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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#47901
gunslinger_ruiz

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HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...



Wouldn't it be funny if in Red, you're shooting Harbinger in the face?


I was shooting Harbinger in the face my entire run to the beam. Didnt accomplish much. :unsure:


I did the same thing, firing concussive rounds as well, kind of a fun thing to do but even if you slapped a health bar on Harbinger theres no way you're taking him down with those little guns.

#47902
XXIceColdXX

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http://www.masseffec...p;  

Heres a link to a survey Jessica Merizan is taking interest in. Part of the survey involves the ending and the Indoctrination theory.

Modifié par XXIceColdXX, 01 mai 2012 - 05:36 .


#47903
N7L4D

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Im on the list, Yes! Yes! Yes!  :D

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

byne - Indoctrinationist 
lex0r11 - Indoctrinationist 
GBGriffin - Literalist Apologist
Ilbountyhunter - Indoctrinationist
estebanus - Indoctrinationist 
Earthborn_Shepard - Indoctrinationist
ExtendedCut - Indoctrinationist
Golferguy758 - Indoctrinationist
Simon_Says - Indoctrinationist
HellishFiend - Indoctrinationist
spotlessvoid - Indoctrinationist
Tirian Thorn - Indoctrinationist
Emperor_Ike - Indoctrinationist
Sero303 - Indoctrinationist
IronSabbath88 - Indoctrinationist
BatmanTurian - Indoctrinationist
Uncle Jo - Indoctrinationist Cynic
Rastlin Majare 1992 - Indoctrinationist
Dwailing - Indoctrinationist
MaximizedAction - Indoctrinationist
Balance5050 - Indoctrinationist
JadeBaby88 - Indoctrinationist
DJBare - Indoctrinationist Cynic
gunslinger_ruiz - Indoctrinationist
n00bsauce2012 - Indoctrinationist
Unschuld - Indoctrinationist
Big G13 - Indoctrinationist
Hawk227 - Indoctrinationist
N7L4D - Indoctrinationist
protognosis - Indoctrinationist
Domanese - Indoctrinationist
schneeland - Indoctrinationist
Bleeding Uranium - Indoctrinationist
Rifneno - Indoctrinationist
Nauks - Indoctrinationist Cynic
Asharad Hett - Indoctrinationist
Megumi Azusa - Indoctrinationist Cynic
NotAnotherDisplayName - Indoctrinationist Cynic
EpyonX3 - Indoctrinationist Cynic
Sammuthegreat - Indoctrinationist 
Vahilor - Indoctrinationist Cynic
Lokanaiya - Indoctrinationist
marcelo_sdk - Nonpartisan
kyg_20X6 - Literalist
Arbalor4 - Indoctrinationist
bigstig - Indoctrinationist
Big Bad - Indoctrinationist
Auralius Carolus - Indoctrinationist
TheConstantOne - Indoctrinationist
Gormane01 - Indoctrinationist
liggy002 - Indoctrinationist
Beast919 - Indoctrinationist
iggy1eco - Indoctrinationist
pirate1802 - Indoctrinationist
NeoDobby - Indoctrinationist
SubAstris - Literalist (get over it you hippie)
Arashi08 - Indoctrinationist
IsaacShep - Literalist
McWhitey3 - Indoctrinationist
Icinix - Indoctrinationist
mrfinke - Indoctrinationist
Phydeaux314 - Nonpartisan
MrRiadon - Indoctrinationist
Teddie Sage - Indoctrinationist
Eumerin - Indoctrinationist Cynic
AxisEvolve - Indoctrinationist
galaxy366 - Indoctrinationist
Dranume - Indoctrinationist
ZIPO396  - Indoctrinationist
The Savage Nympth - Indoctrinationist
Makrys - Indoctrinationist
Revan67 - Nonpartisan
Sajuro - Nonpartisan
Saintthanksgiving - Indoctrinationist
Luigitornado - Virtualist
Sereaph502 - Indoctrinationist
Nerana - Nonpartisan
Xellith - Nonpartisan
Foulpancake - Nonpartisan
Doomhams - Indoctrinationist
raeting - Literalist
Slappy Ya Face - Indoctrinationist
KingNothin125 - Indoctrinationist
Serp86 - Indoctrinationist
AgentB406 - Indoctrinationist
Kirkknight - Indoctrinationist
slyko227 - Indoctrinationist
Nobrandminda - Nonpartisan
AlCord - Nonpartisan
Aligalipe - Indoctrinationist
Gam3Ov3r - Indoctrinationist
ragewin - Indoctrinationist
movieguyabw - Literalist
Davnort - Indoctrinationist
Militarized - Literalist
FugitiveMind - Nonpartisan
Dr.Detective - Literalist
ibage - Literalist
killakidmb - Indoctrinationist
M U P P 3 T Z - Indoctrinationist
Asuka Bianchi - Indoctrinationist
Lord Nikon 001 - Indoctrinationist
SoulfulMiles - Indoctrinationist
Greed1914 - Indoctrinationist
Unender - Indoctrinationist
The Chosen Predator - Indoctrinationist
X-Frame - Indoctrinationist
kalamity116 - Nonpartisan
littleork - Indoctrinationist
XenoAlbedo - Indoctrinationist
John Locke N7 - Indoctrinationist
idunhaveaname - Nonpartisan
Adugan - Literalist
Ice Cold J - Literalist
krystalevenstar - Indoctrinationist
Odd Bet - Indoctrinationist
k8ee - Indoctrinationist
Stephanid98 - Indoctrinationist
CBGB - Indoctrinationist
RedDeadRemix - Indoctrinationist
Manou1 - Indoctrinationist
iSpitfireee - Indoctrinationist
MPSai - Nonpartisan
Madcat124 - Nonpartisan
Pasicrates - Indoctrinationist
Ariaya - Indoctrinationist
thavleifrim - Indoctrinationist
MrChowderClam - Nonpartisan
TheProfessor234 - Indoctrinationist
Doronamo - Nonpartisan
hector7rau - Nonpartisan
magnetite - Indoctrinationist
yummysoap - Literalist
Iavosslayer - Indoctrinationist
Arlind Webb - Indoctrinationist
Sovereign z - Indoctrinationist
Ebannaw1 - Indoctrinationist
xGhost4000x - Indoctrinationist
hatori1181 - Indoctrinationist
seli - Nonpartisan
overburning - Nonpartisan
Ifeus - Indoctrinationist
CARL_DF90 - Indoctrinationist
kj0600 - Indoctrinationist
GoblinSapper - Indoctrinationist
TryckSh0t - Indoctrinationist
xDarkspace - Indoctrinationist
VictorianTrash - Indoctrinationist Cynic
Auresta - Indoctrinationist
rolson00 - Indoctrinationist
Trisskit - Indoctrinationist
aderynbrea - Indoctrinationist
fr33stylez - Literalist
mynameisdanza - Indoctrinationist
SandTrout - Nonpartisan
Loliliana - Nonpartisan
Aethgeir - Literalist 
humes spork - Indoctrinationist
Merc3ast - Indoctrinationist
Ellythe - Indoctrinationist
FoxShadowblade - Indoctrinationist
jake21221 - Indoctrinationist
CajunRexShepard - Indoctrinationist 
Sundance31us - Indoctrinationist
Humanoid_Typhon - Literalist

And, in addition, heroes we've forgotten; Beast919, First compiler of evidence, Eumerin, first Cynic to present a solid argument, Dranume, first to add evidence to the argument, humes spork, first to sugguest the Shepard Alive scene contained concrete. k8ee, M U P P 3 T Z, Odd Bet, littleork, Beast919, the first regulars, now gone. Ariaya, creator of the "Destruction hallucinations are reapers trying to make Shepard despair" theory. Magnetite, who noticed the echo to be found in  the voices, as well as the whispers in the ambient music. Kyrstalevenstar, whom first dissected the Star Child's logic.

Pages 1-10, 1900-1915

I briefly considered having a seperate list for trolls, but in the end, so long as they aren't blatantly flaming and just either dumb or capable of putting up SOME kind of argument, then I'll leave 'em on. I know, my magnanimity knows no bounds.

Also, finding some old evidence, perhaps we should dig through our own past, a bit archaeology next time we're bored., like these little gems;

http://social.biowar...27423/9#9737069 
http://social.biowar...27423/9#9736659 
http://social.biowar...27423/9#9736802 

[/quote]

You are now.

[/quote]

#47904
BleedingUranium

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HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Was this brought up before that TIM said at the beginning of the game "I'm not looking for your approval" then goes on to try and convince Shepard that control is the best solution?

I'm sure it has but might as well point it out if it hasn't


I've brought it up before, and I'm sure others have too. It is a very good point. The game seems to go out of its way to show you that the way TIM acts at the end goes completely against his character. Heck, they dont even play his music!


That was the first thing I really found weird about the ending, his character and lack of music.

#47905
gunslinger_ruiz

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Alright, here's a big stretch and leap in logic but it's new to my brain so here we go.

Some people have said the Destroy options looks like one of the Reaper tubes from ME2 Collector base, and while it does look familiar what if this... tube is some kind of Reaper stasis pod? Something like what the Collectors used to store colonists but it's full on Reaper tech. Taking it a step further, what if this pod has Shepard's body in it? What if after being blasted by Harbinger you were snatched by some type of Husks and brought to some Reaper facility there on Earth near the beam, stuffed inside one of these pods to be processed or/and brought to the Citadel. if that's the case the Destroy option has you figuring out a way to blast your way out of this stasis pod, maybe you had the gun with you and shot it, or you resisted the Indoctrination on such a level that it overloaded all of the Reaper's tech, causing explosions and propelling you from this reaper "pod" and into a nearby pile of rubble in London.

This is the only way I can figure there being some unidentifiable reaper...plates? In Shepard's breath scene. The oval shaped objects near the undefined "vehicle" is what I refer to. Like I said, this is a huge leap in logic but have an image of the tube anyway.

Posted Image

For anyone keeping score I'm on view 150-something of my Shepard's breath scene recording. And counting. Too bad I don't have some video editing software I could brighten it up even more.

#47906
Big G13

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

http://www.masseffec...p;  

I took that survey. Left a nice, pointed message at the end. Made me feel a little better. Like shooting at Harby on the way the beam. (see what I did there)

#47907
gunslinger_ruiz

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double post sorry ><

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 01 mai 2012 - 05:39 .


#47908
BatmanTurian

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Alright, here's a big stretch and leap in logic but it's new to my brain so here we go.

Some people have said the Destroy options looks like one of the Reaper tubes from ME2 Collector base, and while it does look familiar what if this... tube is some kind of Reaper stasis pod? Something like what the Collectors used to store colonists but it's full on Reaper tech. Taking it a step further, what if this pod has Shepard's body in it? What if after being blasted by Harbinger you were snatched by some type of Husks and brought to some Reaper facility there on Earth near the beam, stuffed inside one of these pods to be processed or/and brought to the Citadel. if that's the case the Destroy option has you figuring out a way to blast your way out of this stasis pod, maybe you had the gun with you and shot it, or you resisted the Indoctrination on such a level that it overloaded all of the Reaper's tech, causing explosions and propelling you from this reaper "pod" and into a nearby pile of rubble in London.

This is the only way I can figure there being some unidentifiable reaper...plates? In Shepard's breath scene. The oval shaped objects near the undefined "vehicle" is what I refer to. Like I said, this is a huge leap in logic but have an image of the tube anyway.

*snip*

For anyone keeping score I'm on view 150-something of my Shepard's breath scene recording. And counting. Too bad I don't have some video editing software I could brighten it up even more.


First, I like your creativity.

Second, this implies Shepard actually went to the citadel and survived a hundreds-of-megatons explosion and then somehow ended up on Earth...

Do you see the problem with this?

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 01 mai 2012 - 05:42 .


#47909
byne

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Big G13 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

http://www.masseffec...p;&nbsp;&nbsp;

I took that survey. Left a nice, pointed message at the end. Made me feel a little better. Like shooting at Harby on the way the beam. (see what I did there)


I unloaded all my ammo into Harby's face.

On one run, I picked up the second Cain from the first part of the Earth level and tried bringing it with me to shoot Harby with. I had it during the turret part of the FOB, but it went away after that, and they didnt let me bring it on the rest of the mission :(

#47910
HellishFiend

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blooregard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Was this brought up before that TIM said at the beginning of the game "I'm not looking for your approval" then goes on to try and convince Shepard that control is the best solution?

I'm sure it has but might as well point it out if it hasn't


I've brought it up before, and I'm sure others have too. It is a very good point. The game seems to go out of its way to show you that the way TIM acts at the end goes completely against his character. Heck, they dont even play his music!






Did they play his theme on Thessia? I've been so disappointed in the game I stop playing after Rannoch (where dispite what people say is the second greatest scene in the game after Tuchanka of course.)


I'm fairly certain that his theme always plays every time you speak with him spanning all the way back to the very beginning of ME2. That includes the conversation on Thessia, as well as all the others in ME3. 

#47911
HellishFiend

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Alright, here's a big stretch and leap in logic but it's new to my brain so here we go.

Some people have said the Destroy options looks like one of the Reaper tubes from ME2 Collector base, and while it does look familiar what if this... tube is some kind of Reaper stasis pod? Something like what the Collectors used to store colonists but it's full on Reaper tech. Taking it a step further, what if this pod has Shepard's body in it? What if after being blasted by Harbinger you were snatched by some type of Husks and brought to some Reaper facility there on Earth near the beam, stuffed inside one of these pods to be processed or/and brought to the Citadel. if that's the case the Destroy option has you figuring out a way to blast your way out of this stasis pod, maybe you had the gun with you and shot it, or you resisted the Indoctrination on such a level that it overloaded all of the Reaper's tech, causing explosions and propelling you from this reaper "pod" and into a nearby pile of rubble in London.

This is the only way I can figure there being some unidentifiable reaper...plates? In Shepard's breath scene. The oval shaped objects near the undefined "vehicle" is what I refer to. Like I said, this is a huge leap in logic but have an image of the tube anyway.

Posted Image

For anyone keeping score I'm on view 150-something of my Shepard's breath scene recording. And counting. Too bad I don't have some video editing software I could brighten it up even more.


It would be crazy to think that there wont be anything in the EC that we didnt see coming, so I figure the more crazy ideas like this we come up with, the more chances we have to get one of them right! Keep them coming! :D

#47912
MegumiAzusa

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Btw back to the ending enumeration. Why end both blue endings on "AndReapersLeave"? Did they plan to include an ending without "AndReapersLeave" that they had to add that part? It makes me wonder why that is specifically mentioned.

#47913
blooregard

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HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Was this brought up before that TIM said at the beginning of the game "I'm not looking for your approval" then goes on to try and convince Shepard that control is the best solution?

I'm sure it has but might as well point it out if it hasn't


I've brought it up before, and I'm sure others have too. It is a very good point. The game seems to go out of its way to show you that the way TIM acts at the end goes completely against his character. Heck, they dont even play his music!






Did they play his theme on Thessia? I've been so disappointed in the game I stop playing after Rannoch (where dispite what people say is the second greatest scene in the game after Tuchanka of course.)


I'm fairly certain that his theme always plays every time you speak with him spanning all the way back to the very beginning of ME2. That includes the conversation on Thessia, as well as all the others in ME3. 



Yeah I just watched the Thessia scene and they played the music.

That leave only the end scene the only TIM scene they don't play his theme song...weird

#47914
XXIceColdXX

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byne wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

http://www.masseffec...p;&nbsp;&nbsp;

I took that survey. Left a nice, pointed message at the end. Made me feel a little better. Like shooting at Harby on the way the beam. (see what I did there)


I unloaded all my ammo into Harby's face.

On one run, I picked up the second Cain from the first part of the Earth level and tried bringing it with me to shoot Harby with. I had it during the turret part of the FOB, but it went away after that, and they didnt let me bring it on the rest of the mission :(

Nice work.

#47915
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw back to the ending enumeration. Why end both blue endings on "AndReapersLeave"? Did they plan to include an ending without "AndReapersLeave" that they had to add that part? It makes me wonder why that is specifically mentioned.


I wouldnt read too much into that. Programmers sometimes do things like that just to plan for possibilities that never develop. I'm sure there are literally dozens of extraneous variables throughout the game, and we just happen to have reason to take notice of this one. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying it isnt something I think we should read too much into.

#47916
byne

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw back to the ending enumeration. Why end both blue endings on "AndReapersLeave"? Did they plan to include an ending without "AndReapersLeave" that they had to add that part? It makes me wonder why that is specifically mentioned.


Why even have multiple blue endings? Nothing changes except whether the soldiers cheer or not. Why your EMS determines whether or not the soldiers are happy to be the first cycle in galactic history not to be harvested always confused me.

Though, to be fair, if I were one of the soldiers fighting on the ground, and saw the Reapers just randomly fly off, my reaction would probably be more similiar to the low EMS one. Just standing there confused wondering what the hell just happened.

#47917
gunslinger_ruiz

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BatmanTurian wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Alright, here's a big stretch and leap in logic but it's new to my brain so here we go.

Some people have said the Destroy options looks like one of the Reaper tubes from ME2 Collector base, and while it does look familiar what if this... tube is some kind of Reaper stasis pod? Something like what the Collectors used to store colonists but it's full on Reaper tech. Taking it a step further, what if this pod has Shepard's body in it? What if after being blasted by Harbinger you were snatched by some type of Husks and brought to some Reaper facility there on Earth near the beam, stuffed inside one of these pods to be processed or/and brought to the Citadel. if that's the case the Destroy option has you figuring out a way to blast your way out of this stasis pod, maybe you had the gun with you and shot it, or you resisted the Indoctrination on such a level that it overloaded all of the Reaper's tech, causing explosions and propelling you from this reaper "pod" and into a nearby pile of rubble in London.

This is the only way I can figure there being some unidentifiable reaper...plates? In Shepard's breath scene. The oval shaped objects near the undefined "vehicle" is what I refer to. Like I said, this is a huge leap in logic but have an image of the tube anyway.

*snip*

For anyone keeping score I'm on view 150-something of my Shepard's breath scene recording. And counting. Too bad I don't have some video editing software I could brighten it up even more.


First, I like your creativity.

Second, this implies Shepard actually went to the citadel and survived a hundreds-of-megatons explosion and then somehow ended up on Earth...

Do you see the problem with this?


That's assuming the "pod" with Shepard in it made it to the Citadel, I also made mention/guessed the pod may just be at a Reaper facility near hte beam. The Breath scene almost defintiley takes place on Earth.

#47918
HellishFiend

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blooregard wrote...

Yeah I just watched the Thessia scene and they played the music.

That leave only the end scene the only TIM scene they don't play his theme song...weird


Definitely weird. I wouldnt say it stands on its own as one of the stronger pieces of evidence, but when you combine it with all the other strange things in that scene (even just about TIM himself), it all seems to add up to something. 

#47919
MegumiAzusa

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blooregard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Was this brought up before that TIM said at the beginning of the game "I'm not looking for your approval" then goes on to try and convince Shepard that control is the best solution?

I'm sure it has but might as well point it out if it hasn't


I've brought it up before, and I'm sure others have too. It is a very good point. The game seems to go out of its way to show you that the way TIM acts at the end goes completely against his character. Heck, they dont even play his music!

Did they play his theme on Thessia? I've been so disappointed in the game I stop playing after Rannoch (where dispite what people say is the second greatest scene in the game after Tuchanka of course.)

Yes it played on Thessia.

#47920
gunslinger_ruiz

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HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...



It would be crazy to think that there wont be anything in the EC that we didnt see coming, so I figure the more crazy ideas like this we come up with, the more chances we have to get one of them right! Keep them coming! :D


I'll keep the crazy coming don't you worry!

#47921
MegumiAzusa

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byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw back to the ending enumeration. Why end both blue endings on "AndReapersLeave"? Did they plan to include an ending without "AndReapersLeave" that they had to add that part? It makes me wonder why that is specifically mentioned.


Why even have multiple blue endings? Nothing changes except whether the soldiers cheer or not. Why your EMS determines whether or not the soldiers are happy to be the first cycle in galactic history not to be harvested always confused me.

Though, to be fair, if I were one of the soldiers fighting on the ground, and saw the Reapers just randomly fly off, my reaction would probably be more similiar to the low EMS one. Just standing there confused wondering what the hell just happened.

Big Ben still gets fragged with low EMS. Also there are several buildings burning, while it's all Ok with higer EMS.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 01 mai 2012 - 05:57 .


#47922
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw back to the ending enumeration. Why end both blue endings on "AndReapersLeave"? Did they plan to include an ending without "AndReapersLeave" that they had to add that part? It makes me wonder why that is specifically mentioned.


Why even have multiple blue endings? Nothing changes except whether the soldiers cheer or not. Why your EMS determines whether or not the soldiers are happy to be the first cycle in galactic history not to be harvested always confused me.

Though, to be fair, if I were one of the soldiers fighting on the ground, and saw the Reapers just randomly fly off, my reaction would probably be more similiar to the low EMS one. Just standing there confused wondering what the hell just happened.

Big Ben still gets fragged with low EMS.


Speaking of Big Ben, I strongly believe that it is symbolic. It was in probably the most famous of the trailers that were released for the game, and it just so happens that it being destroyed/not destroyed is one of the ONLY differences in the various endings we can get. I think it symbolizes the amount of hope that Shepard has going into the final stretch. 

#47923
blooregard

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HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Yeah I just watched the Thessia scene and they played the music.

That leave only the end scene the only TIM scene they don't play his theme song...weird


Definitely weird. I wouldnt say it stands on its own as one of the stronger pieces of evidence, but when you combine it with all the other strange things in that scene (even just about TIM himself), it all seems to add up to something. 



TIM's change of heart and the kid running into the building before it was lasered are probably the two biggest pieces of evidence.

Other big pieces are the various Reaper growls heard during the pre-catalyst scene and everybody ignoring the starchild on Earth.

Thats about all I can think of as the major stuff/hard to explain away stuff.

#47924
BleedingUranium

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Something I've said before, but hey, gotta pass time Posted Image

Given how much the beam area looks like Star Kid's area, I think Shep's mind is trying to tell him going into the beam in reality would be a bad idea.

Why would the Reapers close the Citadel, which is virtually impossible to get into, but then connect a transport beam to it, and only defend it with a single Destroyer? And Harbinger gets there so late that at least Shepard survives, maybe more. Seems a lot like a trap to me Posted Image

#47925
MegumiAzusa

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Uh maybe the most obvious one as it gets shoved right in your face, but look in the background in the scene where they are cheering - or not. It's either a wasteland with raging fires or mostly just damaged.