57139 réponses à ce sujet

[krystalevenstar]

Devil Mingy wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

Though it was before my time, there is one word to describe why this whole thing is silly...


Dallas

It was all a dream...sorry for wasting your time.  >.<

Yes of course the dream trope has been used before, but this case is unique. This is Bioware actively immersing the player in their own indoctrination. Do you stick to your convictions, or do you let the Reapers convince you of another option? If you stick to your convictions, you get the scene where you're waking in the rubble. You kept your resolve, you get to see this through to the end.

In a manner of speaking, anyway.

My problem as of now is that, even if this indoctrination theory is true, we still have an ending that provides no closure to the series (and at least looking at the endings as they are solves the Reaper threat).

This could be solved with DLC, but the fact that Bioware would intentionally charge $60-80 for a game without an ending leads to another issue entirely.

The prevailing theory right now, supported by some unused content found on the disk, is that the real ending -is- on the disk, we just can't access it yet. Bioware has said they'll say more once the game is out everywhere and more people have time to beat it. Chances are they'll just have to patch a signal that opens the game for everyone. Which is convienantly why there's an autosave right when the 'dream' begins. Also, it's a genius way to prevent the actual ending from leaking before everyone has a chance to experience it.

[holyshock18]

Debi-Tage wrote...

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

Ems need to be 5000

[Mr. Mistake]

lavosslayer wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

thats why....you need over 4k if you manage to save anderson and over 5k if you dont...otherwise...your reaper bait

I've heard a lot about this "save anderson". Is it even possible? If so, how?

[Saile]

never mind this, I suck at editing and quoted instead.

Modifié par Sailers, 12 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[lavosslayer]

Mr. Mistake wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

thats why....you need over 4k if you manage to save anderson and over 5k if you dont...otherwise...your reaper bait

I've heard a lot about this "save anderson". Is it even possible? If so, how?

He still dies just not at the hands of the Illusive Man...

[desert116]

Mr. Mistake wrote...

I've heard a lot about this "save anderson". Is it even possible? If so, how?

That just means stopping TIM from shooting him in the head. He dies anyway.

[Fledgey]

Dessalines wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

 You need 4,000 EMS and not let IM kill Anderson to get the scene. You need 5.000 EMS, and it does not matter if Anderson dies by the IM's hand.

Come to think of it, this makes sense. The more EMS you have, the longer it has taken you to get to this point and let the reapers take their hold. However, the more EMS you have the stronger your resolve is. At 5000 you're near the maximum you can get so you're ready for whatever those bastards throw at you. If you lose anderson you take a hit to morale but with enough strength behind you you don't lose hope. When you have that last talk with anderson you know his sacrifice wasn't in vain.

TL;DR EMS is as much a measurement of strength as it is Shepard's resolve.

Modifié par Fledgey, 12 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[TamiBx]

Rifneno wrote...

The EMS meter doesn't help the "they wouldn't screw offline only players!" argument. Because you're not getting 5000 EMS offline. I seriously doubt even 4000 is possible. But those are for the "best" endings.

I've tried. I did all the side quests(choosing the sides that would only increase EMS, not decrease), got the best outcomes for the major decisions, scanned all the planets...the only thing "wrong" that I did was save the council in ME1, but that does not explain the 400+ gap in EMS that I had by the end of the game....another thing Bioware needs to clarify...but that one can wait. 

[Golferguy758]

How many damn times does it need to be said that the"endings" we got aren't actually the endings

[Saile]

[quote]MrAtomica wrote...

How is TIM able to control Shepard and Anderson, if this isn't a hallucination brought on by indoctrination? I thought his tech only affected those suffering from indoctrination.[/quote]

I actually figured the reapers were trying to indoctrinate Shepard and Anderson through TIM and that they broke free ... until I saw the Star Child and read this, anyway.

[/quote]

[quote]Mr. Mistake wrote....

I've heard a lot about this "save anderson". Is it even possible? If so, how?[/quote]

It's "saving" him- by using the renegade intercept, or the final paragon (and possibly renegade dialogue? I don't know) you kill TIM, and get a couple of extra lines together with Anderson. He always ends up dying, however.

Modifié par Sailers, 12 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Dessalines]

MrAtomica wrote...

How is TIM able to control Shepard and Anderson, if this isn't a hallucination brought on by indoctrination? I thought his tech only affected those suffering from indoctrination.

That is a good point.

[Aigik]

Golferguy758 wrote...

How many damn times does it need to be said that the"endings" we got aren't actually the endings

i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/I_C_Weener/ancient-aliens-guy.jpg

[GBGriffin]

Golferguy758 wrote...

How many damn times does it need to be said that the"endings" we got aren't actually the endings

...To be fair, that hasn't been established yet because BioWare hasn't said anything. Right now, it's just as eay to assume they are. We can't speak for them with 100% certainty.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 12 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[njfluffy19]

desert116 wrote...

Mr. Mistake wrote...

I've heard a lot about this "save anderson". Is it even possible? If so, how?

That just means stopping TIM from shooting him in the head. He dies anyway.

Wow, I thought he somehow survived. Now I am bummed. Though, I'd sacrfice him in a heartbeat if it meant Shep's survival.

[BlackDragonBane]

 I've been thinking, with Shepard being exposed to so many indoctrinationing devices, why wasn't the indoctrination process faster. Ignoring the fact that Shepard spent 2 years dead, even Saren succumbed in a matter of months and there were times were he was not directly in contact with Sovereign nor recieved the implants till MUCH later in ME1.

This was brought up before but what if the contact with the first Prothean becon, and then recieving the Cypher on Feros changed something about the indoctrination itself? The Cypher was needed so Shepard could understand the warning message the Beacons burned into his/her mind, that Shepard had to THINK like a Prothean. Shepard even understands the garbled VI (not Vigil) on Illos, so Shepard's mind is, quite clearly, part Prothean after Feros.

We're all aware of the effects of Indoctrination and under the circumstances, the Reapers shouldn't be all that worried about Shepard succeded because eventually, Shepard will succumb. Not even Benezia could completely resist and ended up falling prey to indoctrination. The Illusive Man fell under indoctrination, if you analyze Cerebrus's actions in ME3 in comparison to how he was in ME2.

Going along with that, perhaps the real reason that Harbinger wanted Shepard's body after the destruction of the Normandy, that it wants to control Shepard so badly is because Shepard's mind is, in fact, no longer human but thinks as two different species housed in one body. It's something the Reapers have never encountered before and its given Shepard the ability to fight the effects of indoctrination successfully. This is a variable they could not account for. Sure, tehre's the question of Saren but he was already indoctrinatnated long before finding the beacon.

Perhaps this is why Harbinger/Catalys present the choices to Shepard in the hallucination, because it knows that the 'conventional' method of indoctrination is not going to work on Shepard and it needs to convince Shepard, subtly, that submitting to indoctrination is the only way to stop the Reapers, much like how Saren was convinced working with the Reapers would save more lives than resisting them.

Just a thought.

[Animorphs]

Synthecx wrote...

I was already a bit concerned when I saw the death of the child in the beginning, when I played the demo...
It was definetively a strategical psycological move.
You wouldn't let a child die in the first 5-10min of a game! It's a bit like the death of Shep in ME2...
They want you to hate the Reapers and show that you can't save everyone and especially not the WHOLE galaxy!
Right from the beginning you are shown that in the end there isn't a real win, even if you defete the Reapers...

Maybe this whole indoctrination theory works like this but the more I look at it the more things catches my attention as possibly rellevant.
Maybe someone mentioned it already but maybe that kid wasn't 'real' kid from the very beginning.
I mean when Shep's trying to help the kid, the boy says "You cannot help" - not exactly a response one could expect considering a situation. Also later when we leave Earth and kid appears kind of nowhere nobody except Shepard seem to notice him. So maybe it's all part of indoctrination proccess from the very beginning.
That could explain why later catalyst looks like a kid.

I really hope there is something to this indoctrination theory because otherwise ...
wel...

[krystalevenstar]

Golferguy758 wrote...

How many damn times does it need to be said that the"endings" we got aren't actually the endings

I've learned over the last few days through this thread that very many things need to be reiterated ad nauseum as the newer people to the thread don't want to read through the 190 pages.

[Golferguy758]

Also anderson is not dead in the real world yet, at least it's not confirmed. The death in the citadel is a mental death in that he dies in shepard's mind

[skyworkeralan]

I'm just going to say that this thread gave me hope and strength in the franchise again...for any of you familiar with Japanese Anime, does it appear to you that this feels a lot like how Evangelion first ended? Their budget got really low at the end so they scraped the epic final battle and replaced it with a stream of conscience psych profile of Shiji Ikari, the main protagonist. You bet there was a **** storm after it aired but they made two movies right after to bring out the true ending of the series and saved their asses. And now it is regarded a classic in anime history partly because of that ending as "no one has ever tried to troll the audience like this".

My point is, if the hallucination theory is true (or bioware can manage to steer to that path), ME can effectively redeem itself and may go down the history as the most amazing game franchise of all time as no one in the industry has the balls to fool their fans into the main antagonist's scheme and make them think this is how it ends.

[cobnut]

I like the indoctrination/dream/hallucination theories as well. And the more i think about them, the more they make sense: Harbingers beam, the weird architecture of the citadel, Anderson follows you but arrives the console before you, illusive man's random performance, the damn Skykid and its stupid choices.

Only the right choice lets you break through the indoctrination, wake up, kick some reaper asses and give the trilogy the ending it deserves.

THIS would be absolutely genius and I would honor Bioware til doomsday.

On top of that I just refuse to belief that Bioware is able to make such a ****ty ending accidentally.

[Elendstourist]

A tree from the child dream on the destroyed earth? I dont think so...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a8kxhx.jpg

[Debi-Tage]

holyshock18 wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

So wait a minute - when exactly does everyone get the scene in destroy when Shepard takes breath? I just replayed and chose the destroy option - as a femshep I thought "well, if i see a female N7 lying there I will know for sure that is supposed to be an image of Shepard" but...I never got that scene. The credits are rolling as I speak. All saw once i shot the tube was flashbacks of Joker, Anderson and my LI. Then it scans to earth and shows the troops in London fighting reapers that suddenly "deactivate" and then all the troops cheer. The crucible/citadel explodes and then the mass relays. Then Joker, Garrus and my LI emerge on the garden planet...? I never get the rubble-breathing-shepard? Maybe I need to get my readiness rating up? Here's my numbers: TMS:5394, Readiness Rating: 63%, EMS: 3398. What matters overall your TMS or EMS?

Ems need to be 5000

Thanks everyone for answering - this clarifies things! Starting 2nd replay now and going to get everything maxed. I wanna save Anderson and breathe in the rubble too!

[insaner2play]

skyworkeralan wrote...

I'm just going to say that this thread gave me hope and strength in the franchise again...for any of you familiar with Japanese Anime, does it appear to you that this feels a lot like how Evangelion first ended? Their budget got really low at the end so they scraped the epic final battle and replaced it with a stream of conscience psych profile of Shiji Ikari, the main protagonist. You bet there was a **** storm after it aired but they made two movies right after to bring out the true ending of the series and saved their asses. And now it is regarded a classic in anime history partly because of that ending as "no one has ever tried to troll the audience like this".

My point is, if the hallucination theory is true (or bioware can manage to steer to that path), ME can effectively redeem itself and may go down the history as the most amazing game franchise of all time as no one in the industry has the balls to fool their fans into the main antagonist's scheme and make them think this is how it ends.

I thought so too. That's why I steered away from the Synthesis ending, it reminded me of Evangelion. *back to lurking and refreshing*

[Ashii6]

Anyone noticed Shepard's eyes, when he chose " control ending " ?

Looks identical to TIM's eyes.

[Recon911PDW]

The answer is right in our faces. If you chose to destroy the Reapers and if you have enough war assets then it will show Shepard clearly back on Earth in London in the rubble right after the beam hit. In this case the whole theory about it being a hallucination/indoctrination is correct.

I see too many people forgetting about the scene where Shepard is lying in concrete rubble. It also shows that scene right after the Normandy crash landing scene. Shepard would be dead if that explosion actually happened up in space. As for the other choices, they are a test to see if Shepard will give into what the Reapers want. There is only one choice that is the right one and that is to destroy the Reapers like Shepard has been wanting to do all along so he can break out of this hallusination. To control them is what TIM wanted and to combine them with organics is what Saren wanted, think about it.

The only way for Shepard to wake up from this nightmare is to choose destroy, and thats the only way to get the scene where it shows him in the rubble still alive, and thats only if enough war assets were acquired.