57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sammuthegreat]

Oh, I didn't realise the standard way to represent the light spectrum was by increasing wavelength. For some reason I assumed it was done from lowest to highest frequency - hence why it's called RGB instead of BGR.

[Humakt83]

byne wrote...

So, I just finished Rannoch on this current playthrough.

I love how the laser from the Destroyer on Rannoch AND the Destroyer on Earth are powerful enough to instantly kill you, but Harbinger's laser is only powerful enough to knock you down.

Laser didn't hit Shepard and it closes slowly on Shepard. Harbinger likely being cautious that he does not disintegrate his prize.

[Sammuthegreat]

SS2Dante wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote..
Fair enough... I missed the tree-reflection argument, I don't understand how it can be interpreted as evidence in favour of IT. Could someone please explain it to me?

As for the colours, I understand that RGB are standard colour components, but that's just it - RGB. Not BGR. It seems especially coincidental given that the end is presented in the exact same way, with those exact same base colours in the exact same order.

I don't think it makes or breaks IT, but I think it's evidence nonetheless.

The tree reflection thing is that the whole crucible has trees around the edges, only visible in the reflections of things. I wonder where else in the game you find youself surrounded by trees..

http://wenchy.net/stupidity/trees.png 

Right, but given that the trees aren't actually there in-game (I am right in thinking that, right? That they're in the cube maps but not in the actual scene?), couldn't you just as easily say that the trees were removed but the devs didn't notice they'd left the reflections there? It's not like they're obvious, they could easily have been missed.

[Hawk227]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Speaking of Bioware and Subliminal and speculation and stretching late last night I played through the good red ending to get some more screenshots to review. Earlier that night I talked about Big Ben a little bit, so took a shot of the time displayed before the wave hit. It's either 9:56 or 9:57, googled it and came back with some bible quotes:

Luke 9:56 "for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." And they went on to another village."
Luke 9:57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

That's kind of interesting. Particularly the second one. Though, I don't think its relevant to IT. It explains Shepard either way.

I see Byne Sammuthegreat (sorry!) already pointed out the significance of RGB vs. BGR. But I'll say, I'm not really sure how this fits as evidence for IT.

I fear we've descended into straw grasping, and that if we give these obscure things (like RGB, and ghost trees) to much credence we'll be undermining our own case. They're interesting and worth searching out and acknowledging, but I think we should be real careful about how we incorporate them into the theory.

Modifié par Hawk227, 01 mai 2012 - 10:02 .

[Sammuthegreat]

Hawk227 wrote...
I see Byne already pointed out the significance of RGB vs. BGR

Not the first time I've been confused with our great and illustrious OP. Maybe I should change my display pic.

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 01 mai 2012 - 10:04 .

[balance5050]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...
Surprised to see so many people rejecting this as grasping at Emergency Induction Ports. The colours are even arranged in the same order as in the end choice scene - Blue on the left, Green in the middle and Red on the right.

As other people have said, RBG is how most screens make colours, so seeing it around in places just isn't weird or out of place enough for me. 

I'll stick with the reflections as being my knock down argument

Fair enough... I missed the tree-reflection argument, I don't understand how it can be interpreted as evidence in favour of IT. Could someone please explain it to me?

As for the colours, I understand that RGB are standard colour components, but that's just it - RGB. Not BGR. It seems especially coincidental given that the end is presented in the exact same way, with those exact same base colours in the exact same order.

I don't think it makes or breaks IT, but I think it's evidence nonetheless.

Tree's make it seem like it is actually a trippy hallucination or dream. Your final dream has dead trees in it like the other dreams, but it ends with you embracing the kid and then being engulfed in flames. But then this CRAZY dream happens and you see that kid, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

Either way, trees don't belong there, something's up.

[SS2Dante]

Hawk227 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Speaking of Bioware and Subliminal and speculation and stretching late last night I played through the good red ending to get some more screenshots to review. Earlier that night I talked about Big Ben a little bit, so took a shot of the time displayed before the wave hit. It's either 9:56 or 9:57, googled it and came back with some bible quotes:

Luke 9:56 "for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." And they went on to another village."
Luke 9:57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

That's kind of interesting. Particularly the second one. Though, I don't think its relevant to IT. It explains Shepard either way.

I see Byne Sammuthegreat (sorry!) already pointed out the significance of RGB vs. BGR. But I'll say, I'm not really sure how this fits as evidence for IT.

I fear we've descended into straw grasping, and that if we give these obscure things (like RGB, and ghost trees) to much credence we'll be undermining our own case. They're interesting and worth searching out and acknowledging, but I think we should be real careful about how we incorporate them into the theory.

I'm confused as to why you think the ghost trees are grasping at straws? I mean, they're one solid bit of connecting evidence between the crucible scene and the dreams that absolutely cannot be explained away by "bad writing" or "bioware were lazy".

[Hawk227]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Surprised to see so many people rejecting this as grasping at Emergency Induction Ports. The colours are even arranged in the same order as in the end choice scene - Blue on the left, Green in the middle and Red on the right.

That is how the color spectrum works:
http://upload.wikime...le_spectrum.svg

I'm not very good at optics or the EMF spectrum, but I posit this as a counter point:

Computer color spectrum.

[llbountyhunter]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Oh, I didn't realise the standard way to represent the light spectrum was by increasing wavelength. For some reason I assumed it was done from lowest to highest frequency - hence why it's called RGB instead of BGR.

arent they kinda the same thing? 

[byne]

Shepard: I think we'd rather keep our own forms.
Catalyst: No, you cant. Now please choose between these three options, two of which will allow you to keep your own forms, and one of which will allow you to have a slightly modified version of your own form.

Oh Godchild, you so crazy.

Anyway, the reason I went to godchild's room was because I wanted to check on something I recall being mentioned a while ago. (Like 1500+ pages ago)

Whats up with the two panels on the floor behind where you first start in that room?

Next to the elevator, there are two panels on the floor that dont fit with the design really, and they both have TX08 written on them.

You may be saying "So what?" but those are the exact same letters written on the headrest of Joker's chair in the cockpit.

Kinda odd to see them in the godchild's room as well.

[Sammuthegreat]

balance5050 wrote...
Tree's make it seem like it is actually a trippy hallucination or dream. Your final dream has dead trees in it like the other dreams, but it ends with you embracing the kid and then being engulfed in flames. But then this CRAZY dream happens and you see that kid, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

Either way, trees don't belong there, something's up.

Yeah... hmm, I dunno. I'm still not convinced. Obviously trees don't belong in on the Crucible, given that it's in space and "no organic has ever been there before" or whatever it was. But that brings me back to the fact that in-game, in the StarBrat scene, the trees aren't actually there, right?

I think there are trippier things in the final scene than some very hard-to-spot reflections that may or may not have been put there on purpose or accidentally forgotten.

[MegumiAzusa]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote..
Fair enough... I missed the tree-reflection argument, I don't understand how it can be interpreted as evidence in favour of IT. Could someone please explain it to me?

As for the colours, I understand that RGB are standard colour components, but that's just it - RGB. Not BGR. It seems especially coincidental given that the end is presented in the exact same way, with those exact same base colours in the exact same order.

I don't think it makes or breaks IT, but I think it's evidence nonetheless.

The tree reflection thing is that the whole crucible has trees around the edges, only visible in the reflections of things. I wonder where else in the game you find youself surrounded by trees..

http://wenchy.net/stupidity/trees.png 

Right, but given that the trees aren't actually there in-game (I am right in thinking that, right? That they're in the cube maps but not in the actual scene?), couldn't you just as easily say that the trees were removed but the devs didn't notice they'd left the reflections there? It's not like they're obvious, they could easily have been missed.

No, the trees are clearly drawn, never actually modeled. They were placed as 2D sprites for the purpose of rendering the cubemaps.

[balance5050]

SS2Dante wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Speaking of Bioware and Subliminal and speculation and stretching late last night I played through the good red ending to get some more screenshots to review. Earlier that night I talked about Big Ben a little bit, so took a shot of the time displayed before the wave hit. It's either 9:56 or 9:57, googled it and came back with some bible quotes:

Luke 9:56 "for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." And they went on to another village."
Luke 9:57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

That's kind of interesting. Particularly the second one. Though, I don't think its relevant to IT. It explains Shepard either way.

I see Byne Sammuthegreat (sorry!) already pointed out the significance of RGB vs. BGR. But I'll say, I'm not really sure how this fits as evidence for IT.

I fear we've descended into straw grasping, and that if we give these obscure things (like RGB, and ghost trees) to much credence we'll be undermining our own case. They're interesting and worth searching out and acknowledging, but I think we should be real careful about how we incorporate them into the theory.

I'm confused as to why you think the ghost trees are grasping at straws? I mean, they're one solid bit of connecting evidence between the crucible scene and the dreams that absolutely cannot be explained away by "bad writing" or "bioware were lazy".

Yeah, the trees aren't grasping, that s*** is legit.

[llbountyhunter]

byne wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

byne wrote...

So, I just finished Rannoch on this current playthrough.

I love how the laser from the Destroyer on Rannoch AND the Destroyer on Earth are powerful enough to instantly kill you, but Harbinger's laser is only powerful enough to knock you down.

Which begs the question - was Harbinger really trying to kill Shepard?

Because obviously Harbinger's beam is powerful enough to do that. 

If you actually stand still and dont rush the conduit, you'll see basically an endless wave of marines charging the beam, and Harbinger directly hits every single one of them with his laser. Never once does he first start on the ground and then lead his beam slowly towards them, and never once does one of them survive. They are all completely vaporized.

Theres no possible way Harby was trying to kill Shepard. I mean, even if you believe the endings as they stand are the actual endings, Harby still just flies off after Shep stands up. He didnt even make sure she was dead.

Or....... the halucination started at the shuttle crash. maybe.

[SS2Dante]

byne wrote...

Shepard: I think we'd rather keep our own forms.
Catalyst: No, you cant. Now please choose between these three options, two of which will allow you to keep your own forms, and one of which will allow you to have a slightly modified version of your own form.

Oh Godchild, you so crazy.

Anyway, the reason I went to godchild's room was because I wanted to check on something I recall being mentioned a while ago. (Like 1500+ pages ago)

Whats up with the two panels on the floor behind where you first start in that room?

Next to the elevator, there are two panels on the floor that dont fit with the design really, and they both have TX08 written on them.

You may be saying "So what?" but those are the exact same letters written on the headrest of Joker's chair in the cockpit.

Kinda odd to see them in the godchild's room as well.

If they're the panels I think you're referring to they're also all over the normandy engineering section.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

What?

[balance5050]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Tree's make it seem like it is actually a trippy hallucination or dream. Your final dream has dead trees in it like the other dreams, but it ends with you embracing the kid and then being engulfed in flames. But then this CRAZY dream happens and you see that kid, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

Either way, trees don't belong there, something's up.

Yeah... hmm, I dunno. I'm still not convinced. Obviously trees don't belong in on the Crucible, given that it's in space and "no organic has ever been there before" or whatever it was. But that brings me back to the fact that in-game, in the StarBrat scene, the trees aren't actually there, right?

I think there are trippier things in the final scene than some very hard-to-spot reflections that may or may not have been put there on purpose or accidentally forgotten.

They are there though, they're in the reflection, it shows that the simulation isn't perfect.

[Hawk227]

SS2Dante wrote...


I'm confused as to why you think the ghost trees are grasping at straws? I mean, they're one solid bit of connecting evidence between the crucible scene and the dreams that absolutely cannot be explained away by "bad writing" or "bioware were lazy".

That's not what the trees look like in those dreams. They aren't readily visible. I've only been able to make out one of them without the photoshop effort to accentuate them. They could be evidence, but to me we don't have a satisfactory explanation of their relevance and purpose.

Basically this:

Byne Sammuthegreat wrote.....I think there are trippier things in the final scene than some very
hard-to-spot reflections that may or may not have been put there on
purpose or accidentally forgotten.

I'm just advising caution.

Modifié par Hawk227, 01 mai 2012 - 10:15 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Hawk227 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Surprised to see so many people rejecting this as grasping at Emergency Induction Ports. The colours are even arranged in the same order as in the end choice scene - Blue on the left, Green in the middle and Red on the right.

That is how the color spectrum works:
http://upload.wikime...le_spectrum.svg

I'm not very good at optics or the EMF spectrum, but I posit this as a counter point:

Computer color spectrum.

What is there a counter point? That it's called RGB? You know actually most graphics formats are called BGR because that is the actual byte order they are saved on (little-endian, as it's the endinanness most common on current systems)?

[llbountyhunter]

Hawk227 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


I'm confused as to why you think the ghost trees are grasping at straws? I mean, they're one solid bit of connecting evidence between the crucible scene and the dreams that absolutely cannot be explained away by "bad writing" or "bioware were lazy".

That's not what the trees look like in those dreams. They aren't readily visible. I've only been able to make out one of them without the photoshop effort to accentuate them. They could be evidence, but to me we don't have a satisfactory explanation of their relevance and purpose.

I'm just advising caution.

I pictures- but if you go back and play it, you can make them out, its easier to see them when your walking.

[Sammuthegreat]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote..
Fair enough... I missed the tree-reflection argument, I don't understand how it can be interpreted as evidence in favour of IT. Could someone please explain it to me?

As for the colours, I understand that RGB are standard colour components, but that's just it - RGB. Not BGR. It seems especially coincidental given that the end is presented in the exact same way, with those exact same base colours in the exact same order.

I don't think it makes or breaks IT, but I think it's evidence nonetheless.

The tree reflection thing is that the whole crucible has trees around the edges, only visible in the reflections of things. I wonder where else in the game you find youself surrounded by trees..

http://wenchy.net/stupidity/trees.png 

Right, but given that the trees aren't actually there in-game (I am right in thinking that, right? That they're in the cube maps but not in the actual scene?), couldn't you just as easily say that the trees were removed but the devs didn't notice they'd left the reflections there? It's not like they're obvious, they could easily have been missed.

No, the trees are clearly drawn, never actually modeled. They were placed as 2D sprites for the purpose of rendering the cubemaps.

OK... so does that mean they're actually not there in the Crucible scene in-game then? Sorry to be dense, I'm really sleepy and my brain's going slow tonight, but I think whether or not I believe in this bit of evidence hinges on whether the trees were actually used. If the trees were drawn but then never actually made it into the game, then I don't think I'd personally call it evidence, especially when the reflections are so vague that they could easily have been overlooked by the devs.

If the trees are genuinely there, though, then that's a different story, as clearly there's a link between trees and Shepard's dreams.

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Tree's make it seem like it is actually a trippy hallucination or dream. Your final dream has dead trees in it like the other dreams, but it ends with you embracing the kid and then being engulfed in flames. But then this CRAZY dream happens and you see that kid, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

Either way, trees don't belong there, something's up.

Yeah... hmm, I dunno. I'm still not convinced. Obviously trees don't belong in on the Crucible, given that it's in space and "no organic has ever been there before" or whatever it was. But that brings me back to the fact that in-game, in the StarBrat scene, the trees aren't actually there, right?

I think there are trippier things in the final scene than some very hard-to-spot reflections that may or may not have been put there on purpose or accidentally forgotten.

They are there though, they're in the reflection, it shows that the simulation isn't perfect.

Hehe, we as video game players would expect it the other way: trees there but no reflection. But yeah, that one would be too easy. You gotta make the fans speculate!

[SS2Dante]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Tree's make it seem like it is actually a trippy hallucination or dream. Your final dream has dead trees in it like the other dreams, but it ends with you embracing the kid and then being engulfed in flames. But then this CRAZY dream happens and you see that kid, there are tree's around, bu they are in full bloom, to further make Synthesis seem like a good idea or some weird s***.

Either way, trees don't belong there, something's up.

Yeah... hmm, I dunno. I'm still not convinced. Obviously trees don't belong in on the Crucible, given that it's in space and "no organic has ever been there before" or whatever it was. But that brings me back to the fact that in-game, in the StarBrat scene, the trees aren't actually there, right?

I think there are trippier things in the final scene than some very hard-to-spot reflections that may or may not have been put there on purpose or accidentally forgotten.

In game they're not there, only in the reflections. But there's zero reason for the trees to EVER have been in the crucible room, since clearly they were never solid models (hence the level of pixelisation). The fact that it's trees is hugely important, since they are literally the only thing you can lift from the dreams to show a common theme. I can't buy for a second that in some alternate reality they planned to have large trees in the crucible then decided to remove them and forgot to alter the cubemaps to fit.

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

byne wrote...

So, I just finished Rannoch on this current playthrough.

I love how the laser from the Destroyer on Rannoch AND the Destroyer on Earth are powerful enough to instantly kill you, but Harbinger's laser is only powerful enough to knock you down.

Which begs the question - was Harbinger really trying to kill Shepard?

Because obviously Harbinger's beam is powerful enough to do that. 

If you actually stand still and dont rush the conduit, you'll see basically an endless wave of marines charging the beam, and Harbinger directly hits every single one of them with his laser. Never once does he first start on the ground and then lead his beam slowly towards them, and never once does one of them survive. They are all completely vaporized.

Theres no possible way Harby was trying to kill Shepard. I mean, even if you believe the endings as they stand are the actual endings, Harby still just flies off after Shep stands up. He didnt even make sure she was dead.

Or....... the halucination started at the shuttle crash. maybe.

I'm starting to drift toward this this idea too, especially after reading this:

http://www.reddit.co...t_breakthrough/ 

which basically gives insight to how Major Coats could be a turncoat.

Modifié par balance5050, 01 mai 2012 - 10:15 .

[lex0r11]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...
I see Byne already pointed out the significance of RGB vs. BGR

Not the first time I've been confused with our great and illustrious OP. Maybe I should change my display pic.

Yeah, not the first time you made someones head hurt! Make it stop!

*can't take it anymore*