57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Worufu]

www.youtube.com/watch
This is what I;m listening to when I'm reading this tipic and watching the endings and parts of the game to find any clues.
Shepard! Stop dreaming, dammit.

Modifié par Worufu, 12 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[hismastersvoice]

noobcannon wrote...

hismastersvoice wrote...

Oh god, who's Keyser Söze then?

joker

And he's legging it at the end. Makes perfect sense.

[kent80082006]

Further evidence: (sorry if repeated)

1. There's no way Normandy could have utilized the mass relay near Pluto (the only mass relay in sol system) when the ship should be near Earth when the crucible fired.

2. No way squadmate who got hit by laser could have been teleported to the Normandy in final scene

3. Shepard wakes up not in what appears to be the ruins of the Citadel, but in a pile of concrete and rebar

4. Ghost child made it clear destroying all synthetics will also destroy Shepherd who is partly synthetic, thus attempting to stop shepherd from destroying the reapers through intimidation

[Smirkeh]

AxisEvolve wrote...

There would be a whole new form of anger if it was a dream though. But the question is.. would there be less anger? Maybe this is the way to go.

Personally I think it would be less anger. It would just be nice to know it was all just a dream and fake therefore leading to the ultimate ending we had all in a sense hoped for..... but of course we would all be angered by the fact it wasn't given it to us in the beginning....

[BlackDragonBane]

Pyewacket wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Sovereign says this in ME1 when you talk to him on Virmire (paraphrasing cause I don't know the exact words)

"You touch my mind, but fumble around in ignorance."

Though there may be nothing to this and just Sovereigns way of speaking but it seems a little odd that he would directly say that Shepard is touching its mind instead of just simply talking to it throught the interface (or whatever that is) that pops up on the platform above Saren's beacon.

Oh hey!  I forgot about that.  I suppose it is possible than.  Although if that is true, I really wished they had established that Reapers had the ability to craft their image according to things they see in your mind.  Then again, maybe the point is that you DON'T know....  gah, so confused.

This is stretching it a bit but also Sovereign immediately identified Shepard as not being Saren when the conversation is activated, yet I don't think Reapers see in the same way we think the Geth percieve visual data or how organics see.

[Pyewacket]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Cerberus Scientist: You're married? You never mentioned that.
Cerberus Researcher: Katy had anger management issues. When my brother got married, the best man tried to hit on her. She kicked him down the church steps.
Cerberus Scientist: Wh—? Katy's my wife! I must have told you the story.
Cerberus Researcher: No. I know my wife. I remember — that day was the only time I saw her wear stockings.
Cerberus Scientist: Yeah. The kind with seams up the back. That's what I remember, too.
Cerberus Researcher: What the hell is this? How can we remember the same thing?

Huh.  I always thought that was less crafting of images and sort of their minds being joined together, y'know, like the victims of Feros?  I could totally be wrong here.  It has been a while.

I think this is an example of singular minds being converted and integrated into a hive mind. After all, the Reaper thralls do not think for themselves, they become mindless Husks that are under the Reapers control. Indoctrination of groups of people like causes memory bleeding in all the individuals as it simultaneously breaks down their mind until there's nothing left to resist the Reaper's control.

Yes!  What you said.

[DXLelouch15]

balance5050 wrote...

Goddy10 wrote...

I mean HOW HARD WOULD IT BE, for one of the Bioware guys to come into this thread and just be straight with us and say "Look guys, we're sorry to disappoint you, but you've got it wrong." If that is the truth, then nothing changes. They just shut us up early so we aren't disappointed.

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why
would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop
you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while
this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of
the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not
discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if
this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at
finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After
all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a
distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the
game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is
something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the
indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The
few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian,
or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is
similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to
many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive
a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be
indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers? 
you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb
the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is
described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i
was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of
my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess,
you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

Keep an eye on your moral compasses, folks; we have a butthurt Christian in our midst.

I just meant that I can see how this crappy ending would appeal to christains, but not to the science minded critical thinker.

im a christian and i hated the endings
didnt appeal to me one bit cause it was INDOCTRINATION!!!

[jackncoke28]

The dream sequences are part of the process towards indoctrination, the oily shadows, and reaper noises point to this. The boy in the nightmares represents shepard's feeling's of guilt and powerlessness, his inability to save everyone, the fact that the child sez 'you cant save me' points to this. The reaper tech senses this weakness and is exploiting it in order to complete shepards indoctrination, why else would the 'catalyst' use the childs image? Another thing that i find interesting is that all you're paragon convo choices about the war against the reapers emphasize death, loss, and how big the odds against winning are, while all the renegade convo choices on that issue emphasize defeating the reapers, i see that as foreshadowing of the last 'paragon' and 'renegade' options.

[themidz]

PrivateFrost wrote...

http://i.qkme.me/36jzum.jpg

best
joke
ever

thanks 

[Mr. Mistake]

hismastersvoice wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

hismastersvoice wrote...

Oh god, who's Keyser Söze then?

joker

And he's legging it at the end. Makes perfect sense.

It was right there all along...

[lavosslayer]

Madkipz wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

Yeah, but that's never established.  I've never read or seen anything in the game that said the reapers were able to scan images in your mind and craft their own images accordingly.  At least the Protheans abilities are established in game.

Mass effect 2. Cerberus derelict reaper ship. Video log where a guy talks about his wife, but another guy says that it is his wife.

Mass effect 1. Everything Saren / Benezia ever does or says.

Arrival DLC. The doctor that betrays you hails them as angels of salvation or whatever.

What did you think reapers did when they made indoctrinated agents? Bend them against their own wills? 

All you need to do is read about Paul Grayson from the Mass Effect books. He was indoctrinated and the Reapers were able to take control of his body and scan his mind and then use those things in his mind against him.

Here is an excerpt from the end of Chapter 11 in the book Mass Effect: Retribution -

"The Reapers were gathering knowledge about him and his environment, recording everything they came into contact with. He didn’t know how many of the aliens were in his head; sometimes it felt like a single entity, other times it felt like billions of individuals. In either case, however, it wasn’t unreasonable to assume they shared whatever information they collected with others of their kind. Following this train of thought, if the Reapers had ever possessed a turian in the past for a long period of time, they could have learned virtually everything there was to know about that species. And now they were using Grayson to learn all they could about humanity."

Karpyshyn, Drew (2010-07-21). Mass Effect: Retribution (p. 158). Random House, Inc.

Modifié par lavosslayer, 12 mars 2012 - 07:27 .

[DtheArtist327]

http://forum.gamebre...pic.php?id=4144

I posted in this website/thread about my theory that is was an indoctrination atttempt but here is my post.

After watching Mike B's vlog about his views on the ending of Mass Effect 3 and this YouTube vid: I am starting to think it makes more since that is was an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger. Some of my views on this subject are mentioned in both vids but just wanted to write it out.

Been a couple days since playing ME3 (actually starting over to do every missions and work on multiplayer) and been thinking about the ending. My first reaction to the ending was almost in shock I didn't know what to think. If you watched Lore finished his initial play through of ME3 that was about the same. (Minus the cool butterfly knife flipping and talking with Mike

On my first play through in the end I choose "control" with the information I had at the time I felt that controlling would be best for me to do to save as many species as I could. After reading and watching blogs about the ending I started to piece together that I may have been indoctrinated. Much like a dream you don't typically have control at least to the point of asking too many questions. This seem to be the case when talking with the child and seeing how you couldn't press into the subject matter with him. He pretty much gave you your choices and told you to decide. The thing I did notice when I watched the "control" ending was that the child does seem give a slight smirk on his face before fading away.

Another interesting bit as much armor that was ripped off after being knocked out by Harbinger one would think you would be much more hurt than that. If a blast was so strong that it ripped your armor right off chances are if your not killed in the blast you are critically wounded. That for sure would support the destroy choice and that if you have enough assets you see Sheppard take a breath in the end. On the topic of the destroy choice the child once you start firing on it will immediately disappear. This would also support that the child knows that his indoc attempt didn't work and why also at the end you get to see Sheppard breathing in rubble.

The middle choice, some kind of merge, I take it is another form of indoc but merges the reapers with organics allowing them to live...that might come back and haunt them later. All of these choices though doesn't really explain what happens after with the whole Citadel firing the color beam at the mass relay and what not. The jungle thing at the end with the Normandy doesn't make any sense and more so with the grandpa and daughter chatting after credits.

Here is what I think might happen in the future. Bioware will announce that yes after getting knocked out Harbinger will make a last ditch attempt to indoc Sheppard. Everything from that point on up to the after you make your decision was all in your head. Hopefully they will explain this was done on purpose to give the player a chance to be in a situation of indoctrination without realizing it. After all throughout the trilogy it is mention that indoctrination is slow and although if true this is a fast indoctrination which may be why Sheppard has a chance to break from it. Bioware will unlock the final endings (hopefully free DLC that has true multiple endings) which would take place after you make your decision which will inform you that you either been indoctrinated or broke free from it. From that point on the real ending begins based on that test. I would think if you picked control or the merge you would get indoctrinated and roll a new cut scene that will make sense of the rest of the cut scenes when the citadel uses the catalyst.

The "correct" answer to that test you wake up in rubble outside the teleporter thing with Harbinger (he's clearly pissed that he failed to indoc you) and your hurt too much to fight back. Hopefully Harbinger has a chat with you before he decides to kill you once and for all. But Normandy comes to save the day and providing you have the number of assets the fleet helps out in taking out Harbinger. From that point on hopefully Bioware does a clever wrap up of how you use the catalyst, actually have your previous decisions matter, and explain why the Normandy ends up in a jungle (hopefully your onboard with an extended version of that bit). Then finally wrap up with the grandpa story telling flick after credits.

I bit of a long shot I know but if this was intended by Bioware this maybe the boldest rpg video game made and if they play their cards right (no price tag on ending dlc) could be the greatest finale of a trilogy for a video game.

I mean it can't get any worse...right?


Side note: Another bit I forgot to mention when the child is giving you the choices he is trying to make it seem that "Control" is paragon, "middle" is neutral, and "destroy" is renegade. However you do a flash memory and see TIM at control and Anderson at renegade. When I gave it some thought, and I think this was mentioned before by Mike B or someone else, that should have been flipped around. These memory flashes may in fact be your subconscious fighting the indoctrination and trying to warn you but can't go full out since Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you. Might also explain why Sheppard feels TIM was right all along and that you (the player) can't control that dialogue as you are slipping into indoctrination.

[thenxtmarvlhero]

Devil Mingy wrote...

Even if it's not true, is can at least join one of these wonderful lists

Yeah, I'm actually kinda happy about that. I think in my mind, no matter what happens, this will always be the true ending in my mind. Yes it means that the story is never complete, but getting the whole indoctrination twist and no complete ending is better in my mind than what we actually got. I sincerely hope they go for it though.

[balance5050]

DXLelouch15 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Goddy10 wrote...

I mean HOW HARD WOULD IT BE, for one of the Bioware guys to come into this thread and just be straight with us and say "Look guys, we're sorry to disappoint you, but you've got it wrong." If that is the truth, then nothing changes. They just shut us up early so we aren't disappointed.

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why
would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop
you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while
this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of
the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not
discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if
this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at
finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After
all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a
distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the
game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is
something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the
indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The
few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian,
or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is
similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to
many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive
a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be
indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers? 
you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb
the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is
described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i
was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of
my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess,
you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

Keep an eye on your moral compasses, folks; we have a butthurt Christian in our midst.

I just meant that I can see how this crappy ending would appeal to christains, but not to the science minded critical thinker.

im a christian and i hated the endings
didnt appeal to me one bit cause it was INDOCTRINATION!!!

Right on brother, i didnt mean to offend. just though I would bring up these points.

"You ain't gotta go to church to get to know your god"

[Milvushina]

Unfallen_Satan wrote...

I think the player indoctrination theory of lookingglassmind was quite insightful, though I disagree with almost the entirety of that essay. Or maybe I just don't understand it because it's so complicated. Instead, the notion of player indoctrination is now almost as clear to me as day. For the vast majority of players who care to post on these forums, their reaction is one of two kinds. They either believe the ending awaits expansion/alteration because it is a hallucination/indoctrination/plot hole or they like it the way it is. In the former case, they eagerly anticipate a DLC or more to complete their ME experience. In the later case, they react favorably toward BioWare. Whether they will buy an alternate ending DLC remains to be seen, but a favorable reaction is a good start. Either way, the result is in BioWare's favor.

This is my theory of indoctrination. It's far beyond and much more subtle just mind control or false images or lies. It's inception. You can believe whatever you want to believe, and in fact they are your beliefs. There is no deception. However, whatever you choose to believe or how you choose to act, you ultimately serve BioWare... I mean the Reaper's goals.

The only ones who have resisted BioWare's indoctrination are likely those who think BioWare has screwed up with ME 3's ending and don't care to associate with it any further. Whether I am indoctrinated or not, I have found a new appreciation for ME 3's ending, not because i think it's well done, but because of its effects on the player population. Despite all the controversy and uproar and passion, very few voices actually advocate just taking ME 3's ending as botched writing and shove the whole thing out of the nearest airlock.

Well said...  While I didn't exactly enjoy the ending, I like that ME3 left me pondering instead of just tossing it aside the second I was done.  Whether or not the last scene really was an attempt to trick an indoctrinated Shepard, it did make me question everything I thought had happened.  And when I pushed on with the goal of destroying the Reapers I really didn't feel convinced that I was doing the right thing.

Honestly, I probably do approve of the ending overall, just because I can't think of a more fitting final note for ME than that very sad, confused, strange confrontation.  The more it sinks in, the more it just feels right for the story, somehow.

[Vyrii]

Tocquevillain wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

Actually... that's how I imagined it in game.  Not to mention that since TIM could only control the reaper brodcast single within an area and he was going to use the catalyst to control all reapers, that would mean once he was dead his smaller (but stronger) signal died, and then Shepard was probably released to Reaper Indoctrination control... ?  But that implies that TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated...

The timeline is weird.  When did TIM become officially indoctrinated?  Was it when he had the surgery done to himself to have all the control stuff implanted?  After that?  It was stated by the child that he was under reaper control, but not explained as to when he was fully indoctrinated.

Bioware.... why you no let me talk to child thing more?

[xDarkspace]

balance5050 wrote...

Goddy10 wrote...

I mean HOW HARD WOULD IT BE, for one of the Bioware guys to come into this thread and just be straight with us and say "Look guys, we're sorry to disappoint you, but you've got it wrong." If that is the truth, then nothing changes. They just shut us up early so we aren't disappointed.

meiiska wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why
would the Illusive man force you to shoot Anderson but not able to stop
you from shooting him? Also, oily shadows during this scene.

while
this does hold true to what the rachni queen said just remember most of
the rachni's inter-species relations are very cryptic. I'm not
discrediting this whole indoctronation theory since it proves that if
this wasn't bioware's plan all along then the fans are better at
finishing a story then the people who made the game

That is not necessarely a bad thing.

After
all people showed that they need to think before they express opinion, a
distinct lack of during the first few days of people finishing the
game.

Almost everyone I talk knows there is
something wrong with the end, whether or not they believe the
indoctrination theory, they want something different.

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The
few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian,
or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is
similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

I'm just finding way to
many parallels to real life about the way people are, who would beleive
a god figure who is clearly lying, and which of us would actually be
indoctrinated at that moment.

linear thinkers? 
you mean like the dumb atheists in another thread talking about how dumb
the ending was and not even knowing about the indoctrination that is
described in pretty much EVERY REAPER CODEX IN THE GAME..  oh im sorry, i
was being obtuse in sterotyping a group of people because of a few of
my friends, oh that was you, my mistake, what are you 15?  let me guess,
you were whining on wall street also complaining about "the Man"..

Keep an eye on your moral compasses, folks; we have a butthurt Christian in our midst.

I just meant that I can see how this crappy ending would appeal to christains, but not to the science minded critical thinker.

Well atleast ashley would be happy about the endings... lol

[krystalevenstar]

Another thing that's been discussed over the last few days but I don't know if it's been reiterated for the new people to the thread, during the end starchild choice scene, 'Control' is portrayed by the child as the blue, correct choice, even though we clearly see TIM in the clip, the renegade. 'Destroy' is portrayed as red, renegade/the wrong choice, even though we see Anderson, paragon, in the clip. The child is actively trying to dissuade you from following through on your convictions, even going so far as to lie to you, saying that all synthetic life will be destroyed, when in reality it's just the reapers. The cut scene following destroy shows nothing of the geth being deactivated.

[xDarkspace]

www.youtube.com/watch

[BlackDragonBane]

Vyrii wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

Actually... that's how I imagined it in game.  Not to mention that since TIM could only control the reaper brodcast single within an area and he was going to use the catalyst to control all reapers, that would mean once he was dead his smaller (but stronger) signal died, and then Shepard was probably released to Reaper Indoctrination control... ?  But that implies that TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated...

The timeline is weird.  When did TIM become officially indoctrinated?  Was it when he had the surgery done to himself to have all the control stuff implanted?  After that?  It was stated by the child that he was under reaper control, but not explained as to when he was fully indoctrinated.

Bioware.... why you no let me talk to child thing more?

If you recall Saren, he had recieved implants from Sovereign that improved his abilities, but they also allowed for Sovereign to exert more control over Saren without completely destroying his mind with the indoctrination signal.

Though we don't know where Illusive Man's Reaper implants came from, it's quite possible that Harbinger or another Reaper started subtly indoctrinating the Illusive Man.

From what I gather about the information you learn on Virmire, the Reapers can exert some control on the strength of the indoctrination process, but not comepletely stop emitting the signal. Both Saren and Benezia were slowly convereted because they were more powerful with their minds intact than as Husks, then you have the Husks that are turned within a matter of days from the effects of of the indoctrination signal or being impaled on a Dragon's Fang. It's quite possible that the Illusive Man's indoctrination was extremely subtle, since he was never in direct contact with a Reaper until after the recovering of the human reaper from the collector's base, which I imagine was emitting a indoctrination signal even though it was vastly incomplete.

[balance5050]

"Well atleast ashley would be happy about the endings... lol"

LOL! well said xDarkspace

[balance5050]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Vyrii wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

so many plotholes in the last 10 mins of the game.

like anderson beating shep to the beam (while leaving shep halfdead on the ground as he passes him/her)
joker fleeing from battle
dead squadmates on a "green planet"
shep not question the reaper ai why he looks like the boy he/she had nightmares from
red ending leaves you alive even if we "saw" the citadel explode

If the Protheans can touch someone and learn their language enough to understand humour and idioms, the thing that controlls the Reapers could probably just scan Shepard's head.

vigil said they under estimated the effects of indoctronation and that the could pretty much only tell somebody was indoctronated when they reach that critical level where they're implanted with reaper tech or they're noticably trying to aid the reapers

Do you get the oily shadow effect in the dream sequences? I can't remember. 

Also, have you considered that since TIM is indoctrinated, the oily shadows at the Citadel scene are just a sign of him exerting control on Anderson and Shepard in that moment? Once he is dead, don't they go away?

Actually... that's how I imagined it in game.  Not to mention that since TIM could only control the reaper brodcast single within an area and he was going to use the catalyst to control all reapers, that would mean once he was dead his smaller (but stronger) signal died, and then Shepard was probably released to Reaper Indoctrination control... ?  But that implies that TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated...

The timeline is weird.  When did TIM become officially indoctrinated?  Was it when he had the surgery done to himself to have all the control stuff implanted?  After that?  It was stated by the child that he was under reaper control, but not explained as to when he was fully indoctrinated.

Bioware.... why you no let me talk to child thing more?

If you recall Saren, he had recieved implants from Sovereign that improved his abilities, but they also allowed for Sovereign to exert more control over Saren without completely destroying his mind with the indoctrination signal.

Though we don't know where Illusive Man's Reaper implants came from, it's quite possible that Harbinger or another Reaper started subtly indoctrinating the Illusive Man.

From what I gather about the information you learn on Virmire, the Reapers can exert some control on the strength of the indoctrination process, but not comepletely stop emitting the signal. Both Saren and Benezia were slowly convereted because they were more powerful with their minds intact than as Husks, then you have the Husks that are turned within a matter of days from the effects of of the indoctrination signal or being impaled on a Dragon's Fang. It's quite possible that the Illusive Man's indoctrination was extremely subtle, since he was never in direct contact with a Reaper until after the recovering of the human reaper from the collector's base, which I imagine was emitting a indoctrination signal even though it was vastly incomplete.

Which is something that they would want to do with Shep, he succeeded in pulling the troops together, he stopped sovereign, he killed, what, atleast two reapers on the way. Indoctrination is the last chance they have at stopping the unstoppable force of nature known as Shepard.

[Vyrii]

DtheArtist327 wrote...

http://forum.gamebre...pic.php?id=4144

I posted in this website/thread about my theory that is was an indoctrination atttempt but here is my post.


Side note: Another bit I forgot to mention when the child is giving you the choices he is trying to make it seem that "Control" is paragon, "middle" is neutral, and "destroy" is renegade. However you do a flash memory and see TIM at control and Anderson at renegade. When I gave it some thought, and I think this was mentioned before by Mike B or someone else, that should have been flipped around. These memory flashes may in fact be your subconscious fighting the indoctrination and trying to warn you but can't go full out since Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you. Might also explain why Sheppard feels TIM was right all along and that you (the player) can't control that dialogue as you are slipping into indoctrination.

I fully supoprt this, ESPECIALLY the Paragon and Renagade flip at the end for choices.  I asctually had to stand there and think for a while, wondering "why is the renegade option the one that Anderson has?"

I ended up choosing the destroy option, but didn't have enough war assets to get the final breath scene.  I just REALLY REALLY hope that I didn't really kill EDI or the Geth.  Losing Legion was hard enough.

[Debi-Tage]

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

[BlackDragonBane]

balance5050 wrote...


Which is something that they would want to do with Shep, he succeeded in pulling the troops together, he stopped sovereign, he killed, what, atleast two reapers on the way. Indoctrination is the last chance they have at stopping the unstoppable force of nature known as Shepard.

4 Reapers on Shepard's belt

Sovereign - Blown up
Human Reaper - Dropped into the Collector base and/or Blown up along with it
Destroyer on Tuchunka - Eaten by the summoned Mother of Thresher Maws
Destroyer on Rannoch - Took enough shots to the face to finally go down

Modifié par BlackDragonBane, 12 mars 2012 - 07:35 .