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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#47776
Unschuld

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Rifneno wrote...

There's a few places where they destroyed a few capital ships. That's not even in the same star system as "good enough" though. They're invading pretty much every homeworld at the same time plus many, many colony worlds. And we see multiple capital ships at a single major city on a single planet. How many total do you think there are? Okay, let's go back to that math earlier. The oldest date we have on a Reaper is a billion years. 50,000 years a cycle, that's 20,000 cycles. One of the writers said a while back that they usually don't lose even one capital ship in a cycle. So even assuming they only make a single capital ship from their chosen race, that still puts the low end estimates at over 10,000 capital ships. It takes 3 or 4 dreadnoughts to bring down a single one of them. I'm guessing we don't have 30 to 40 thousand dreadnoughts. And the best part? I'm not even figuring in the destroyers, which "make up the bulk of the Reaper fleet". Not quite as badass as a capital ship, yet even after sustaining the concentrated fire of the entire Migrant Fleet, one was only broken down yet still in-tact.

There's no way the Reapers are losing conventionally. No way. It would be like trying to beat a tyrannosaurus rex with your fists.


They way I like to think of it is this: There's a bunch of entries in the codex explaining the massive kinetic force of say, dreadnought class weapons, being equivalent to some of the more devastating nuclear explosions humanity has been able to create in the past. Since dropping several salvos of nukes on the reaper destroyer would likely vaporize Shep (~1km away at most during the fight)and the homeworld, I think this would be a big no-no for the Quarians. Perhaps they just used their less powerful munitions/guns to take it out?

Sorry if this was answered before.

Modifié par Unschuld, 01 mai 2012 - 02:42 .


#47777
HellishFiend

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Also, yay, I'm on the list! I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

#47778
balance5050

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@Arian Dynas

Thanks for putting that list together! You are doing god's work sir.

#47779
lex0r11

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Hey guys, it's 04:40 over here and it's International Workers' Day.

Sooooo, just read my name on a list.. awesome! What happened in here?
Oh, second on the list.

*manly tears*

Sorry, I'm useless right now. :lol:

Modifié par lex0r11, 01 mai 2012 - 02:47 .


#47780
shepskisaac

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HellishFiend wrote...

I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

???

#47781
llbountyhunter

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IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

???


??????????????????????????????

#47782
liggy002

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So to my fellow ITers, is it true that the child model is named Harbinger in the game files? Somebody told me that.

#47783
lex0r11

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llbountyhunter wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

???


??????????????????????????????



Posted Image

Modifié par lex0r11, 01 mai 2012 - 02:48 .


#47784
llbountyhunter

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liggy002 wrote...

So to my fellow ITers, is it true that the child model is named Harbinger in the game files? Somebody told me that.


I think that piece was said to be a fake....

#47785
balance5050

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HellishFiend wrote...

Also, yay, I'm on the list! I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.


Me too man!! IT is huge! regardless of if it was intended or not.

#47786
shepskisaac

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Yes, these were exactly my reactions. How are you becoming a part of gaming history by coming up with an interpretation of an ending lol?

#47787
Lokanaiya

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HellishFiend wrote...

I never got the impression the majority of the Reaper forces were in that battle. Do you have anything that supports that? If you do, I might be willing to reconsider my position, but I dont recall any bits of dialog or anything suggesting that the Reapers shifted any forces over to Earth that werent already there.


I think several people in game said that a large number of Reapers were there, at least. More than are in any other single place. Also, see my post on the previous page for a few methods on how to defeat the Reapers without a MacGuffin.

#47788
BatmanTurian

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Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

And, in addition, heroes we've forgotten; Beast919, First compiler of evidence, Eumerin, first Cynic to present a solid argument, Dranume, first to add evidence to the argument, following byne.

There's the first wave of names, I managed to get to page 5, page 6 and beyond are being worked on, and will be expanded, als includes anyone whom popped into my head while I was working on this. This'll take a while for our memorial, but feel free to chip in if you like.


Vera nice. I liiike.


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#47789
llbountyhunter

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HellishFiend wrote...

I never got the impression the majority of the Reaper forces were in that battle. Do you have anything that supports that? If you do, I might be willing to reconsider my position, but I dont recall any bits of dialog or anything suggesting that the Reapers shifted any forces over to Earth that werent already there.


I think the prothean VI said something about this.... not sure though. 

(also  edited my post, might want to take a look at it.)

#47790
balance5050

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IsaacShep wrote...

Yes, these were exactly my reactions. How are you becoming a part of gaming history by coming up with an interpretation of an ending lol?


U jelly? Yea, u jelly.

#47791
McWhitey3

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Played the destroy ending again...anyone else notice (maybe mentioned before) that as soon as you start shooting the capsule Shepard doesn't seem wounded anymore. He really goes from wounded and limping to normal.

#47792
llbountyhunter

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llbountyhunter wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


i think you missed my point completly.    


No, I got your point. You're suggesting that indoctrination acts as some kind of buffer against being defeated by conventional means. 


to an extent. it wasnt so much about my anology as the idea behind it.

i mean why do the reapers seam so powerfull? because thats how they project themselvs, they WANT you to think theres no hope, that your facing an unstoppable enemy, to cause fractures from within. and while the reapers ARE very powerfull they do have there limits. the battle of swords proves that if you remaind organised and united the possiblity of a conveional win doesnt seem so remote anymore.

to sum up: to reapers seem unstoppable only because thats what they want you to think.


Do they want you to think that? Absolutely. Does that mean it isnt true? Not necessarily. If you think about it, the Sword vs Reapers battle didnt prove anything we didnt already know. We already knew Reaper capital ships could be destroyed. But can their forces, as a whole, ever be defeated? No, they cant. There arent enough allied dreadnaughts in the entire galaxy to take down even a significant fraction of Reaper capital ships, and thats not even including other factors like the Destroyers, ground forces, indoctrination, etc. It's simply not possible. It's a matter of winning a battle vs winning a war. 


your basing your causualties on previous reaper confrontations, confrontations in which we were NOT organized and fighting as one. the battle of swords is the only such confrontation. it is also the only battle were we see that the majority of the causalties being on the reaper side.

also the majority of the reaper forces were in that battle. win that and you can win the war. easy.



#47793
HellishFiend

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IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

???


As it stands, this is already one of the biggest controversies in gaming history. If IT turns out to be Bioware's plan all along (and they can prove that it was), well...... (Councilor Valern, lol)

Needless to say, it will be talked about perhaps indefinitely and journalized into history, and this huge forum spectacle we have going on here (along with the Charity drive, retake movement, etc) is a big part of that, and will be mentioned in said journalization. If IT turns out to be true, we'll be able to take pride in the fact that we were part of the group that figured it out. 

#47794
llbountyhunter

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balance5050 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Also, yay, I'm on the list! I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.


Me too man!! IT is huge! regardless of if it was intended or not.


theyll write sotries about us someday.....

#47795
Big G13

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lex0r11 wrote...

Hey guys, it's 04:40 over here and it's International Workers' Day.

Sooooo, just read my name on a list.. awesome! What happened in here?
Oh, second on the list.

*manly tears*

Sorry, I'm useless right now. :lol:

You Euros. Nothing but vacation for you guys. (got an extra room. I'd like to move)

#47796
shepskisaac

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HellishFiend wrote...

If IT turns out to be true

Urhm, yeah. IF. And most know it won't happen anyway

#47797
llbountyhunter

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IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

If IT turns out to be true

Urhm, yeah. IF. And most know it won't happen anyway


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#47798
Icinix

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HellishFiend wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I do still feel like we are becoming part of video gaming history by being involved with this topic.

???


As it stands, this is already one of the biggest controversies in gaming history. If IT turns out to be Bioware's plan all along (and they can prove that it was), well...... (Councilor Valern, lol)

Needless to say, it will be talked about perhaps indefinitely and journalized into history, and this huge forum spectacle we have going on here (along with the Charity drive, retake movement, etc) is a big part of that, and will be mentioned in said journalization. If IT turns out to be true, we'll be able to take pride in the fact that we were part of the group that figured it out. 


It was also be a defining moment in video game history where the complete game can only be obtained through an internet connection months after the game has been completed. I don't believe any game has tried to do that before.

#47799
HellishFiend

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llbountyhunter wrote...

your basing your causualties on previous reaper confrontations, confrontations in which we were NOT organized and fighting as one. the battle of swords is the only such confrontation. it is also the only battle were we see that the majority of the causalties being on the reaper side.


Yes, I'm basing my casualties on previous reaper confrontations, but you're attacking one aspect of the problem when there is a far bigger picture going on (hence why I chose the bacteria/virus analogy instead of a tank/infantry analogy. I think our difference in analogies is very indicative of the difference in our mentality when approaching the issue).

Lets assume for a moment that you're right, that the Reaper capital ships can be defeated conventionally (and you'll never convince me that is possible based on the evidence we have available), what about the destroyers? What about indoctrinated agents? What about ground forces? What if the Reapers get smart, and resort to guerilla tactics or some other strategy that would capitalize on their technological superiority? What if they do what they did in previous cycles and deactivate the mass relays?

You get the idea....

#47800
balance5050

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IsaacShep wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

If IT turns out to be true

Urhm, yeah. IF. And most know it won't happen anyway


Actually most people don't KNOW anything concerning the EC, hence the speculation. So just sit back and watch history unfold, ok?