57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

.. TIM's face, Anderson's magical speed, first time without "TIM music" (though admittedly possible due to mood of scene), things looking like what you've previously encountered in other games...

Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

[balance5050]

Rosewind wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

Another small detail is in the subtitles; Anderson is always just Anderson, but up in the Citadel he becomes "Admiral" Anderson.

Modifié par balance5050, 02 mai 2012 - 08:09 .

[SS2Dante]

EDIT - balance just said the exact same thing above

Modifié par SS2Dante, 02 mai 2012 - 08:07 .

[estebanus]

I don't know if you already participated in it, but there's an official survey going on about Mass Effect 3 in the german community. Jessica Merizan even tweeted it, so I would appericiate it if you would take the time to fill out the survey!

Link: http://www.masseffec...ts--id-974.html

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

These are my responses, feel free to disagree
1 &2) I can't remember specific instances of these, care to provide link with timings where you think they are?
3) On the Cerberus base, there is a log that tells you that TIM has been fitted with implants.
4) Like most megalomaniacs, TIM wants you to believe because he thinks he is right.
5) I guess you are talking about Anderson dying and living, I don't really know how this could be used as evidence specifically for IT
6) By platforms that appear I guess you mean when Shep and Anderson sit down. I'm sure this is not to do with indoctrination and more to do with getting a nice scene of the two both looking at the view. Because after all, it does look nice, the same effect could not have been achieved if Anderson was flat on the floor.
7) Hackett sees the Citadel arms open. He knows that Shepard was on the team to get to the Citadel and he was their best chance. So when he opens, he assumes that Shepard is the one there.

[Rosewind]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

Interesting catch! Can't remember reading this one here, before.

Actually I did read it on here but was back around page 400-500, but once it was pointed out, I did pick it up in game.

[llbountyhunter]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

So hold on, where exactly does Shepard start becoming indoctrinated anyway?

theres a debate about that at the moment...

A) the harbinger hits shepard with the laser running down the hill

or 

when the shuttle crashes on there way to the beam.


Im personally leaning more toward the shuttle crash

 

Oh if he meant WHEN DOES THE PROCESS of indoctrination begin, then I have already given an answer, when does the HALLUCINATION begin, most theoriest agree that it was when Harbinger hit shepard with the beam weapon.

I'm kinda leaning toward the shuttle crash at the moment, because it doesnt involve everyone running straight at the beam in a single file line, screaming at the top of their lungs.

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

well technically the shuttle crash has the white light too.

I see the charge as the bridge between reality and full indoctrination. during the charge there are elements of both, but when harbinger begins his full mental assult  on shepard (repressented by the laser) it become more dream-like.

kinda like dreaming- you dont go from stage 1 to 4 in one leap.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 02 mai 2012 - 08:14 .

[MaximizedAction]

Rosewind wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

Interesting catch! Can't remember reading this one here, before.

Actually I did read it on here but was back around page 400-500, but once it was pointed out, I did pick it up in game.

The more you know...

[Unschuld]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

True, it could just be a "coverup" hologram, and I'll have to go back and look again at some point. I figured his differing appearance (beginning with Mars) was due to updated textures and character models (like how my Shep looked almost completely different in the ME1-ME2-ME3 transition because of this). I didn't think it was a change because of his alterations.

[balance5050]

I think it's weird that the beam effectively forces Shep through layers of metal. and Shep is also flipped upside down in respect to the Earth.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

Not to mention Hackett says "Shepard, Commander" not his usual "Commander Shepard" Only Legion calls Shep "Shepard, Commander"

Another small detail is in the subtitles; Anderson is always just Anderson, but up in the Citadel he becomes "Admiral" Anderson.

The Citadel bit is the ending, it is meant to be grand. Referring to him in a slightly different way is not strange, since it singles out those moments from the rest of the scenes. There is a definite change in tone to a grandiose style. And anyway it doesn't seem to support IT anyway.

[MegumiAzusa]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

I presume that you like many other IT theorists believe the EC starts after Shepard wakes up on Earth. If so, my point still holds, it does seem strange

I don't beleive that, I beleive it will be like The witcher 2 EC and add in a whole menagerie of things that will "clarify" and "extend"

Do that in TIM voice! (Seriously every time I hear "I don't believe that')

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 02 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

So Anderson's plan is like yet another of Sarge's plans?! (even down to saying it right after their vehicle crashes!)

And Grif makes a good point too: Why cant Harbinger kill all of them? If you just sit and watch as an endless horde or troops run by you, Harby kills every single one of them with precision laser blasts.

Modifié par byne, 02 mai 2012 - 08:14 .

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

The Citadel bit is the ending, it is meant to be grand. Referring to him in a slightly different way is not strange, since it singles out those moments from the rest of the scenes. There is a definite change in tone to a grandiose style. And anyway it doesn't seem to support IT anyway.

Changing something in the subtitles alone is hardly "grandiose"

Modifié par balance5050, 02 mai 2012 - 08:16 .

[Arian Dynas]

Unschuld wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

True, it could just be a "coverup" hologram, and I'll have to go back and look again at some point. I figured his differing appearance (beginning with Mars) was due to updated textures and character models (like how my Shep looked almost completely different in the ME1-ME2-ME3 transition because of this). I didn't think it was a change because of his alterations.

... By which I had meant that it is entirely possible that it is merely the "grain" of the hologram (the horizontal bars) that we see several times.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

I presume that you like many other IT theorists believe the EC starts after Shepard wakes up on Earth. If so, my point still holds, it does seem strange

I don't beleive that, I beleive it will be like The witcher 2 EC and add in a whole menagerie of things that will "clarify" and "extend"

So from beam to end that will be stripped away and then replaced with a totally new bit, is that you are saying?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I don't beleive that, I beleive it will be like The witcher 2 EC and add in a whole menagerie of things that will "clarify" and "extend"

So from beam to end that will be stripped away and then replaced with a totally new bit, is that you are saying?

LOL! Noooo. I'm saying that everything you see will be there, plus a lot more.

Modifié par balance5050, 02 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

The Citadel bit is the ending, it is meant to be grand. Referring to him in a slightly different way is not strange, since it singles out those moments from the rest of the scenes. There is a definite change in tone to a grandiose style. And anyway it doesn't seem to support IT anyway.

Changing something in the subtitles alone is hardly "grandiose"

Not on its own, it adds to the general atmosphere though.

[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

These are my responses, feel free to disagree
1 &2) I can't remember specific instances of these, care to provide link with timings where you think they are?
3) On the Cerberus base, there is a log that tells you that TIM has been fitted with implants.
4) Like most megalomaniacs, TIM wants you to believe because he thinks he is right.
5) I guess you are talking about Anderson dying and living, I don't really know how this could be used as evidence specifically for IT
6) By platforms that appear I guess you mean when Shep and Anderson sit down. I'm sure this is not to do with indoctrination and more to do with getting a nice scene of the two both looking at the view. Because after all, it does look nice, the same effect could not have been achieved if Anderson was flat on the floor.
7) Hackett sees the Citadel arms open. He knows that Shepard was on the team to get to the Citadel and he was their best chance. So when he opens, he assumes that Shepard is the one there.

1)Here (time linked). Whispers begin at the deep "booom" noise. They continue all the way to the end of the cutscene.
http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=324s

2) In the link above you'll hear the drum beat the very second you first see TIM (it's like 10 seconds after where I linked).

3) Implants that let him control Anderson? 

4) The writers go out of their way to show that in ME3 TIM has lost  respect for Shepard. Odd that he needs validation when his goal is like 5 feet away and Shepard is paralysed.

5) The EMS boosts are in line with IT. In particular, if you convince TIM to fight indoctrination (cap himself) you only need 4000 EMS to "wake up". Works if he's a part of you, not so much in literal.

6) No it couldn't, but even a small animation of the platform being raised would have helped. Odd that they missed that. Also you didn't address the bullet wound?

7) But Hackett doesn't ask if Shep is there, he simply starts as if he knows. Even if he was going by who was missing he should have been calling for Anderson.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 02 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[llbountyhunter]

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

well technically the shuttle crash has the white light too.

I see the charge as the bridge between reality and full indoctrination. during the charge there are elements of both, but when harbinger begins his full mental assult  on shepard (repressented by the laser) it become more dream-like.

kinda like dreaming- you dont go from stage 1 to 4 in one leap.



no commment? 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 02 mai 2012 - 08:24 .

[Rosewind]

About the Face of TIM in the beginning how some one said it looked different in person then in the hologram, I just think that was a lighting issue it happens to other people in the cinematics some times.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Well, considering we know that at least TIM is still alive, I'm fairly sure he will.

Not sure about Anderson, but if he does, Bioware damned well better include his entire dying speech if they kill him again.

So BW made a touching speech with Anderson at the end just for it to be replaced later on in the DLC with a slightly longer adapted speech? Strikes me as odd

LOL! what do you think the EC is? "EXTENDED" cut

I presume that you like many other IT theorists believe the EC starts after Shepard wakes up on Earth. If so, my point still holds, it does seem strange

I don't beleive that, I beleive it will be like The witcher 2 EC and add in a whole menagerie of things that will "clarify" and "extend"

So from beam to end that will be stripped away and then replaced with a totally new bit, is that you are saying?

LOL! Noooo. I'm saying that everything you see will be there, plus a lot more.

And so two Anderson speeches?

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

True, it could just be a "coverup" hologram, and I'll have to go back and look again at some point. I figured his differing appearance (beginning with Mars) was due to updated textures and character models (like how my Shep looked almost completely different in the ME1-ME2-ME3 transition because of this). I didn't think it was a change because of his alterations.

... By which I had meant that it is entirely possible that it is merely the "grain" of the hologram (the horizontal bars) that we see several times.

No Arian, what I'm saying is when you actually see TIM himself and not as a hologram, his skin looks all weird.

[balance5050]

Rosewind wrote...

About the Face of TIM in the beginning how some one said it looked different in person then in the hologram, I just think that was a lighting issue it happens to other people in the cinematics some times.

No. TIM doesn't have the weird indoc facial scarring in the hologram, that's what they're referring to.

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

And so two Anderson speeches?

why are you asking us what happens in EC? we dont work for bioware you know.