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[MegumiAzusa]

llbountyhunter wrote...

so shepard gets grazed by the beam and keeps running? but the other beam doeant hit him and his armor gets destroyed?

all these problems can be avoided 

Sounds more like the rule of cool to me at that point. Also: http://tvtropes.org/...ArtisticLicense

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 01 mai 2012 - 03:41 .

[llbountyhunter]

Rosewind wrote...

Yeah even if you just stand there they don't hit you.

but when your running they do. 

look at many differnt videos and in all  of them 
(i think... ive seen alot of them) there is a beam that hits you just before the final beam

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

But how is this pre-hallucination hallucination is enabled?

same way as the other ones. actually even easier. 

shuttle gets hit (by some mysetrous force never mentioned)  shepard is unconsious- indoctrination begins

also there is no need for the whole "why didnt harbingers beam kill him" thing anymore because it was already IT at this point

It is never shown that the beam hits, just that it got very very close.

im pretty sure it hits....  just before the screen fades you can see some of the.... "laser shrapnel?" behind you, which means you were inside the impact radius.

but anyways,  like i said it can all be averted.

This is about as far as it gets:
~~~~
As you can see nothing is behind you, it's still all in front.

you cant tell from a picture....<_< but in the video it seems like some of the waves are going behind you. 

also just because it blacks out we assume it doesnt hit shepard? thats a very LITTERAL interpertation.
"oh no! the beams about to hit me! here, let me just close my eyes...."


also some of the other beams DO hit you. it even looks like its done on purpose.

Yes it is on purpose but they never hit directly.

so shepard gets grazed by the beam and keeps running? but the other beam doeant hit him and his armor gets destroyed?

all these problems can be avoided 

The problem with pre-harbinger beam theories is that it would be a very poor implementation of the idea. You're given zero information about what caused that crash and what happened in the few moments the screen is black, but that runs contrary to the idea of IT; that the designers are giving the players a chance to spot it. Personally I'd be incredibly dissapointed if it WAS when the hallucination began, as it's not set up in any way. Plus then you have to explain the run at the conduit, which doesn't strike me as very dreamlike and has no significance if Shep is unconcious. it also doesn't jam with the orginal script ideas, while harbingers beam IT clearly fits in.

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hmm what Vendetta said about the Crucible "Thus far, none have successfully defeated the Reapers with it." this implies the possibility of others completing the Crucible but never managed to defeat the Reapers nonetheless. This might explain why the Leviathan is mostly organic while the current ones are mostly machines.

I can not remember where I read it but I saw some speculate that Omega was the Prothean crucible cause it looks kinda like it.

No, Omega was completely built in "our" cycle.

Completely incorrect actually.  The origin of Omega was a mystery.  There were lots of rumors but no one really knew who build it.  The most common theory was that the Protheans built it as a mining station as Rosewind mentioned.

However the books pretty much tell us who built it.  The same entities who built the Citadel and the mass relays that everyone thought were also of Prothean design.  The Reapers.  Paul Grayson, in one of his indoctrinated trips, heard voices boasting about how "the works of our kind endure" and saw blueprints of Omega in his mind, blueprints he'd never actually seen.

Although, I don't see how that theory would explain the Leviathan of Dis' nature?  Come to think of it, I hope we get an explanation on that thing someday.  No way it sat there for a billion years without being found by other cultures.  And if Jartar has any form of life, why didn't the thing decompose.  ...  And most importantly, am I the only one who hears "Jar-Jar" instead of "Jartar"?

Edit:  For clarification, I meant the "completely" as a poor play on words from the usage in the quoted post.  Re-reading, I can see how it could be taken a lot more negatively than intended.  Opps.

Modifié par Rifneno, 01 mai 2012 - 03:49 .

[spotlessvoid]

I've said this before. How invested in the story can someone be if they haven't decided to bother to play major DLC with significant narrative consequences?

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

But how is this pre-hallucination hallucination is enabled?

same way as the other ones. actually even easier. 

shuttle gets hit (by some mysetrous force never mentioned)  shepard is unconsious- indoctrination begins

also there is no need for the whole "why didnt harbingers beam kill him" thing anymore because it was already IT at this point

It is never shown that the beam hits, just that it got very very close.

im pretty sure it hits....  just before the screen fades you can see some of the.... "laser shrapnel?" behind you, which means you were inside the impact radius.

but anyways,  like i said it can all be averted.

This is about as far as it gets:
~~~~
As you can see nothing is behind you, it's still all in front.

you cant tell from a picture....<_< but in the video it seems like some of the waves are going behind you. 

also just because it blacks out we assume it doesnt hit shepard? thats a very LITTERAL interpertation.
"oh no! the beams about to hit me! here, let me just close my eyes...."


also some of the other beams DO hit you. it even looks like its done on purpose.

Yes it is on purpose but they never hit directly.

so shepard gets grazed by the beam and keeps running? but the other beam doeant hit him and his armor gets destroyed?

all these problems can be avoided 

The problem with pre-harbinger beam theories is that it would be a very poor implementation of the idea. You're given zero information about what caused that crash and what happened in the few moments the screen is black, but that runs contrary to the idea of IT; that the designers are giving the players a chance to spot it. Personally I'd be incredibly dissapointed if it WAS when the hallucination began, as it's not set up in any way. Plus then you have to explain the run at the conduit, which doesn't strike me as very dreamlike and has no significance if Shep is unconcious. it also doesn't jam with the orginal script ideas, while harbingers beam IT clearly fits in.

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
shepard dousnt act himself after shuttle gets hit
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 01 mai 2012 - 03:56 .

[SS2Dante]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I've said this before. How invested in the story can someone be if they haven't decided to bother to play major DLC with significant narrative consequences?

Referring to from Ashes? If not disregard
I would say I'm pretty damn invested, but I didn't get From Ashes. Didn't have any money on my account when I got ME3 and due to a weird card reading screwup I have to buy my points physically, and really didn't want to wait. Plus if you haven't got the DLC you don't know what "significant narrative consequences" it contains. I thought it'd just be a new character with some interesting backstory.

[Rosewind]

Yeah it is very intriguing because it says they re-activated but from what we see even dead reapers can still indoctrinate so maybe it was a early reaper design that was some how flawed?

Edit: was at Riff, to lazy to quote

Modifié par Rosewind, 01 mai 2012 - 03:53 .

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

But how is this pre-hallucination hallucination is enabled?

same way as the other ones. actually even easier. 

shuttle gets hit (by some mysetrous force never mentioned)  shepard is unconsious- indoctrination begins

also there is no need for the whole "why didnt harbingers beam kill him" thing anymore because it was already IT at this point

It is never shown that the beam hits, just that it got very very close.

im pretty sure it hits....  just before the screen fades you can see some of the.... "laser shrapnel?" behind you, which means you were inside the impact radius.

but anyways,  like i said it can all be averted.

This is about as far as it gets:
~~~~
As you can see nothing is behind you, it's still all in front.

you cant tell from a picture....<_< but in the video it seems like some of the waves are going behind you. 

also just because it blacks out we assume it doesnt hit shepard? thats a very LITTERAL interpertation.
"oh no! the beams about to hit me! here, let me just close my eyes...."


also some of the other beams DO hit you. it even looks like its done on purpose.

Yes it is on purpose but they never hit directly.

so shepard gets grazed by the beam and keeps running? but the other beam doeant hit him and his armor gets destroyed?

all these problems can be avoided 

The problem with pre-harbinger beam theories is that it would be a very poor implementation of the idea. You're given zero information about what caused that crash and what happened in the few moments the screen is black, but that runs contrary to the idea of IT; that the designers are giving the players a chance to spot it. Personally I'd be incredibly dissapointed if it WAS when the hallucination began, as it's not set up in any way. Plus then you have to explain the run at the conduit, which doesn't strike me as very dreamlike and has no significance if Shep is unconcious. it also doesn't jam with the orginal script ideas, while harbingers beam IT clearly fits in.

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

+ would suffice to explain how only one single Reaper was "defending" the beam...Harbinger wasn't even defending it. You don't defend someone by standing behind them, while someone's attacking from the other side.
He'd have landed between the ground team and the beam.

[Rosewind]

Sorry but something still bugs me about Omega, if it is unimportant why dose TIM take it over?

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

It has trees (even in normal IT you can't really call them dream trees because they are different) in one location far off to the right. Doll like bodies? Are you referring to the crappy textures at the base of the thing? because during a normal run you don't get anywhere near them :S
Didn't see a blurry atmosphere.
And what's odd about Harbinger?

Starting a dream sequence after a random, unexplained and unimportant car crash isn't clever, it's just a major **** YOU to the player. Narratively it's awful. And it also doesn't work with the idea that the final reload is positioned to show you the start of the dream.

Not that I say it's impossible, of course.

[llbountyhunter]

Rosewind wrote...

Sorry but something still bugs me about Omega, if it is unimportant why dose TIM take it over?

it was breifly explained that TIM used it a hub for transport from the omega 4 relay.

though there *might be something more.

[Lakeshow1986]

Anyone find it odd when Shepard is told Harbinger is coming, as if he's scared? This man/woman has killed 5 reapers at this point but the sheer mention of Harbinger causes him/her to poo themselves, as if it was a forthcoming nightmare.

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

It has trees (even in normal IT you can't really call them dream trees because they are different) in one location far off to the right. Doll like bodies? Are you referring to the crappy textures at the base of the thing? because during a normal run you don't get anywhere near them :S
Didn't see a blurry atmosphere.
And what's odd about Harbinger?

Starting a dream sequence after a random, unexplained and unimportant car crash isn't clever, it's just a major **** YOU to the player. Narratively it's awful. And it also doesn't work with the idea that the final reload is positioned to show you the start of the dream.

Not that I say it's impossible, of course.

your opinion. I and many others (hopefully) think  its clever and well done. MUCH better than this whole "laser beam that hits/does not hit shepard magically starts the indoctrination process" makes no sense. horrible writing if thats where IT truly starts.


also what about that abruptness of the shuttle crash and shepards complete change of attitude imediatly after the crash? 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 01 mai 2012 - 04:04 .

[Lakeshow1986]

Also the control option has the four handles that the keepers use, granted you only use two of them. To me? That was alarm bells there as the keepers were the very definition of servants to the reapers, and your using the same interface...

[Rosewind]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Sorry but something still bugs me about Omega, if it is unimportant why dose TIM take it over?

it was breifly explained that TIM used it a hub for transport from the omega 4 relay.

though there *might be something more.

Hmm I knew that but why waste resources on taking it they just using it as a research hub? That is what is bothering me is why he put so much effort into it.

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

It has trees (even in normal IT you can't really call them dream trees because they are different) in one location far off to the right. Doll like bodies? Are you referring to the crappy textures at the base of the thing? because during a normal run you don't get anywhere near them :S
Didn't see a blurry atmosphere.
And what's odd about Harbinger?

Starting a dream sequence after a random, unexplained and unimportant car crash isn't clever, it's just a major **** YOU to the player. Narratively it's awful. And it also doesn't work with the idea that the final reload is positioned to show you the start of the dream.

Not that I say it's impossible, of course.

your opinion. I and many others (hopefully) think  its clever and well done. MUCH better than this whole "laser beam that hits/does not hit shepard magically starts the indoctrination process" makes no sense. horrible writing if thats where IT truly starts.

It's the transition that bugs me though. In the shuttle, crash, cut to black, then we're outside the shuttle and everyones ok. If Shep was knocked unconcious this cut doesn't let the player see it, and that's the problem. I mean, if you woke up after the crash I'd think it more likely or at least better written.

Plus, even in the original script you are hit by Harbingers beam and knocked out, so they obviously thought it was a possibility. From what I can tell it hits in front of you and presumably you're thrown back from the explosion? Or he cuts it out in hope of getting you.

Agree to disagree, s'pose.

EDIT - sorry, didn't see, what change of attitude? And what about the abruptness of the crash? Generally speaking crashes are abrupt, and they need a reason to get the player out and running at the beam

Modifié par SS2Dante, 01 mai 2012 - 04:11 .

[spotlessvoid]

SS2Dante wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I've said this before. How invested in the story can someone be if they haven't decided to bother to play major DLC with significant narrative consequences?

Referring to from Ashes? If not disregard
I would say I'm pretty damn invested, but I didn't get From Ashes. Didn't have any money on my account when I got ME3 and due to a weird card reading screwup I have to buy my points physically, and really didn't want to wait. Plus if you haven't got the DLC you don't know what "significant narrative consequences" it contains. I thought it'd just be a new character with some interesting backstory.

Arrival, in regards to Shepard not being exposed to Object Rho and it's possible ramifications for IDT

[SS2Dante]

spotlessvoid wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I've said this before. How invested in the story can someone be if they haven't decided to bother to play major DLC with significant narrative consequences?

Referring to from Ashes? If not disregard
I would say I'm pretty damn invested, but I didn't get From Ashes. Didn't have any money on my account when I got ME3 and due to a weird card reading screwup I have to buy my points physically, and really didn't want to wait. Plus if you haven't got the DLC you don't know what "significant narrative consequences" it contains. I thought it'd just be a new character with some interesting backstory.

Arrival, in regards to Shepard not being exposed to Object Rho and it's possible ramifications for IDT

Ah, k

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

It has trees (even in normal IT you can't really call them dream trees because they are different) in one location far off to the right. Doll like bodies? Are you referring to the crappy textures at the base of the thing? because during a normal run you don't get anywhere near them :S
Didn't see a blurry atmosphere.
And what's odd about Harbinger?

Starting a dream sequence after a random, unexplained and unimportant car crash isn't clever, it's just a major **** YOU to the player. Narratively it's awful. And it also doesn't work with the idea that the final reload is positioned to show you the start of the dream.

Not that I say it's impossible, of course.

your opinion. I and many others (hopefully) think  its clever and well done. MUCH better than this whole "laser beam that hits/does not hit shepard magically starts the indoctrination process" makes no sense. horrible writing if thats where IT truly starts.

It's the transition that bugs me though. In the shuttle, crash, cut to black, then we're outside the shuttle and everyones ok. If Shep was knocked unconcious this cut doesn't let the player see it, and that's the problem. I mean, if you woke up after the crash I'd think it more likely or at least better written.

Plus, even in the original script you are hit by Harbingers beam and knocked out, so they obviously thought it was a possibility. From what I can tell it hits in front of you and presumably you're thrown back from the explosion? Or he cuts it out in hope of getting you.

Agree to disagree, s'pose.

EDIT - sorry, didn't see, what change of attitude? And what about the abruptness of the crash? Generally speaking crashes are abrupt, and they need a reason to get the player out and running at the beam

by abruptness I meant in the scene changes, which you pointed out as well.

and for change of attitide: well liara and garrus are still not even completly of the transport and shepards like "screw them, im not going to check of there ok or not, I got a charge to run!" 

was I the only one that thought shepard would at least make sure nobody is severily injured?

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 01 mai 2012 - 04:18 .

[SubAstris]

BleedingUranium wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Why would the Reapers close the Citadel, which is virtually impossible to get into, but then connect a transport beam to it, and only defend it with a single Destroyer? And Harbinger gets there so late that at least Shepard survives, maybe more. Seems a lot like a trap to me

Wasn't that the whole point of the mission, go to a beam to get the Citadel? Or is that a figment of your imagination due to indoctrination? Is the whole Earth mission fiction then?

Except we know less about the beam than we do about the Crucible, which isn't much.

My point was basically either the Reapers are really dumb or it's a trap.

The beam was the only way presented in game to get to the Citadel and thus the only way to activate the Crucible. If it indeed it was a trap and BW did this deliberately, then you are left with the question of why they didn't give hints to this, for example you could have heard Anderson saying something like the beam was "fishy"; that doesn't give anything solidly away, but nonetheless would explain IT than what we actually have. It just wreaks of bad writing rather than an elaborate plot

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the whole "beam run"  is the part where the player are supposed to "spot it" 

its has 
dream treas (/before getting hit)
doll-like  bodies (before getting hit)
blurry atmpsphere (before getting hit)
anderson has gun
harbinger

if you talk about the stuff that is in only  AFTER the beam hit you is 

harbinger flies away.
even more dream-like atmosphere

It has trees (even in normal IT you can't really call them dream trees because they are different) in one location far off to the right. Doll like bodies? Are you referring to the crappy textures at the base of the thing? because during a normal run you don't get anywhere near them :S
Didn't see a blurry atmosphere.
And what's odd about Harbinger?

Starting a dream sequence after a random, unexplained and unimportant car crash isn't clever, it's just a major **** YOU to the player. Narratively it's awful. And it also doesn't work with the idea that the final reload is positioned to show you the start of the dream.

Not that I say it's impossible, of course.

your opinion. I and many others (hopefully) think  its clever and well done. MUCH better than this whole "laser beam that hits/does not hit shepard magically starts the indoctrination process" makes no sense. horrible writing if thats where IT truly starts.

It's the transition that bugs me though. In the shuttle, crash, cut to black, then we're outside the shuttle and everyones ok. If Shep was knocked unconcious this cut doesn't let the player see it, and that's the problem. I mean, if you woke up after the crash I'd think it more likely or at least better written.

Plus, even in the original script you are hit by Harbingers beam and knocked out, so they obviously thought it was a possibility. From what I can tell it hits in front of you and presumably you're thrown back from the explosion? Or he cuts it out in hope of getting you.

Agree to disagree, s'pose.

EDIT - sorry, didn't see, what change of attitude? And what about the abruptness of the crash? Generally speaking crashes are abrupt, and they need a reason to get the player out and running at the beam

by abruptness I meant in the scene changes, which you pointed out as well.

well liara and garrus are still not even completly of the transport and shepards like "screw them, im not going to check of there ok or not, I got a charge to run!" 

was I the only one that thought shepard would at least make sure nobodies severily injured?

Well, presumably, since Shepard was in the transport (s)he has already seen that everyones fine. It's clearly intact so it's not like Shep was thrown out of it or anything.

[SubAstris]

Lakeshow1986 wrote...

Also the control option has the four handles that the keepers use, granted you only use two of them. To me? That was alarm bells there as the keepers were the very definition of servants to the reapers, and your using the same interface...

Or possibly BW reuse old things? The Catalyst built the Citadel and the options, why wouldn't they be the same?

[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

Lakeshow1986 wrote...

Also the control option has the four handles that the keepers use, granted you only use two of them. To me? That was alarm bells there as the keepers were the very definition of servants to the reapers, and your using the same interface...

Or possibly BW reuse old things? The Catalyst built the Citadel and the options, why wouldn't they be the same?

If that's the case it was odd of Bioware to name these handles the "bad" ending in the model viewer

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

by abruptness I meant in the scene changes, which you pointed out as well.

well liara and garrus are still not even completly of the transport and shepards like "screw them, im not going to check of there ok or not, I got a charge to run!" 

was I the only one that thought shepard would at least make sure nobodies severily injured?

Well, presumably, since Shepard was in the transport (s)he has already seen that everyones fine. It's clearly intact so it's not like Shep was thrown out of it or anything.

maybe, its just that I noticed that shepard is always the last one to enter/exit, and to make sure everones safe. I just found it odd.