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[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

So Anderson's plan is like yet another of Sarge's plans?! (even down to saying it right after their vehicle crashes!)

And Grif makes a good point too: Why cant Harbinger kill all of them? If you just sit and watch as an endless horde or troops run by you, Harby kills every single one of them with precision laser blasts.

Byne...

STOP COMPARING IT TO RED VERSUS BLUE.

Aside from the fact that Halo has as much to do with real military tactics as Twilight does with literature, really the only fictional comparison we SHOULD be relating is "Ender's Game"

Losses are not material, hence people are expendable as long as we get enough people to the victory point.

The target is the only significant thing, therefore the enemy itself, if it can be avoided is unimportant.

And in general, if you were in the same position, what possible answer would you have? Fight Harbinger? Not an option, you'd waste valuable time and lose, hard, getting Hammer wiped out with nothing gained.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 02 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

LOL! Noooo. I'm saying that everything you see will be there, plus a lot more.

And so two Anderson speeches?

Wut?

[Unschuld]

Arian Dynas wrote...

... By which I had meant that it is entirely possible that it is merely the "grain" of the hologram (the horizontal bars) that we see several times.

I see. Well on a different tangent if I were him trying to cover my true appearance with a holo I think I would have started by covering my eyes that the camera seems to focus on at every opportunity a long time ago.

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Do any IT theorists believe that TIM and Anderson will make an appearance in the EC? The ending taken at face-value ties up those character arcs quite nicely just saying

Probably, they're pretty big characters so assuming IT their story hasn't been concluded.

Face value does tie up the stories of TIm and Anderson, that's true, though there are also a metric tonne of odd things that happen during the TIM Anderson conversation.

I didn't really get the idea that that scene was particularly odd

Dream whispers, the crucible drum, TIms new powers, TIM telling you he "needs you to believe", the odd things that happen to your EMS, the bullet wound, both platforms that magically appear, Hacket magically knowing you're both alive AND on the citadel...

These are my responses, feel free to disagree
1 &2) I can't remember specific instances of these, care to provide link with timings where you think they are?
3) On the Cerberus base, there is a log that tells you that TIM has been fitted with implants.
4) Like most megalomaniacs, TIM wants you to believe because he thinks he is right.
5) I guess you are talking about Anderson dying and living, I don't really know how this could be used as evidence specifically for IT
6) By platforms that appear I guess you mean when Shep and Anderson sit down. I'm sure this is not to do with indoctrination and more to do with getting a nice scene of the two both looking at the view. Because after all, it does look nice, the same effect could not have been achieved if Anderson was flat on the floor.
7) Hackett sees the Citadel arms open. He knows that Shepard was on the team to get to the Citadel and he was their best chance. So when he opens, he assumes that Shepard is the one there.

1)Here (time linked). Whispers begin at the deep "booom" noise. They continue all the way to the end of the cutscene.
http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=324s

2) In the link above you'll hear the drum beat the very second you first see TIM (it's like 10 seconds after where I linked).

3) Implants that let him control Anderson? 

4) The writers go out of their way to show that in ME3 TIM has lost  respect for Shepard. Odd that he needs validation when his goal is like 5 feet away and Shepard is paralysed.

5) The EMS boosts are in line with IT. In particular, if you convince TIM to fight indoctrination (cap himself) you only need 4000 EMS to "wake up". Works if he's a part of you, not so much in literal.

6) No it couldn't, but even a small animation of the platform being raised would have helped. Odd that they missed that. Also you didn't address the bullet wound?

7) But Hackett doesn't ask if Shep is there, he simply starts as if he knows. Even if he was going by who was missing he should have been calling for Anderson.

I will just answer 4) very quickly, I'll do otherS a bit later. At the start of ME3, TIM is confident, he has Kai Leng on his side, one of the best assasins in the world, has a massive army, lots of time; at the end, it is just him and you. His fortunes have changed now, it has become more personal.

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

True, it could just be a "coverup" hologram, and I'll have to go back and look again at some point. I figured his differing appearance (beginning with Mars) was due to updated textures and character models (like how my Shep looked almost completely different in the ME1-ME2-ME3 transition because of this). I didn't think it was a change because of his alterations.

... By which I had meant that it is entirely possible that it is merely the "grain" of the hologram (the horizontal bars) that we see several times.

No Arian, what I'm saying is when you actually see TIM himself and not as a hologram, his skin looks all weird.

I see a very distinct sneer, but no problems with his skin to my eyes. I can make that expression too.

[spotlessvoid]

balance5050 wrote...

I think it's weird that the beam effectively forces Shep through layers of metal. and Shep is also flipped upside down in respect to the Earth.

Yeah, where is the other end of the beam? Conduits/Relays have two terminals.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

And so two Anderson speeches?

why are you asking us what happens in EC? we dont work for bioware you know.

I asked whether it was safe to assume EC would finish Anderson's character arc. Someone put forward the idea of another Anderson speech or words from him to the same effect as was seen in the game. I thought that was strange

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...


Byne...

STOP COMPARING IT TO RED VERSUS BLUE.

Aside from the fact that Halo has as much to do with real military tactics, really the only fictional comparison we SHOULD be relating is "Ender's Game"

Losses are not material, hence people are expendable as long as we get enough people to the victory point.

The target is the only significant thing, therefore the enemy itself, if it can be avoided is unimportant.

And in general, if you were in the same position, what possible answer would you have? Fight Harbinger? Not an option, you'd waste valuable time and lose, hard, getting Hammer wiped out with nothing gained.

Only reason I'm comparing it to RvB is because I'm bored Arian. I pointed out the actual reason why the charge idea would be suicidal, its not like I'm saying 'we cant do this because RvB did it'.





Although one season of RvB ended with destroying all the AIs....

[Rosewind]

Isn't Byne referring to the defined black lines on his face not in the hologram but in person they all pixlated shadows like I said looks like a lighting issue.

[llbountyhunter]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

well technically the shuttle crash has the white light too.

I see the charge as the bridge between reality and full indoctrination (more symbolism?). during the charge there are elements of both reality and not, but when harbinger begins his full mental assult  on shepard (repressented by the laser) it become more dream-like.

kinda like dreaming- you dont go from stage 1 to 4 in one leap.



no commment? 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 02 mai 2012 - 08:26 .

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


No Arian, what I'm saying is when you actually see TIM himself and not as a hologram, his skin looks all weird.

I see a very distinct sneer, but no problems with his skin to my eyes. I can make that expression too.

The lines on his cheek just seem weird to me. They dont look like wrinkles or anything to me. They're even darker than the rest of his skin.

Plus like I said, his hologram doesnt show them.

[balance5050]

Rosewind wrote...

Isn't Byne referring to the defined black lines on his face not in the hologram but in person they all pixlated shadows like I said looks like a lighting issue.

Yeah, you're right sorry, I think Byne is reading to hard into that detail.

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

well technically the shuttle crash has the white light too.

I see the charge as the bridge between reality and full indoctrination (more symbolism?). during the charge there are elements of both, but when harbinger begins his full mental assult  on shepard (repressented by the laser) it become more dream-like.

kinda like dreaming- you dont go from stage 1 to 4 in one leap.



no commment? 

I don't think there is a white light after the shuttle crash.

[Unschuld]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


No Arian, what I'm saying is when you actually see TIM himself and not as a hologram, his skin looks all weird.

I see a very distinct sneer, but no problems with his skin to my eyes. I can make that expression too.

The lines on his cheek just seem weird to me. They dont look like wrinkles or anything to me. They're even darker than the rest of his skin.

Plus like I said, his hologram doesnt show them.

I'd say it's lighting+updated textures/normal maps (correct terminology?). 

[SS2Dante]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...


Well, about TIM's face, it's possible he was slowly looking more and more like that throughout the course of the game.

If you pay attention when talking to him on Mars, his hologram shows him as completely normal, but when the camera switches to his location, his skin looks kind of weird.

It's possible his hologram that you've been speaking with has just been hiding his gradual change over time.

It's also entirely possible that that's just the hologram.

True, it could just be a "coverup" hologram, and I'll have to go back and look again at some point. I figured his differing appearance (beginning with Mars) was due to updated textures and character models (like how my Shep looked almost completely different in the ME1-ME2-ME3 transition because of this). I didn't think it was a change because of his alterations.

... By which I had meant that it is entirely possible that it is merely the "grain" of the hologram (the horizontal bars) that we see several times.

No Arian, what I'm saying is when you actually see TIM himself and not as a hologram, his skin looks all weird.

I see a very distinct sneer, but no problems with his skin to my eyes. I can make that expression too.

He does look a bit prematurely aged. Can't tell if it's odd lighting or stress or the possible Reaper degredation.

[SS2Dante]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Byne...

STOP COMPARING IT TO RED VERSUS BLUE.

Aside from the fact that Halo has as much to do with real military tactics, really the only fictional comparison we SHOULD be relating is "Ender's Game"

Losses are not material, hence people are expendable as long as we get enough people to the victory point.

The target is the only significant thing, therefore the enemy itself, if it can be avoided is unimportant.

And in general, if you were in the same position, what possible answer would you have? Fight Harbinger? Not an option, you'd waste valuable time and lose, hard, getting Hammer wiped out with nothing gained.

Only reason I'm comparing it to RvB is because I'm bored Arian. I pointed out the actual reason why the charge idea would be suicidal, its not like I'm saying 'we cant do this because RvB did it'.





Although one season of RvB ended with destroying all the AIs....

The story progression of RvB is funny because once they realised they were making an actual serious story they had to desperately try and make it work with all the nutty stuff that came before

[llbountyhunter]

balance5050 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Charge has the white light, good enough reason for me, and the simple fact is, that renders far more than the charge as meaningless. There IS a clear divide betweendream sequence and the real world (there's no HUD in dream sequences for one)

That and in the end, the charge is still a far better plan than that one, simply because it's 

"We need to get to the beam ASAP. It is lightly guarded by one reaper, but the fact is, we can't kill him, or take the time to. What do we do? The only thing we can, run like hell and pray. We'll get someone to the beam, because he can't possibly hit all of us."

well technically the shuttle crash has the white light too.

I see the charge as the bridge between reality and full indoctrination (more symbolism?). during the charge there are elements of both, but when harbinger begins his full mental assult  on shepard (repressented by the laser) it become more dream-like.

kinda like dreaming- you dont go from stage 1 to 4 in one leap.



no commment? 

I don't think there is a white light after the shuttle crash.

I was talking about how the white light still technicaly happens (even though inside the hallucinion at this point.... (hey! you get multiple white lights in the geth consensus.))  

[byne]

*shrug* Ok well I guess no one else agrees with me on that, but it still bugs me.

Just kind of seems weird that every conversation we had with TIM in ME2, the camera was in TIM's room and Shep was the hologram, and the one time we have the camera in TIM's room (before Shepard actually goes there in person), TIM's face looks all weird, and from then on the conversation always has TIM as the hologram.

Sort of odd to switch it around unless they had some reason to do so.

[paxxton]

There is another scene besides ME3 ending in the series where TIM appears without his theme music playing in the background. When he tries to convince Shepard to spare the Collector base.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 mai 2012 - 08:48 .

[Rosewind]

lol never did understand how his image is being projected he doesn't stand on the pad or anything.

[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

I will just answer 4) very quickly, I'll do otherS a bit later. At the start of ME3, TIM is confident, he has Kai Leng on his side, one of the best assasins in the world, has a massive army, lots of time; at the end, it is just him and you. His fortunes have changed now, it has become more personal.

But in this scene he's about to WIN. He's standing at the control panel of the device he insists will allow him to control the Reapers (his stated goal throughout the game). And yet he never activates it, even though you're paralysed and can't stop him. 

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...



I was talking about how the white light still technicaly happens (even though inside the hallucinion at this point.... (hey! you get multiple white lights in the geth consensus.))  

You do, but you get a bright light to show you the start of the dream first. No such thing in the shuttle crash.

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...



I was talking about how the white light still technicaly happens (even though inside the hallucinion at this point.... (hey! you get multiple white lights in the geth consensus.))  

You do, but you get a bright light to show you the start of the dream first. No such thing in the shuttle crash.

no such light at the beginning of every real dream either 

[estebanus]

estebanus wrote...

I don't know if you already participated in it, but there's an official survey going on about Mass Effect 3 in the german community. Jessica Merizan even tweeted it, so I would appericiate it if you would take the time to fill out the survey!

Link: http://www.masseffec...ts--id-974.html

Bump because it's not a bad idea to participate

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

I was talking about how the white light still technicaly happens (even though inside the hallucinion at this point.... (hey! you get multiple white lights in the geth consensus.))  

Technically... you're right. It fits with the dreams and the geth concensus. Dreams don't start with the white light, which would be the same as the end if we assume that it begins at the shuttle crash.