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[Fledgey]

Ashii6 wrote...

Anyone noticed Shepard's eyes, when he chose " control ending " ?

Looks identical to TIM's eyes.

That's a great shot of it, but yes we have talked about the fact that the two endings other than destroy, your death causes you to look like a husk. It's very telling. Thanks for the screen shot.

[Auresta]

Fledgey wrote...

Ashii6 wrote...

Anyone noticed Shepard's eyes, when he chose " control ending " ?

Looks identical to TIM's eyes.

That's a great shot of it, but yes we have talked about the fact that the two endings other than destroy, your death causes you to look like a husk. It's very telling. Thanks for the screen shot.

Do the eyes change if you've been renegade?

[Ona Demonie]

Ashii6 wrote...

Anyone noticed Shepard's eyes, when he chose " control ending " ?

Looks identical to TIM's eyes.

What the ****!

[Falar]

From here: http://serenadesha.t...n-mass-effect-3

If you read the codex on indoctrination, it is as follows:

Reaper “indoctrination” is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, “reprogramming” the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper’s resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of “being watched” and hallucinations of “ghostly” presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim’s body to amplify its signals, manifesting as “alien” voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper’s “suggestions” can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or
weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

I was kind of “meh” on the indocrination theory in regards to the ending of ME3. But I have since changed my mind.

The original reason I didn’t trust it was because of the Prothean VI on Thessia. It freaks out about indoctrination when Kai Leng shows up. However, if you remember Vigil’s conversation with Shepard on Ilos back in ME1 (here’s a link to the part that has it: it’s between 5:15-5:30), he says the Protheans never fully understood indoctrination, which is why Saren was able to access their beacons. So, it stands to reason that a very lightly indoctrinated person such as Shepard wouldn’t “ding” the VI’s indoctrination protocol.

Shepard has been indoctrinated, albeit lightly. One of the major representations of this is the little kid in the beginning of the game. There’s no reason for him to be playing outside where Shepard could see him, inside an Alliance compound. Still acceptable, though weird. Then, you encounter him in a destroyed building. Again, weird, but he could be taking shelter there.

What’s more telling is his behavior. Any normal kid would be relieved to find an adult, and would be asking for help. Instead, he says, “You can’t help me.” This isn’t something a kid says. Not when their world is falling apart. They might say nothing, hide, but they’re not going to turn down help. Shepard turns, and when s/he looks back, the kid is gone. Magically.

But the most telling scene is the shuttle scene. Suddenly, this boy escaped a building that Anderson and Shepard barely made out alive (Shep almost fell, remember?) and is clambering up into a shuttle. He suddenly is okay with help? Okay, acceptable. But no one notices him. When my husband and I watched this, he said, “Someone would have helped him up.” We both agreed, but it was just odd. Taken in with all of this, though?

The boy was a hallucination — a way for  the Reapers to subtly control Shepard. Through him, they were saying all Shepard’s actions are for naught, that there’s nothing that can be done. It’s inevitable. Then they fill Shepard’s nights with dreams of death and the very last dream is her embracing that death, because it can’t be helped. Shepard can’t save anyone. Or so the Reapers want  Shepard to think.

So, yes, they’ve been indoctrinating and manipulating Shepard all along, and the ending scenes were the culmination of that mental battle. Looking forward to see where this goes from here.

Modifié par Falar, 12 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Ashii6]

Fledgey wrote...

Ashii6 wrote...

Anyone noticed Shepard's eyes, when he chose " control ending " ?

Looks identical to TIM's eyes.

That's a great shot of it, but yes we have talked about the fact that the two endings other than destroy, your death causes you to look like a husk. It's very telling. Thanks for the screen shot.

Then sorry for repeat. I'm trying catch up as fast as I can, but it's hard..

[Debi-Tage]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

How many damn times does it need to be said that the"endings" we got aren't actually the endings

I've learned over the last few days through this thread that very many things need to be reiterated ad nauseum as the newer people to the thread don't want to read through the 190 pages.

I think the idea is that these "endings" are the endings we have now as they stand...not negating what may come in the future putting faith in the indoc theory and everything being said on this board. The fact is that had i not come to this board or searched the net after being majorly p***ed off following my first playthrough and followed my gut (tossing all my copies of ME in the meat grinder and swearing off EA and Bioware games forever) then I never would have known about it and thought that was the way the game actually ended. That is, until a few months down the road someone mentions the "real" endings to me. But all the same - those are in fact the "endings" as they stand right this second - and people have a right to be a little irriated with it, IMHO.

[Illusive]

Elendstourist wrote...

A tree from the child dream on the destroyed earth? I dont think so...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a8kxhx.jpg

That tree looks exactly like the ones in the 3 dreams Shepard has. And I don't think I saw a tree in the middle of the path as Shepard was sprinting to the Conduit-thing (before getting lasered) ...

[AlphaJarmel]

I'm going to need confirmation from a developer before I believe this. This seems absolutely reaching and would imply much better and subtle writing which the series has never been good at.

Not to mention we wouldn't really have an ending at all.

[krystalevenstar]

I have been refreshing for like 20 minutes. Anyone know why the site was down?

Also, hilarity.

Modifié par krystalevenstar, 12 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[Pyewacket]

Kings19 wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

A tree from the child dream on the destroyed earth? I dont think so...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a8kxhx.jpg

That tree looks exactly like the ones in the 3 dreams Shepard has. And I don't think I saw a tree in the middle of the path as Shepard was sprinting to the Conduit-thing (before getting lasered) ...

There wasn't.  At least not that I saw.  Where in the world did that tree come from?

[MrAtomica]

Falar wrote...

I was kind of “meh” on the indocrination theory in regards to the ending of ME3. But I have since changed my mind.

The original reason I didn’t trust it was because of the Prothean VI on Thessia. It freaks out about indoctrination when Kai Leng shows up. However, if you remember Vigil’s conversation with Shepard on Ilos back in ME1 (here’s a link to the part that has it: it’s between 5:15-5:30), he says the Protheans never fully understood indoctrination, which is why Saren was able to access their beacons. So, it stands to reason that a very lightly indoctrinated person such as Shepard wouldn’t “ding” the VI’s indoctrination protocol.

Shepard has been indoctrinated, albeit lightly. One of the major representations of this is the little kid in the beginning of the game. There’s no reason for him to be playing outside where Shepard could see him, inside an Alliance compound. Still acceptable, though weird. Then, you encounter him in a destroyed building. Again, weird, but he could be taking shelter there.

What’s more telling is his behavior. Any normal kid would be relieved to find an adult, and would be asking for help. Instead, he says, “You can’t help me.” This isn’t something a kid says. Not when their world is falling apart. They might say nothing, hide, but they’re not going to turn down help. Shepard turns, and when s/he looks back, the kid is gone. Magically.

But the most telling scene is the shuttle scene. Suddenly, this boy escaped a building that Anderson and Shepard barely made out alive (Shep almost fell, remember?) and is clambering up into a shuttle. He suddenly is okay with help? Okay, acceptable. But no one notices him. When my husband and I watched this, he said, “Someone would have helped him up.” We both agreed, but it was just odd. Taken in with all of this, though?

The boy was a hallucination — a way for  the Reapers to subtly control Shepard. Through him, they were saying all Shepard’s actions are for naught, that there’s nothing that can be done. It’s inevitable. Then they fill Shepard’s nights with dreams of death and the very last dream is her embracing that death, because it can’t be helped. Shepard can’t save anyone. Or so the Reapers want  Shepard to think.

So, yes, they’ve been indoctrinating and manipulating Shepard all along, and the ending scenes were the culmination of that mental battle. Looking forward to see where this goes from here.

Gotta say that I agree. It feels like the "endings" we have at this point were never intended to be the real end - like there's something else coming to tie it all together.

[Elanor]

Falar wrote...
.....
So, yes, they’ve been indoctrinating and manipulating Shepard all along, and the ending scenes were the culmination of that mental battle. Looking forward to see where this goes from here.

That sounds good. When I'm thinking how awesome it would be if they did it from the beginning...
Seriously, whats wrong with you Bioware? In all game theres almost nothing about indocrination. This is important part of the Reapers invasion.

[Bananables]

Seeing that this thread is almost 200 pages long, my input might have been already mentioned, but here it goes anyway.

How did TIM get to the conduit and then into the Citadel? Wouldn't this further support the hallucination theory? Before the final battle with Kai Leng, Shepard has a conversation with TIM. We can probably assume that during this conversation, TIM is already on Earth, taking with him his most trusted Cerberus soldiers or whatever.

But how did he get to the conduit unscathed? It's unlikely that he took a Cerberus tank and moonwalked his way to the conduit, he would've been decimated by the Reaper forces within a 5 mile radius of the conduit. Also, when Shepard and the Alliance forces get within walking distance of the conduit, there were no Cerberus forces present; there would've been vehicles or soldiers surrounding the area, right?

Now, to save myself from embarrassment, if there is a perfectly normal explanation as to how TIM made it to the conduit, please let me know.

[Debi-Tage]

Falar wrote...

From here: http://serenadesha.t...n-mass-effect-3

If you read the codex on indoctrination, it is as follows:

Reaper “indoctrination” is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, “reprogramming” the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper’s resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of “being watched” and hallucinations of “ghostly” presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim’s body to amplify its signals, manifesting as “alien” voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper’s “suggestions” can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or
weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

I was kind of “meh” on the indocrination theory in regards to the ending of ME3. But I have since changed my mind.

The original reason I didn’t trust it was because of the Prothean VI on Thessia. It freaks out about indoctrination when Kai Leng shows up. However, if you remember Vigil’s conversation with Shepard on Ilos back in ME1 (here’s a link to the part that has it: it’s between 5:15-5:30), he says the Protheans never fully understood indoctrination, which is why Saren was able to access their beacons. So, it stands to reason that a very lightly indoctrinated person such as Shepard wouldn’t “ding” the VI’s indoctrination protocol.

Shepard has been indoctrinated, albeit lightly. One of the major representations of this is the little kid in the beginning of the game. There’s no reason for him to be playing outside where Shepard could see him, inside an Alliance compound. Still acceptable, though weird. Then, you encounter him in a destroyed building. Again, weird, but he could be taking shelter there.

What’s more telling is his behavior. Any normal kid would be relieved to find an adult, and would be asking for help. Instead, he says, “You can’t help me.” This isn’t something a kid says. Not when their world is falling apart. They might say nothing, hide, but they’re not going to turn down help. Shepard turns, and when s/he looks back, the kid is gone. Magically.

But the most telling scene is the shuttle scene. Suddenly, this boy escaped a building that Anderson and Shepard barely made out alive (Shep almost fell, remember?) and is clambering up into a shuttle. He suddenly is okay with help? Okay, acceptable. But no one notices him. When my husband and I watched this, he said, “Someone would have helped him up.” We both agreed, but it was just odd. Taken in with all of this, though?

The boy was a hallucination — a way for  the Reapers to subtly control Shepard. Through him, they were saying all Shepard’s actions are for naught, that there’s nothing that can be done. It’s inevitable. Then they fill Shepard’s nights with dreams of death and the very last dream is her embracing that death, because it can’t be helped. Shepard can’t save anyone. Or so the Reapers want  Shepard to think.

So, yes, they’ve been indoctrinating and manipulating Shepard all along, and the ending scenes were the culmination of that mental battle. Looking forward to see where this goes from here.

^ this.

And isnt it a little ironic that the brat is playing with a model ship of the Normandy the first time you see him on Earth and then later Vega starts complaining (on the Normandy) of buzzing sounds? I wish there was a renegade option where Shep can beat the little brat with a switch.

[Tamuril24]

Phase 2 of take back mass effect has begun, it would be great if we could get more support and people would email bioware. https://www.facebook...ngToMassEffect3

[IronSabbath88]

Tamuril24 wrote...

Phase 2 of take back mass effect has begun, it would be great if we could get more support and people would email bioware. https://www.facebook...ngToMassEffect3

Wrong thread, buddy.

[Tamuril24]

sorry

[DtheArtist327]

skyworkeralan wrote...

I'm just going to say that this thread gave me hope and strength in the franchise again...for any of you familiar with Japanese Anime, does it appear to you that this feels a lot like how Evangelion first ended? Their budget got really low at the end so they scraped the epic final battle and replaced it with a stream of conscience psych profile of Shiji Ikari, the main protagonist. You bet there was a **** storm after it aired but they made two movies right after to bring out the true ending of the series and saved their asses. And now it is regarded a classic in anime history partly because of that ending as "no one has ever tried to troll the audience like this".

My point is, if the hallucination theory is true (or bioware can manage to steer to that path), ME can effectively redeem itself and may go down the history as the most amazing game franchise of all time as no one in the industry has the balls to fool their fans into the main antagonist's scheme and make them think this is how it ends.

It does but hopefully this "soft" ending was planned and like it was mention here that the real endings are locked until Bioware feels everyone has had a decent chance to get to the indoc scene.

[BlackDragonBane]

Debating if I should repost what I said back a page... this thread is moving so fast a lot of things are getting buried a soon as they're posted.

[WvStolzing]

Debi-Tage wrote...

And isnt it a little ironic that the brat is playing with a model ship of the Normandy the first time you see him on Earth and then later Vega starts complaining (on the Normandy) of buzzing sounds?

It's not the Normandy, just an Alliance Fighter.

[holyshock18]

ageofadrian wrote...

I've been asleep for 40 pages have I missed any important updates.

Not really. Still fighting the cause

[LoveAsThouWilt]

DtheArtist327 wrote...


It does but hopefully this "soft" ending was planned and like it was mention here that the real endings are locked until Bioware feels everyone has had a decent chance to get to the indoc scene.

If this happens, and while its a big stretch (yet the Indoctrination Theories are not), .... It would make Bioware so much more brilliant than I have given them credit for. Once again - reserve judgment for the future lol