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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#4951
BlackDragonBane

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NoUserNameHere wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

Zaknaberrnon wrote...

Moar proof, this time from the official @masseffect twitter feed:

Robert Cooper ‏ @robertcooper45
...or to be more precise about my previous comment, I was disappointed in the LACK of impact my choices had on @masseffect 3's ending.
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@robertcooper45 "There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." Name that movie.
Ocultar conversación
9:46 pm - 12 mar 12 vía HootS

https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect


BTW movie quote is from 'The Last Unicorn'


Wait, what?!
So actually we'll get some closure and another ending?
Or does that mean the Shepard's won't be finished with ME3 as the initially said?


Seems more like a cop-out. 'Oh, but everything is continuing on even though you can't see it on screen. Closure is in your imagination!"


I hope that's not the case and it means more there is something up their sleeve they're holding until the opportune moment for them.

#4952
Sl4sh3r

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Hey guys...
Don't mean to go off topic BUT if anyone lost their forum sig pic go to...

http://social.biowar...916/849#9831310

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 12 mars 2012 - 09:19 .


#4953
lookingglassmind

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Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


I smell a troll.. but... DAMN

#4954
Abdul_777

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Not sure if it has been asked,but is it true some people has gotten the destruction ending with EDI stepping out of the normandy?

Also maybe i'm thinking too much into this but this whole "ending" seems like it is built from past memories.The collector ship body piles,the shadow broker engine room with the electricity,the whole saren scene and the synthetic-organic relationship you discussed with Javik,he was arguing the exact same thing the kid was basically.

Edit: oh and the tube you shoot in the "renegade ending" is similar to the ones you gotta shoot at the human reaper boss in 2.

Modifié par Abdul_777, 12 mars 2012 - 09:21 .


#4955
IronSabbath88

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Even without that post above me, all the evidence points to this theory as fact. At least if you ask me.

#4956
Soilworker77

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Miss Vader wrote...

Just wanted people to keep in mind- to help support this theory- that at the very end, the child talking to the stargazer asks for another Shep story and the stargazer responds with an 'ok one more story'!

One more story people! Shep isn't done yet


Yeah, now when you say it, though I have never accepted the thought that this is the end of Shepard.

#4957
BlackDragonBane

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Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


Unless we know who the person this leak comes from his and what department they work in, it's just a rumor that seems to be suspiciously spawned from this theory thread.

#4958
tuzem2

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Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


I would like to believe that but this you read the comments bellow it? :D
"Would sound more believable, but you write like you're ten years old. What next, your mother's cousin's aunt's nephew's sister in law works for Bioware and says there's going to be a Mass effect 4 within the next year?"
:D:D:D

#4959
Spectre-61

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It's obvious that BW will do some serious DLC work. And an ending DLC would be plausible because you CAN'T finish the game.
I mean after the "ending" you'll get a text that you are legend and then your are back on the normandy before you attack the Cerberus base.
And another thing: I started an new playthrough with an imported ME3 shep. And when I select my ME3 savegame it says that this save is UPON finishing, although I finished 2 times now
(2 differnent endings).
Bioware has to do something.

#4960
zoidberg241

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Okay, so I've not read all the posts in this topic because it would take me a fortnight and make me want to kill myself. But I've been turning this stuff over in my head for the last 3 days and have no one else to talk to about it.
I am open to the idea that the final scene was the Reaper Leader of some sort trying to indoctrinate Shepard, and by extension the gamer, that is just the kind of grand idea that a finale to this epic trilogy deserves. There are several bits I like in the game that lend themselves to this theory, but a few points I don't understand and hope someone can help me with or point me to a relevant discussion.

1) There's something weird about that kid from start to finish, no one else interacts with him throughout the entire game, the things he says to Shepard are things that would make someone lose hope in winning the war, like they're trying to break down his resolve. There's even a change in the ambient music/sound effects if you listen for it. The dream sequences with him in have the strange shadows and whispers, like the voices of other Reapers.

2) The Prothean VI detects an indoctrinated presence both times Shepard speaks to it, but is deliberately ambiguous about who that is. We're supposed to believe its Kai Leng or TIM but it could easily Shepard. 

3) The whole game is about Paragon vs. Renegade choices, if the last scene is in his mind then who better to play the angel/devil on your shoulder than TIM and Anderson, arguing and trying to kill each other to win your support. I can't work out how Anderson would even have got there if that sequence was real.

Now, one of my issues with it is that if it's all in your mind then how does an imaginary decision have any effect on the citadel/crucible weapon being fired in one of 3 ways. The idea I'm leaning towards is that when you choose Destroy and then see Shepard come to life on earth at the very end, that's because he's the only one to snap out of the indoctrination because he made the correct choice. But that would imply that he still needs to get to the beam and set the weapon off. The hallucination could have just been to show him what could happen if he chose either option, but neither has actually been made in the physical world by the I've the game ends. 

At first I thought Synthesis was the best ending, because it's harder to achieve than the others and breaks the cycle of Renegade/Paragon choices and AI/Organic war, but now I don't have a clue.

I think the most misleading and confusing part is how any of the team got back to the Normandy, why Jeff decided to outrun the blast in any of the scenarios when for all he knew it was just intended to harm the Reapers, and how on gods green earth they ended up crash landing on a random planet. Did he go through a relay? Was he trying to get somewhere specific? What are the odds of even flying within a million miles of another planet that is suitable to sustain life when you're crashing Ian spaceship? Astronomical, in the most appropriate sense of the word.

Another issue is that in a series of games about making your own choices, how could there even be a right choice (only one where Shep lives) and two wrong choices (being indoctrinated). But then they don't let you save after the final mission, so if they do come out and say 'you're supposed to choose Destroy in order to carry on the story' everyone can redo the final mission. I'm just not convinced that's what wil happen

So I guess Bioware were going for the kind of ending that leaves it up to the player to decide what to make of it, and I admire them for that, and if they'd got rid of the stuff with the Normandy in it that would have been fine (don't even get me started on the Stargazer thing), but I think we'd all appreciate an official comment on some of these points to help us make our minds up because there are a lot of disappointed people out there who can't cope with things that don't make sense, myself included.

Modifié par zoidberg241, 12 mars 2012 - 09:38 .


#4961
Elendstourist

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As I said, could still be a fake. After all, we are collecting material to prove the theory.

#4962
FugitiveMind

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lookingglassmind wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


I smell a troll.. but... DAMN



True, a troll that happens to say everything we've said here...

The most disturbing part to me is the "in about a month" part...

What, delaying the game for 3 months wasn't enough we need to be soul crushed into despair before being told there's hope but you have to wait AGAIN for it??

#4963
Rahabzu

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3 or M? You decide.

Haha

#4964
tuzem2

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variobunz wrote...

It's obvious that BW will do some serious DLC work. And an ending DLC would be plausible because you CAN'T finish the game.
I mean after the "ending" you'll get a text that you are legend and then your are back on the normandy before you attack the Cerberus base.
And another thing: I started an new playthrough with an imported ME3 shep. And when I select my ME3 savegame it says that this save is UPON finishing, although I finished 2 times now
(2 differnent endings).
Bioware has to do something.


That gives some real hope! :=)

#4965
xDarkspace

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Zaknaberrnon wrote...

Moar proof, this time from the official @masseffect twitter feed:

Robert Cooper ‏ @robertcooper45
...or to be more precise about my previous comment, I was disappointed in the LACK of impact my choices had on @masseffect 3's ending.
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@robertcooper45 "There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." Name that movie.
Ocultar conversación
9:46 pm - 12 mar 12 vía HootS

https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect


BTW movie quote is from 'The Last Unicorn'


What if they change there mind and there will be one more game with Shepard Mass Effect 4

2014

#4966
Vyrii

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Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


As much as I want this theory to be true someone just busting in to gamefaqs and delivering that bit of info is....
well... I don't want to look a gifted horse in the mouth, but it's just a little too good to be true.

#4967
AnthonyF27

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Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


Sounds exactly like what this thread has been saying.  I'd like to believe that this ending is what will happen, but I'll believe it when someone from BW finally speaks out.

Modifié par AnthonyF27, 12 mars 2012 - 09:23 .


#4968
H3xTech

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Recon911PDW wrote...

The answer is right in our faces. If you chose to destroy the Reapers and if you have enough war assets then it will show Shepard clearly back on Earth in London in the rubble right after the beam hit. In this case the whole theory about it being a hallucination/indoctrination is correct.

I see too many people forgetting about the scene where Shepard is lying in concrete rubble. It also shows that scene right after the Normandy crash landing scene. Shepard would be dead if that explosion actually happened up in space. As for the other choices, they are a test to see if Shepard will give into what the Reapers want. There is only one choice that is the right one and that is to destroy the Reapers like Shepard has been wanting to do all along so he can break out of this hallusination. To control them is what TIM wanted and to combine them with organics is what Saren wanted, think about it.

The only way for Shepard to wake up from this nightmare is to choose destroy, and thats the only way to get the scene where it shows him in the rubble still alive, and thats only if enough war assets were acquired.

That would actually make a hellalot sense.

#4969
Militarized

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FugitiveMind wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


I smell a troll.. but... DAMN



True, a troll that happens to say everything we've said here...

The most disturbing part to me is the "in about a month" part...

What, delaying the game for 3 months wasn't enough we need to be soul crushed into despair before being told there's hope but you have to wait AGAIN for it??


Hudon had said previously they weren't taking a break because "The DLC is just so awesome"... after getting the Ashes DLC I did not see what could possibly take SIXTH months.... 

do we have our answer now? 

#4970
lookingglassmind

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FugitiveMind wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Guys, look at this!

-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.gamefaqs....rds/995487-mass -effect-3/62208604

Text:

my cousins husband works for bioware and i got some info this morning on the ending.
after shep is hit with the red beam he is indoctrinated by harbinger and its a hallucination of how shep thinks it would pan out, thats why anderson is there with you and your crew is magically teleported to the normandy on a planet and they all are safe, you will also see in the endings where shep lives that it shows him in a pile of rubble on earth and then he takes a breath for split second, my cousins husband also told me there will be dlc to continue the story in about a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If that was real, we had the answer. Could be fake, still.


I smell a troll.. but... DAMN



True, a troll that happens to say everything we've said here...

The most disturbing part to me is the "in about a month" part...

What, delaying the game for 3 months wasn't enough we need to be soul crushed into despair before being told there's hope but you have to wait AGAIN for it??


You know what is interesting, though? The PAX conference & BioWare panel is in April...

#4971
Elendstourist

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I'd like to believe this all aswell. I didn't say I fully trust this source, as it could be fake. Again: I thought I post this as we are collecting material.

#4972
GBGriffin

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This is getting old fast.

I'm sorry for dashing people's hopes, but stop and *think* for a moment. Don't settle for anything less than a definitive, "official" statement from the BioWare team. This "inside source" crap has to stop, along with people latching on to BioWare's ambiguous answers which don't confirm anything and leave more questions than answers.

#4973
Bigdoser

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Please don't lump all renegades into wanting to control the reapers my renegade shep made it perfectly clear to TIM that she is going to send the reapers straight to hell and that was an intimidate choice with TIM ^_^.

#4974
tuzem2

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Elendstourist wrote...

I'd like to believe this all aswell. I didn't say I fully trust this source, as it could be fake. Again: I thought I post this as we are collecting material.


No one's blaming you. I just found the comment bellow this person's post really funny :D

#4975
krinst

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I'm in love with the 'fighting indoctrination' theory, especially if something like that was to be followed up with future content. This whole possibility has really helped my outlook on the conclusion.

As it is the ending is a whole lot of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, in my opinion.