it's you two who found me, getting turned into a husk wasn't what I was really planning for my retirement.

[Garrus chuckles, Liara smiles]

"Sons of ****es." [RENEGADE]

SHEPARD: Damn it, don't they ever give up?

GARRUS: Would you?

SHEPARD [watches an Alliance squad being assaulted by a number of Husks in the distance.]: No.

[Both Paragon and Renegade options lead to the same scene, a horde of Reaper ground forces start to come up the hill, Garrus blasts the heads off a few as they approach, Shepard tries to stand up, Liara forces him/her to sit down, turns and blasts the Reapers with a Singularity. After a moment or two of watching the combat, a shuttle, flanked by two gunships comes in close, the gunships blasting away at the encroaching ground forces before the shuttle lands, two EMTs climb out and ask where Shepard is, Liara points out his location and they load him into the shuttle, one distributing more medi-gel as he's loaded on, Garrus and Liara climbing in after. 

EMT: Sir, if we try to take off now we'll be wide open, we need something to draw their fire. 

[Go to cutscene 17 if the player saw the breath scene and managed to sit up enough to get their attention, or go to cutscene 16 if they did not.]
___________________________________________________________________

15 - Buried With Honors

[If Shepard died at any point here, then the scene cuts to here, Shepard's memorial service standing in the ruins of London, in front of the bombed out Big Ben, rubble mostly cleared away for the ceremony. Admiral Hackett, still looking worse for wear, scar still slashing across his face, it has yet to heal, standing in front of a podium, Anderson to his left, Vega, Kaiden (if he's alive) Cortez (if he's alive) Ashley (If she's alive) Privates Campbell and Westmoreland 
(better known as "those two soldiers guarding the war room"), and Traynor (if she's alive) standing to his right, a casket with the N7 iconography in front of him. Everyone is visibly upset.]

[Sad piano music plays, no dialogue, Hackett says something, Vega, Vermire Survivor, Chakwas, everyone takes a turn at the podium, nothing is heard but the music, Liara is sitting in the crowd, crying, Garrus and Tali (if she lived) next to her, Javik is nowhere to be found, his seat, empty, the Prothean has disappeared. Grunt (if he survived) roars into the distance, Wrex and a horde of Krogan behind them. Joker just sits, staring distraught at the casket, before turning and sobbing into EDI's shoulder, his humor having abandoned him. EDI herself gently holds him, rubbing his back, careful not to cause any damage.The Geth (if they weren't wiped out of course), appear, all seeming out of place. The Quarians wail and tear at their suits, The Rachni queen watches through the eyes of the Asari from the second game, the Turian military, led by Primarch Victus give a 21 gun salute as Vega, VS, and all the servicemen from the Normandy load the casket into the grave. Camera tilts down to look into the grave, dirt is slowly shoveled on, covering the N7 symbol as the screen slowly fades to black. Go to cutscene 18.]
__________________________________________________________________

16 - Snatched From the Jaws of Victory

[This cutscene plays out identically to 6 with a few minor differences, Shepard does not manage to shift the rubble, only to make noise, forcing Liara and Garrus to dig him out.
They prop him up, allowing the same conversation as before . When the shuttles arrive, the cutscene below takes place]

[Reaper forces slowly make their way up the hill, bullets richoceting off the armor of the shuttles, Garrus and Liara climb off the shuttle to buy them time, several Alliance Marines joining them, a cutscene follows, 
Garrus pops off a few shots, killing some Husks, Liara warps a Banshee's barrier, causing her to flinch.]

SHEPARD: Garrus, what the hell are you doing?

GARRUS[banging his fist against the side of the door, mimicking the soldier doing the same to a shuttle at the beginning of the game.]: Buying you time commander.

SHEPARD: Get back on here! That's an order!

GARRUS: Sorry Shepard, going to have to refuse that order. We're getting you out of here alive, one way or another.

[Shepard tries to gather the strength to tell them not to throw their lives away, but we only get to watch helplessly as Garrus' position is overrun by Husks, Liara is killed by a blast from a Ravager, and one of the two gunships escorting you gets shot down. Go to cutscene 17.]
________________________________________________________________

17 - A Hero's Welcome

[If you did NOT see cutscene 16, a Reaper collumn starts making their way in, but a number of ships from the fleet strafe them and the shuttle takes off with Shepard, Liara and Garrus on board.]

[Shepard is taken to an Alliance Field hospital, Anderson is there to greet them off the shuttle. If Liara and Garrus died, then he offers his condolences, especially if Liara was a LI, if not then the scene plays out like this;]

[Shuttle and Gunship/s touch down at a field hospital. Anderson walks up the the landing pad as Shepard is rushed out on a gurney. He motions for the EMTs to stop for a moment]

ANDERSON: You look good son.

SHEPARD [smiles weakly]: Liar.

ANDERSON [smiles back.]: Sometimes a little self-delusion is good for you. It's damn good to see you alive.

SHEPARD: You too sir, you helped alot.

ANDERSON [watches Shepard get hauled away by the EMTs]: I did?

[Garrus and Liara come up and greet Anderson as you're hauled away, no dialogue as you watch, an EMT looks down at you, you look through Shepard's eyes and watch as a breath mask is fitted over your mouth and nose, the EMT commenting about how this should help you sleep comfortably. You begin to black out.]

[Shepard begins to wake up, your vision swimming into focus, pan out to Shepard lying clean and bandaged in bed, it looks like Huerta Memorial. s/he's surrounded by flowers, gifts, a few "Get well Shepard" cards and you can see several of your squad talking to the doctors on the other side of the glass, you can't move at this point, but you can look around the room and read the cards/ look at the flowers, Shepard comments about each, some items appear based off of whom you've helped throughout the game, last two games, ect. Things like packages of display replicas of your N7 armor from Conrad Verner if he's alive, with his usual hero worship notes, a joke book from EDI and Joker, boxes of chocolates and flowers from Kaiden, a book of Tennyson poems from Ash, model shuttle from Cortez, a Haiku from Kasumi, stuffed Cannibal head from Grunt, a copy of Fornax, along with a note from Aria, things of that nature. After you've interacted with everything you can , your LI notices Shepard's awake, in this case, let's assume Ash.]

ASHLEY[pushes the doctor aside and opens the door, looks over, and smiles.]: Hey Skipper.

SHEPARD: Ash! 

ASHLEY [smiles]: It's good to see you awake. [sits down on a bench next to your bed.]

SHEPARD [the realization of where he is setting in]: What's going on? Didn't something happen to the Citadel? Where's the Reapers?

ASHLEY: Woah, slow down Commander. It's ok, the front is lighyears away. For now.

SHEPARD: For now?

ASHLEY [sighs, not wanting to talk about the subject when you've just woken up from your coma.]: We've pushed the Reapers off of Earth. But we haven't won the war yet. But we have a chance now. Harbinger is still out there, but now we've got time to rebuild. And at least we've got you around to help.

SHEPARD [lies back, mulling it over.]: I'm just... so tired...

ASHLEY [smiles, leans over, kisses Shepard and gently pushes him back into his pillows]: "Rest now, brave soldier."

SHEPARD [smiles]: The soldier in question is dying in that poem you know.

ASHLEY [smiles]: You ass, it's the thought that counts.

[Fade to black. Go to cutscene 18]
______________________________________________________________________

18 - Pre-Credits

[Text crawl, changes based off of descisions, lets assume you saved the Krogan, made peace between Geth and Quarians]

In the year 2187 AD, soldiers of the Earth Systems Alliance fought a desperate war against an overwhelming enemy. Earth was left to burn as these machines, called Reapers by the galaxy at large spread like a cancer across the Milky Way. One soldier faced them. Brokering peace between forces considered unreconcileable,he forged a navy unlike any seen before and returned to take back his home. The war was not without it's sacrifices and his story has ended. Though the tide may have turned, with the enemy either dead or in retreat, fleeing back into Dark Space to lick their wounds, they remain implacable, patient and not without resources.

The war is not over.

[Stars appear as text fades, camera pans 180 degrees to face Harbinger, who lets out a metallic scream  as his eyes flash.] 

[If Shepard lived, then he says the following:]

HARBINGER: SHEPARD. YOU HAVE MERELY DELAYED THE INEVITABLE. WE SHALL RETURN, AND YOU SHALL NOT STOP US. YOUR CONTINUED EXISTENCE IS INMAETERIAL, YOU ARE NOT SUITED FOR ASCENSION.WE WILL FIND ANOTHER.

[If Shepard died, then Harbinger says this line instead:]

HARBINGER: WE HAVE BEEN STOPPED FOR NOW. YOU HAVE MERELY DELAYED THE INEVITABLE. WE SHALL RETURN, AND YOU SHALL BE DESTROYED. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER.

[ Harbinger leads the remainder of the Reaper Fleet into dark space to lick their wounds. Cue credits]
_____________________________________________________________________

19 - Post Credits

[The Child and the Stargazer appear again, still standing as they were before.]

CHILD: That was a good story.

STARGAZER: I'm glad you liked it. I'm very fond of it too.

CHILD: So... what happened after?

STARGAZER [laugh]: That's another story my sweet, and one not related to The Shepard.

CHILD: Well.. what happened to him? And his friends?

STARGAZER: Well...

[cut to text crawl ala Throne of Bhaal, blue background, Vigil playing in the background. Text crawl next to each character's picture, including all squad mates, Wrex, Aria, Joker/EDI, Grissom Academy, Earth, Cerberus, TIM ect.]

[Example;]

Clan Urdnot 

Wrex went on to lead the Krogan people into a new golden age.

Despite the fears of a galxy wide war, the mighty Clan Urdnot, it's dominance sealed by the twin leadership of Urdnot Wrex and Urdnot Bakara managed to keep a firm grasp on the other clans, keeping bad sentiments low, and slowly building Tchanka into a superpower. 

The council, weak spined sots that they are, are now afraid the Krogan may be bucking for membership.

Wrex's thoughts on the subject?

"It'll do those cowards well to have a real leader in their ranks." 

MESSAGE FROM EA:

Thank you for enjoying Mass Effect 3. While Shepard's journey may be over, there are far more many adventures to be found in the Milky Way!

Adventures you can take part in, but, until then, that is, as they say, another story...

 

#47613
SubAstris

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balance5050 wrote...

"guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value" = literalist


The term is not subtle enough to accurately describe my position IMO, and probably a lot others, hence why I don't like it

#47614
Golferguy758

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...



Aww I'm not included? 

Posted Image

Also, someoen mentioned how the EC would hurt IT? The only way EC could really hurt IT is making it clear that indoctrination never took place. Ihndoctrination can be shown with just epilogue and closure scenes. I.e. Show indoctrination>Succumb or beat it> scenes showing the result of your choice> resolution.

Gameplay would only make it more entertaining, but by no means would it be required to prove indoctrination theory.

#47615
Hawk227

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DJBare wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I still like Arian's explanation from a few days ago that there were supposed to be 2 separate endings. The face value ending goes over well for newbies who like how "profound" it is, while hardcore fans recognize the indoctrination and appreciate it for what it is. But they overestimated the hardcore fans, and people didn't get it, or didn't want it.

Even noobs would have figured it out when they see their Shepard being helped from the rubble, time for round 2!


Yeah, eventually. But as a means of passing the time between March 6th and whenever they finish DLC (or don't if they didn't think they had to) unscathed.

#47616
kyg_20X6

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Go back ten pages, read my theory on what Bioware planned. Think. Be happy. 


Done. An interesting POV. I hope you're right but my interpretation of BW's statements is that the EC was never planned. 

Still...

An EC that explains the current endings as an indoctrination attempt, ends the war appropriately (according to IT, you still haven't beaten the Reapers when you 'wake up') and gives closure for the characters/races.

>

An EC that keeps the endings as they are taken on face value, clarifys some plotholes and gives closure for the characters/races.

>

The current ending interpreted as an indoctrination attempt but left incomplete (Reapers left unbeaten, what happened after 'waking up'?). No closure.

>

Current endings taken on face value. Full of plotholes, no closure.

#47617
SubAstris

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Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.


No, he should leave it like it is.  Then there can be lots of speculation for everyone as to WHY he chose to use those words. ;)


Ah hubris...

#47618
balance5050

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SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

In an infinite stretch of time, the chances of such things occurring are probably equal to just destroying the Reapers and letting people get on with it. However with in-built synthetics, organic hybrids would have a better understanding of how machines work, so that when they create new AI, they will be to control and counteract them much better


Dude, you just gave every Krogan synthetics, things are going to be a lot worse in the long run. That's why it's specist, war and genocide happen regardless of what the synthetics do.


So I'm assuming you didn't cure the genophage? Remember that everyone else has been improved by the same amount as well


No, I did cure the Genophage. So now the krogans can have batches of eggs in the thousands, they never get diseased, they now live longer then before (which was a thousand years). I'm saying that the Krogans take over the Galaxy with the synthesis ending.

#47619
Arian Dynas

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balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.


:D:D:D


**** that noise, I'll do it right now.

Literalist MEANS you take the ending at face value. You don't like the implication that it implies, we get it. Get over it, "cult" also has a negative connotation, but the word accurately describes Christianity (formed around a charismatic leader, centering their worship primarily around him.) So get over connotations. Live up to your name and TAKE THE WORD FOR WHAT IT LITERALLY IS.

#47620
Stigweird85

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Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


Or a very thick skull. ;)


Yknow, back in the earlier days of IT, someone on 4chan said I was indoctrinating BSN, claiming he'd never seen so many people on BSN agree on something before...

Maybe he was right!


No, as much as I hate to say this, I think people were still more united in hatred over ME Deception.  There wasn't a person on the board who actually liked it.  Well, there might have been a couple, but when I say a couple, I mean a couple out of pretty much everyone.  That thing was so bad, it almost makes a literal interpretation of the endings seem good.  Almost.  What can I say, you should see the list of inaccuracies in Deception.  Ouch.


I read deception, there was some issues my main problem was it was just a completely different standard of writing, the fist 3 novels stand on their own as good sci-fi novels whereas four just seemed a little rushed.  The only good thing that came out of out was a complete hatred of Kai Ling. Even that was started in previous books though

#47621
byne

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SubAstris wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Dwalling - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist
pirate1899 - Indoctrinationist
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
byne - Indoctrinationist
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist...


Wait - you're all Indoctrinationists, as in "indoctrinating entities"? No wonder you got so many convincing arguments and leave me all in superficial awe! SubAstris must have a really strong mind! :P


I still prefer "guy-who-takes-game-at-face-value". I don't necessarily adhere to the explicit sense of the text at all times, which literalist implies


Well, Arian would change the list to better suit what you wanted in the list, but then he'd be sacrificing his Listmaking Integrity.

In a few months he will release an expanded list to explain why you're a literalist though, if that helps.


No, he should leave it like it is.  Then there can be lots of speculation for everyone as to WHY he chose to use those words. ;)


Ah hubris...


Dude, unless you think the endings as we are shown didnt actually happen as shown, you take the endings as literally what happened.

Whether or not you see symbolism or allusions to Christ in it doesnt change the fact that you're taking what is being seen as literal.

It doesnt matter whether you think the word literalist is complex enough to describe the special snowflake that you believe yourself to be.

Calling you a literalist because you believe the literal ending we were given is in no way hubris.

#47622
balance5050

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Arian Dynas wrote...

**** that noise, I'll do it right now.

Literalist MEANS you take the ending at face value. You don't like the implication that it implies, we get it. Get over it, "cult" also has a negative connotation, but the word accurately describes Christianity (formed around a charismatic leader, centering their worship primarily around him.) So get over connotations. Live up to your name and TAKE THE WORD FOR WHAT IT LITERALLY IS.



#47623
Arian Dynas

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kyg_20X6 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Go back ten pages, read my theory on what Bioware planned. Think. Be happy. 


Done. An interesting POV. I hope you're right but my interpretation of BW's statements is that the EC was never planned. 

Still...

An EC that explains the current endings as an indoctrination attempt, ends the war appropriately (according to IT, you still haven't beaten the Reapers when you 'wake up') and gives closure for the characters/races.

>

An EC that keeps the endings as they are taken on face value, clarifys some plotholes and gives closure for the characters/races.

>

The current ending interpreted as an indoctrination attempt but left incomplete (Reapers left unbeaten, what happened after 'waking up'?). No closure.

>

Current endings taken on face value. Full of plotholes, no closure.


By interpretation, the EC never WAS planned, they figured people would be content to wait, not that they would ever need additional context.

Also, read the script Dwalling just asked me to post to prove my point about how the endings could be resolved via cutscenes.

#47624
NeoDobby

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balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

In an infinite stretch of time, the chances of such things occurring are probably equal to just destroying the Reapers and letting people get on with it. However with in-built synthetics, organic hybrids would have a better understanding of how machines work, so that when they create new AI, they will be to control and counteract them much better


Dude, you just gave every Krogan synthetics, things are going to be a lot worse in the long run. That's why it's specist, war and genocide happen regardless of what the synthetics do.


So I'm assuming you didn't cure the genophage? Remember that everyone else has been improved by the same amount as well


No, I did cure the Genophage. So now the krogans can have batches of eggs in the thousands, they never get diseased, they now live longer then before (which was a thousand years). I'm saying that the Krogans take over the Galaxy with the synthesis ending.


Hmm, everyone got the best of all the races, right? The fertility and strength of Krogans with the biotic power, life span and attractivity of the asary, the quick thinking of salarians, the military thinking of the Turians - strange mix ... hmm, what was always said to be the best in the humans? Genetic diversity? Oh right, that's out...

#47625
NotAnotherDisplayName

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balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

In an infinite stretch of time, the chances of such things occurring are probably equal to just destroying the Reapers and letting people get on with it. However with in-built synthetics, organic hybrids would have a better understanding of how machines work, so that when they create new AI, they will be to control and counteract them much better


Dude, you just gave every Krogan synthetics, things are going to be a lot worse in the long run. That's why it's specist, war and genocide happen regardless of what the synthetics do.


So I'm assuming you didn't cure the genophage? Remember that everyone else has been improved by the same amount as well


No, I did cure the Genophage. So now the krogans can have batches of eggs in the thousands, they never get diseased, they now live longer then before (which was a thousand years). I'm saying that the Krogans take over the Galaxy with the synthesis ending.


Other than they can't get past their local systems due to all of the relays being blown up.  That and the story implied that the curing on the genophage was a rebirth for the krogan in more than one sense- both physically and culturally, which means they may not be after galactic domination.

But they always did have the best dialog lines, so maybe a Krogan empire isn't all that bad Posted Image