57139 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

Derelict Reaper (HENCE WHY ME2 IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PLOT SUBASTRIS.)

Reaper IFF doesn't help.

Object Rho acts as a booster.

Is there anything in ME2 that makes you so sure that the Derelict Reaper caused the indoctrination? 

LOL! the entire mission? "Even a dead god dreams." You at least remeber that bit right?

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

Derelict Reaper (HENCE WHY ME2 IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PLOT SUBASTRIS.)

Reaper IFF doesn't help.

Object Rho acts as a booster.

Is there anything in ME2 that makes you so sure that the Derelict Reaper caused the indoctrination? 

All the video logs of people becoming indoctrinated on it

After spending a lot of time on it, whilst Shepard is on there for a few hours at the most

[Arian Dynas]

Unschuld wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

1.) I don't follow.
2.) LOL yeah, because the writers couldn't make up their own minds about that. Patrick Weekes said it himself, he argued she should have died. Why the blatant inconsistency took place is beyond me, but knowing that, it's hardly ground to call him a liar.

1. Two words: Reverse. Psychology.

You're assuming human attributes on a decidedly non-human entity. 

So... you're saying that a non-human organism adept in the skill of manipulating other organisms couldn't possibly use current psychological tactics known to to us (and successfully used by us to manipulate the thoughts of others) simply because it's non human (even though this entire race of Reapers/Catalyst/Mass Effect is created and written by humans)?

WHAAAATTT?! :huh::huh:

You serious?

Considering that banshees alone show the Reapers adept at psychological warefare, as well as.... let's see EVERY SINGLE TACTIC THEY HAVE EVER USED illustrates a deep understanding of our psychology, yeah, I think they can live up to that pretty well.

[Unschuld]

SubAstris wrote...

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Yep. Nothing odd about it at all. Nope.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

Derelict Reaper (HENCE WHY ME2 IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PLOT SUBASTRIS.)

Reaper IFF doesn't help.

Object Rho acts as a booster.

Is there anything in ME2 that makes you so sure that the Derelict Reaper caused the indoctrination? 

It indoctrinated all the scientists working on it.

Adrenaline supposedly increases the rate at which indoctrination takes place, and I'd figure with all the fighting you did on the Derelict Reaper, your adrenaline would be pretty high.

Anyways, I still think Object Rho would really be what caused it, since you were unconscious near it for two whole days.

They'd probly only fall back to the Derelict Reaper explanation if you didnt do Arrival, which is admittedly a weaker explanation, but their explanation for how Arrival happened if you didnt play the DLC is already pretty weak, so I figure they just assume most people played it.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

You didn't think their shodaows pointing in different directions was? What abouthow TIM "needs" you to believe he can control the reapers? TIM was learning to control husks, not organics. That scene has a lot of weirdness.

[Simon_Says]

SubAstris wrote...

Is the fact that there is so much discussion about where the indoc. actually happened show a) BW didn't intend it or It was shoddily executed?

Could be, yes. On the other hand it could be interpretted that Bioware laid so many indoctrination vectors throughout the series specifically to enforce that it's an insidious process you won't know has happened, or how it happened, until it's far too late.

Again, IT relies on the assumption that Bioware didn't screw up. Change that assumption, everything false apart. Knowing how well the rest of the game went, we're kind of doubtful they'd frell things up so badly at the last moment.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 02 mai 2012 - 07:59 .

[Rosewind]

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

Derelict Reaper (HENCE WHY ME2 IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PLOT SUBASTRIS.)

Reaper IFF doesn't help.

Object Rho acts as a booster.

Is there anything in ME2 that makes you so sure that the Derelict Reaper caused the indoctrination? 

Besides the research team all being indoctrinated and turned into husks?

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Modifié par SS2Dante, 02 mai 2012 - 07:59 .

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Nothing odd about TIM suddenly being able to indoctrinate people on his own?

Even Saren didnt have that power, and he was a far more trusted agent to the Reapers.

You could claim TIM was controlling Shep through her implants, but Anderson had no implants, and TIM could control him too.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

Oh, I wasnt saying cutting it and adding it in later was their original plan, I'm just saying cutting it was stupid, and they need to put it back in.

[Arian Dynas]

SubAstris. 

Have you played any of the other games prior to ME3 at all?

It's a legitimate question, according to this your profile was made this year and has only one game registered to it.

So please, tell me, have you played ME1 and ME2 previously, at all?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

[SubAstris]

Simon_Says wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Is the fact that there is so much discussion about where the indoc. actually happened show a) BW didn't intend it or It was shoddily executed?

Could be, yes. On the other hand it could be interpretted that Bioware laid so many indoctrination vectors throughout the series specifically to enforce that it's an insidious process you won't know has happened until it's far too late.

Again, IT relies on the assumption that Bioware didn't screw up. Change that assumption, everything false apart. Knowing how well the rest of the game went, we're kind of doubtful they'd frell things up so badly at the last moment.

I don't suppose you have seen any of the youtuber smudboy's videos? He has a plot analysis of all the games, pretty in-depth stuff. I realise that he could be considered very controversial and I don't agree with all his points, but nonetheless they are worth a look to see some of BW's mistakes

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

I presume that you like many other IT theorists believe the EC starts after Shepard wakes up on Earth. If so, my point still holds, it does seem strange

[Tirian Thorn]

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

Derelict Reaper (HENCE WHY ME2 IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PLOT SUBASTRIS.)

Reaper IFF doesn't help.

Object Rho acts as a booster.

Is there anything in ME2 that makes you so sure that the Derelict Reaper caused the indoctrination? 

How about all the videos of the Cerberus personnel showing signs of being Indoctrinated?  And the fact they were turned into husks? 

That's a BIG clue that there was indoctrination at work. 

[Unschuld]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

.. TIM's face, Anderson's magical speed, first time without "TIM music" (though admittedly possible due to mood of scene), things looking like what you've previously encountered in other games...

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

theres a debate about that at the moment...

A) the harbinger hits shepard with the laser running down the hill

or 

when the shuttle crashes on there way to the beam.


Im personally leaning more toward the shuttle crash

 

Oh if he meant WHEN DOES THE PROCESS of indoctrination begin, then I have already given an answer, when does the HALLUCINATION begin, most theoriest agree that it was when Harbinger hit shepard with the beam weapon.

I'm kinda leaning toward the shuttle crash at the moment, because it doesnt involve everyone running straight at the beam in a single file line, screaming at the top of their lungs.

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

[Rosewind]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

I presume that you like many other IT theorists believe the EC starts after Shepard wakes up on Earth. If so, my point still holds, it does seem strange

I don't beleive that, I beleive it will be like The witcher 2 EC and add in a whole menagerie of things that will "clarify" and "extend"

[byne]

Unschuld wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

.. TIM's face, Anderson's magical speed, first time without "TIM music" (though admittedly possible due to mood of scene), things looking like what you've previously encountered in other games...

Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

[SS2Dante]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

theres a debate about that at the moment...

A) the harbinger hits shepard with the laser running down the hill

or 

when the shuttle crashes on there way to the beam.


Im personally leaning more toward the shuttle crash

 

Oh if he meant WHEN DOES THE PROCESS of indoctrination begin, then I have already given an answer, when does the HALLUCINATION begin, most theoriest agree that it was when Harbinger hit shepard with the beam weapon.

I'm kinda leaning toward the shuttle crash at the moment, because it doesnt involve everyone running straight at the beam in a single file line, screaming at the top of their lungs.

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

Agreed on all points.

[MaximizedAction]

Rosewind wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

Interesting catch! Can't remember reading this one here, before.