57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Tocquevillain]

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

[PrivateFrost]

Oh, this thread is too good. I'm gonna go swim a bit right now, looking forward to see new updates later.

[Path Of Sorrows]

njfluffy19 wrote...

I think a lot of us were mortally wounded when the ending came to pass. It's understanable we would rage out before thinking things through. Though nothing is set in stone yet, I am highly suspicious these theories are correct.

:]

The more I think about it, the more it seems plausible.  But how will we get confirmation?  I know BW will make at least some sort of statement addressing all this, but how long will we wait?  Weeks?  A new series?  Will we get a 'real' ending in a cutscene or some kind of DLC?  Was this their plan from the begining? (And by 'begining', I mean since they scrapped the last ending involving dark energy)

[Kveki]

I am really happy how this has evolved since I followed the thread from day one...Maybe even if that was not their initial plan, now it might be...

[Rifneno]

Pyewacket wrote...

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Cerberus Scientist: You're married? You never mentioned that.
Cerberus Researcher: Katy had anger management issues. When my brother got married, the best man tried to hit on her. She kicked him down the church steps.
Cerberus Scientist: Wh—? Katy's my wife! I must have told you the story.
Cerberus Researcher: No. I know my wife. I remember — that day was the only time I saw her wear stockings.
Cerberus Scientist: Yeah. The kind with seams up the back. That's what I remember, too.
Cerberus Researcher: What the hell is this? How can we remember the same thing?

[meiiska]

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian, or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers?  you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess, you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

[Goddy10]

I mean HOW HARD WOULD IT BE, for one of the Bioware guys to come into this thread and just be straight with us and say "Look guys, we're sorry to disappoint you, but you've got it wrong." If that is the truth, then nothing changes. They just shut us up early so we aren't disappointed.

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why
would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop
you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while
this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of
the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not
discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if
this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at
finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After
all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a
distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the
game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is
something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the
indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The
few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian,
or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is
similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to
many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive
a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be
indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers? 
you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb
the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is
described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i
was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of
my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess,
you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

Keep an eye on your moral compasses, folks; we have a butthurt Christian in our midst.

Modifié par Goddy10, 12 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[Synthecx]

 I don't know why but the thought of this being just... I don't knoooow...
It feels like a MASSIVE test... I feel like a rat trapped in a cage, unable to get away...
The theory is REALLY awesome! I'm extremly impressed!!! You have found so much evidences...
I have to admit I'm a bit afraid of it trough... A test on all gamers?
They couldn't have chosen any better. Mass Effect fan base is so big...

I was already a bit concerned when I saw the death of the child in the beginning, when I played the demo...
It was definetively a strategical psycological move.
You wouldn't let a child die in the first 5-10min of a game! It's a bit like the death of Shep in ME2...
They want you to hate the Reapers and show that you can't save everyone and especially not the WHOLE galaxy!
Right from the beginning you are shown that in the end there isn't a real win, even if you defete the Reapers...
There would be so much loses...

I want the epic happy ending for sure!!! Give me ME4 or a DLC but don't let the galaxy die that unepic kind of way...
I play games for fun, for a little break from everyday life...
Games just can't end bad. And this game was made for being epic!!! (Give back my whole crew, EVERYONE!!!)

Maybe it's just for the money... Now they can sell a DLC... I'm pretty sure they will ^^
And they know how much everyone loves their Shep... I could cry about the end of the series, too!
Look at dA, EVERYONE who is a fan loves it!!!
So making this strange ending could also just be the purpose of making money out of the fans...

Think about that. Stopping ME will be a lose of a LOOOOOT of money...

[vertibird1]

Don't you think its convenient that at the ending decision.To destroy the reapers you simply shoot a power conduit then it makes red fairy dust blow out and if you simply jump into the beam it makes the entire galaxy organic-synthetic? it makes me think it might be a hallucination

[BlackDragonBane]

Pyewacket wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Sovereign says this in ME1 when you talk to him on Virmire (paraphrasing cause I don't know the exact words)

"You touch my mind, but fumble around in ignorance."

Though there may be nothing to this and just Sovereigns way of speaking but it seems a little odd that he would directly say that Shepard is touching its mind instead of just simply talking to it throught the interface (or whatever that is) that pops up on the platform above Saren's beacon.

[SCass2009]

Jebus I think people are are going a bit crazy here, I'm waiting for the riots in the streets over the ending to start lol

In fairness, I actually thought the endings weren't as bad (take out the bit with the normandy flying away for some reason just ), the way I seen it was control was the paragon, destroy was renegade and the systhsis seemed to be closest to a "perfect" ending. Plus throughout all the games they all went on about making hard decisions blah blah, so obviously you were gonna have the pros- and cons of each ending there as well!

I think Bioware has themselves to blame for all this anyways- they hyped it all up, leading everyone to believe the ending would be affected by everything you done, when really only the build up the ending to was affected, not the actual ending itself...

Prob would have been better to have one ending for everyone, and do what Dragon Age done and show different clips for all the different outcomes for each race and so on

[Pyewacket]

Tocquevillain wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

Oh yeah,  there are oily shadows all over the dreams.  In fact "people" in the dreams are entirley formed out of shadows.  Also, since when can indoctrinated people exert control over other people with the power of their brains?  This was actually one of the most nonsensical parts for me.  Indoctrination makes you telekinetic now?

[blooregard]

Tocquevillain wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

in the second or third dream there are "oily" humanoid shadows scattered around the setting there also seem to be whispers you can hear them but you can't really make out what they're saying but it sounds like they just keep saying shepard that was the biggest thing I noticed about TIM was he was generating these dark colored shadow streaks

[balance5050]

Tocquevillain wrote...

EDIT

Quite.

In my mind though they wanted to appeal to jesus shepard, sacrifice himself to save everyone, and the ultimate choice, synthesis, would be him sacrificing himself for the sin of creating sythetic life to begin with. My point is that its all confusing misinformation from catalyst/reaper designed to distract you from reality.

[Unfallen_Satan]

I think the player indoctrination theory of lookingglassmind was quite insightful, though I disagree with almost the entirety of that essay. Or maybe I just don't understand it because it's so complicated. Instead, the notion of player indoctrination is now almost as clear to me as day. For the vast majority of players who care to post on these forums, their reaction is one of two kinds. They either believe the ending awaits expansion/alteration because it is a hallucination/indoctrination/plot hole or they like it the way it is. In the former case, they eagerly anticipate a DLC or more to complete their ME experience. In the later case, they react favorably toward BioWare. Whether they will buy an alternate ending DLC remains to be seen, but a favorable reaction is a good start. Either way, the result is in BioWare's favor.

This is my theory of indoctrination. It's far beyond and much more subtle just mind control or false images or lies. It's inception. You can believe whatever you want to believe, and in fact they are your beliefs. There is no deception. However, whatever you choose to believe or how you choose to act, you ultimately serve BioWare... I mean the Reaper's goals.

The only ones who have resisted BioWare's indoctrination are likely those who think BioWare has screwed up with ME 3's ending and don't care to associate with it any further. Whether I am indoctrinated or not, I have found a new appreciation for ME 3's ending, not because i think it's well done, but because of its effects on the player population. Despite all the controversy and uproar and passion, very few voices actually advocate just taking ME 3's ending as botched writing and shove the whole thing out of the nearest airlock.

[Traestus]

http://twitter.com/#...930229329829888

This tweet confuses me even more.

If everyone on the Citadel was likely killed why are there only humans in marine outfits when Shepard wakes up?

[Devil Mingy]

Even if it's not true, is can at least join one of these wonderful lists

[Madkipz]

Pyewacket wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Mass effect 2. Cerberus derelict reaper ship. Video log where a guy talks about his wife, but another guy says that it is his wife.

Mass effect 1. Everything Saren / Benezia ever does or says.

Arrival DLC. The doctor that betrays you hails them as angels of salvation or whatever.

What did you think reapers did when they made indoctrinated agents? Bend them against their own wills? 

[Pyewacket]

Rifneno wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Cerberus Scientist: You're married? You never mentioned that.
Cerberus Researcher: Katy had anger management issues. When my brother got married, the best man tried to hit on her. She kicked him down the church steps.
Cerberus Scientist: Wh—? Katy's my wife! I must have told you the story.
Cerberus Researcher: No. I know my wife. I remember — that day was the only time I saw her wear stockings.
Cerberus Scientist: Yeah. The kind with seams up the back. That's what I remember, too.
Cerberus Researcher: What the hell is this? How can we remember the same thing?

Huh.  I always thought that was less crafting of images and sort of their minds being joined together, y'know, like the victims of Feros?  I could totally be wrong here.  It has been a while.

[Militarized]

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian, or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers?  you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess, you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

There has been research done correlating IQ to religiosity, science wins. 

NEXT. 

Also, this thread is awesome totally on board with it now. 

Modifié par Militarized, 12 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[krystalevenstar]

Here's your daily reminder about two major things I don't think have been updated in the OP yet:
- Apparently in the Marine Corps basic training, the last major test is called 'The Crucible', which culminates in a steep mountain climb referred to as 'The Reaper'.
- The definition of 'Crucible' is: A place or occasion of severe test or trial: "the crucible of combat".

[Fledgey]

Tup3xi wrote...

holyshock18 wrote...

Westley Hayes ‏ @WestleyHayes
@masseffect Do you think Shepard can become indoctrinated by the Reapers?

57m Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@westleyhayes Anything is possible


That was from twitter. Anything is possible. So keep it going.

That sounded something like what CleverBot would say...

http://i.imgur.com/BI5UC.png
Cough.

[balance5050]

Goddy10 wrote...

I mean HOW HARD WOULD IT BE, for one of the Bioware guys to come into this thread and just be straight with us and say "Look guys, we're sorry to disappoint you, but you've got it wrong." If that is the truth, then nothing changes. They just shut us up early so we aren't disappointed.

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why
would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop
you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while
this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of
the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not
discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if
this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at
finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After
all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a
distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the
game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is
something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the
indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The
few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian,
or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is
similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to
many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive
a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be
indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers? 
you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb
the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is
described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i
was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of
my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess,
you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

Keep an eye on your moral compasses, folks; we have a butthurt Christian in our midst.

I just meant that I can see how this crappy ending would appeal to christains, but not to the science minded critical thinker.

[Pyewacket]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Sovereign says this in ME1 when you talk to him on Virmire (paraphrasing cause I don't know the exact words)

"You touch my mind, but fumble around in ignorance."

Though there may be nothing to this and just Sovereigns way of speaking but it seems a little odd that he would directly say that Shepard is touching its mind instead of just simply talking to it throught the interface (or whatever that is) that pops up on the platform above Saren's beacon.

Oh hey!  I forgot about that.  I suppose it is possible than.  Although if that is true, I really wished they had established that Reapers had the ability to craft their image according to things they see in your mind.  Then again, maybe the point is that you DON'T know....  gah, so confused.

[BlackDragonBane]

Pyewacket wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Cerberus Scientist: You're married? You never mentioned that.
Cerberus Researcher: Katy had anger management issues. When my brother got married, the best man tried to hit on her. She kicked him down the church steps.
Cerberus Scientist: Wh—? Katy's my wife! I must have told you the story.
Cerberus Researcher: No. I know my wife. I remember — that day was the only time I saw her wear stockings.
Cerberus Scientist: Yeah. The kind with seams up the back. That's what I remember, too.
Cerberus Researcher: What the hell is this? How can we remember the same thing?

Huh.  I always thought that was less crafting of images and sort of their minds being joined together, y'know, like the victims of Feros?  I could totally be wrong here.  It has been a while.

I think this is an example of singular minds being converted and integrated into a hive mind. After all, the Reaper thralls do not think for themselves, they become mindless Husks that are under the Reapers control. Indoctrination of groups of people like causes memory bleeding in all the individuals as it simultaneously breaks down their mind until there's nothing left to resist the Reaper's control.