57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

How can I argue with a guy that compares the Geth with "giant toasters".

Anyway, to answer your question: I understand the Quarians were scared, but I don't see that as reason to wipe out the Geth.

They refused to shut down when commanded. So they were forced off.

Epyon, please shut down now. If you dont I will be forced to kill you.

By your logic this is perfectly acceptable and you may not complain.

It should also be noted, that yeah, they refused to shut down, but they werent doing anything malicious. They just wanted to keep working and helping the quarians.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

In the future:

"THAT MAN'S EATING TOAST!"

"GUN HIM DOWN!! WE CAN'T TAKE ANY CHANCES!!"

"But I used a toaster "oven" not a Toast...."

*Punch to the gut*

How does one make toast smart guy?

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

@Subastris

Except this is the pro IDT forum and we have nowhere to discuss it on the bsn without getting flamed so that had made us defensive. Still, you are right that we deserve some blame. Also, never outright called you a troll. In fact, I acknowledged that you are trying to debate. Just pointing out you are not the voice of reason you seem to see yourself as, and that your constant position of IDT is impossible is getting old. Most of us are willing to concede the possibility of IDT being wrong. You however seem to refuse to entertain it even being conceivable that it's right. That's what has gotten old. It often (and i could be wrong, certainly) seems your intentions are to simply be contrarian and provocative.

The fact is, it's not a pro-IT forum just a lot of pro-ITers are here. I agree, I take back my accusation that you called me a troll, I just thought that was the implication. I realise that a lot of people here don't seem to accept extra-game evidence for one reason or another, so it is better to engage in-game evidence which is hard to refute

Pretty sure by forum he means thread. He mentions the rest of BSN later in the same sentence as being not very pro-IT.

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Kris_Rebel wrote...

I've got a shieeet

Can't do both?

WHAT THE FUUUU

Shut up. 

[balance5050]

DBL PST

Modifié par balance5050, 03 mai 2012 - 07:17 .

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Why would he want implants if it weren't for control? He wants to control the Reapers, but general indoctrination would also be very useful

But when Anderson gets shot, it is just Shepard's psyche breaking down?

He doesn't regain any blood, he loses consciousness partly because of his injuries before waking up again

The implants are to control Reaper forces. The only organic that would be "useful" to control is Shepard, but all he does is try to convince Shepard that he can control the reapers. Why would controlling organics be useful against reapers? Why didn't he study the Thorian then?

Yes.

He passed out from blood loss. I wouldn't try to refute that but you can if you really want to.

Don't put it past BW, they seemed to have forgetten the plot of ME1. Such as, why not use the Conduit on Ilos, a sure-fire way to get to the Citadel rather than barging through a ton of Reaper forces?

I think it is important to make the distinction that he is not personally saying, "Shepard, go control the Reapers", but rather is saying "they can be controlled"

Sigh, Bioware is lazy resonse huh?

It makes complete sense that they couldn't use the Ilos relay again because the place was on it's last legs anyway, the energy needed to power the conduit had all but been depleted, which is why the stasis pods failed and why Vigil was all glitchy.

TIM literally says "I need you to beleive."

"I need you to beleive."  - I see no other way to interpret that besides "I need you (Shepard) to beleive that I (TIM) can control them."

And then he doesn't even prove it.

It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

[EpyonX3]

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Kris_Rebel wrote...

I've got a shieeet

Can't do both?

WHAT THE FUUUU

Shut up. 

Oh Sry I just...

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Why would he want implants if it weren't for control? He wants to control the Reapers, but general indoctrination would also be very useful

But when Anderson gets shot, it is just Shepard's psyche breaking down?

He doesn't regain any blood, he loses consciousness partly because of his injuries before waking up again

The implants are to control Reaper forces. The only organic that would be "useful" to control is Shepard, but all he does is try to convince Shepard that he can control the reapers. Why would controlling organics be useful against reapers? Why didn't he study the Thorian then?

Yes.

He passed out from blood loss. I wouldn't try to refute that but you can if you really want to.

Don't put it past BW, they seemed to have forgetten the plot of ME1. Such as, why not use the Conduit on Ilos, a sure-fire way to get to the Citadel rather than barging through a ton of Reaper forces?

I think it is important to make the distinction that he is not personally saying, "Shepard, go control the Reapers", but rather is saying "they can be controlled"

Sigh, Bioware is lazy resonse huh?

It makes complete sense that they couldn't use the Ilos relay again because the place was on it's last legs anyway, the energy needed to power the conduit had all but been depleted, which is why the stasis pods failed and why Vigil was all glitchy.

TIM literally says "I need you to beleive."

"I need you to beleive."  - I see no other way to interpret that besides "I need you (Shepard) to beleive that I (TIM) can control them."

And then he doesn't even prove it.

It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

It's strongly implied the the conduit is a one time use thing, I think it does say it secifically in ME1 but I'm not sure.

I doubt anyone here has ever said "Bioware can't possibly be lazy."

Modifié par balance5050, 03 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[UrgedDuke]

EpyonX3 wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

doesn't make much sense

[marcelo_sdk]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

How can I argue with a guy that compares the Geth with "giant toasters".

Anyway, to answer your question: I understand the Quarians were scared, but I don't see that as reason to wipe out the Geth.

They refused to shut down when commanded. So they were forced off.

Epyon, please shut down now. If you dont I will be forced to kill you.

By your logic this is perfectly acceptable and you may not complain.

It should also be noted, that yeah, they refused to shut down, but they werent doing anything malicious. They just wanted to keep working and helping the quarians.

And a lot of Quarians supported the Geth. In fact, there's a lot of paralels we can use as example in our society.

[EpyonX3]

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

doesn't make much sense

Perhaps we're talking about two different things here.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Why would he want implants if it weren't for control? He wants to control the Reapers, but general indoctrination would also be very useful

But when Anderson gets shot, it is just Shepard's psyche breaking down?

He doesn't regain any blood, he loses consciousness partly because of his injuries before waking up again

The implants are to control Reaper forces. The only organic that would be "useful" to control is Shepard, but all he does is try to convince Shepard that he can control the reapers. Why would controlling organics be useful against reapers? Why didn't he study the Thorian then?

Yes.

He passed out from blood loss. I wouldn't try to refute that but you can if you really want to.

Don't put it past BW, they seemed to have forgetten the plot of ME1. Such as, why not use the Conduit on Ilos, a sure-fire way to get to the Citadel rather than barging through a ton of Reaper forces?

I think it is important to make the distinction that he is not personally saying, "Shepard, go control the Reapers", but rather is saying "they can be controlled"

Sigh, Bioware is lazy resonse huh?

It makes complete sense that they couldn't use the Ilos relay again because the place was on it's last legs anyway, the energy needed to power the conduit had all but been depleted, which is why the stasis pods failed and why Vigil was all glitchy.

TIM literally says "I need you to beleive."

"I need you to beleive."  - I see no other way to interpret that besides "I need you (Shepard) to beleive that I (TIM) can control them."

And then he doesn't even prove it.

It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

It's strongly implied the the conduit is a one time use thing, I think it does say it secifically in ME1 but I'm not sure.

I doubt anyone here has ever said "Bioware can't possibly be lazy."

But without evidence... I remember that it is a one-way system, but not that it is one-time only

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...


It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

First off: Bioware CAN be lazy, but using Bioware is lazy in every argument is just silly.

Second off: Do you not recall the end of ME1? When you were driving the Mako towards the conduit, and you had like 40 seconds before it deactivated? The conduit simply doesnt work anymore.

The council in ME2 also mentions that even Vigil shut down on Ilos and no longer worked when they sent research teams there.

The conduit shut down, and the council wouldnt have had any real incentive to try and find a way to reactivate it, because hell, even they arent stupid enough to want a direct route from the Terminus systems to the heart of the Presidium.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

In the future:

"THAT MAN'S EATING TOAST!"

"GUN HIM DOWN!! WE CAN'T TAKE ANY CHANCES!!"

"But I used a toaster "oven" not a Toast...."

*Punch to the gut*

How does one make toast smart guy?

I play it safe and just use a dry frying pan.

[llbountyhunter]

DJBare wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

I understand that, it also gives me pause for thought, but in my opinion Shepard never made it to the transport beam, everything that occurs after the laser is inside Shepards mind that's being influenced by the reapers, choose anything but destroy and his/her indoctrination is complete.

The dreams started with black, not white, which is why I think we're still at the Mako crash.

If you are speaking about the dream border, that is there throughout the fight in the streets in my play throughs, it's visible at all times.

no hes talking about the trasitions, when entering a dream for the first time, its "cut to black"

when moving to another layer in the geth concensus mission you get the "fade to white"

in the shuttle senario you get the "cut to black initaiting IT, then you get a "fade to white" marking the beggining of of another layer (harbingers assault?).

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


It's strongly implied the the conduit is a one time use thing, I think it does say it secifically in ME1 but I'm not sure.

I doubt anyone here has ever said "Bioware can't possibly be lazy."

But without evidence... I remember that it is a one-way system, but not that it is one-time only

If it were a one-use thing, it would have shut down when the Prothean scientists used it to go to the Citadel and alter the Keepers.

Saren AND Shepard both use it after that.

It was implied it was shutting down, not that it was a one-use thing

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

In the future:

"THAT MAN'S EATING TOAST!"

"GUN HIM DOWN!! WE CAN'T TAKE ANY CHANCES!!"

"But I used a toaster "oven" not a Toast...."

*Punch to the gut*

How does one make toast smart guy?

I play it safe and just use a dry frying pan.

OOohh... sneaky.

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

First off: Bioware CAN be lazy, but using Bioware is lazy in every argument is just silly.

Second off: Do you not recall the end of ME1? When you were driving the Mako towards the conduit, and you had like 40 seconds before it deactivated? The conduit simply doesnt work anymore.

The council in ME2 also mentions that even Vigil shut down on Ilos and no longer worked when they sent research teams there.

The conduit shut down, and the council wouldnt have had any real incentive to try and find a way to reactivate it, because hell, even they arent stupid enough to want a direct route from the Terminus systems to the heart of the Presidium.

THANK YOU! I knew this was explained.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

How can I argue with a guy that compares the Geth with "giant toasters".

Anyway, to answer your question: I understand the Quarians were scared, but I don't see that as reason to wipe out the Geth.

They refused to shut down when commanded. So they were forced off.

Epyon, please shut down now. If you dont I will be forced to kill you.

By your logic this is perfectly acceptable and you may not complain.

It should also be noted, that yeah, they refused to shut down, but they werent doing anything malicious. They just wanted to keep working and helping the quarians.

Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

I dont know why.

"Oh no! The robot I built to do all my work won't shut down, and just continues to do all my work! The horror!"

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

First off: Bioware CAN be lazy, but using Bioware is lazy in every argument is just silly.

Second off: Do you not recall the end of ME1? When you were driving the Mako towards the conduit, and you had like 40 seconds before it deactivated? The conduit simply doesnt work anymore.

The council in ME2 also mentions that even Vigil shut down on Ilos and no longer worked when they sent research teams there.

The conduit shut down, and the council wouldnt have had any real incentive to try and find a way to reactivate it, because hell, even they arent stupid enough to want a direct route from the Terminus systems to the heart of the Presidium.

THANK YOU! I knew this was explained.

I personally think bioware just ran out of time instead of being lazy. They were trying to make this game way bigger than time allowed.

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

First off: Bioware CAN be lazy, but using Bioware is lazy in every argument is just silly.

Second off: Do you not recall the end of ME1? When you were driving the Mako towards the conduit, and you had like 40 seconds before it deactivated? The conduit simply doesnt work anymore.

The council in ME2 also mentions that even Vigil shut down on Ilos and no longer worked when they sent research teams there.

The conduit shut down, and the council wouldnt have had any real incentive to try and find a way to reactivate it, because hell, even they arent stupid enough to want a direct route from the Terminus systems to the heart of the Presidium.

1) I agree
2) Is that deactivated forever?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

You see, I would be happy that my personal Geth was learning about life and learning morals from me. But then the Quarian government turns into a bunch of spineless wimps and goes and guns them all down, INCLUDING ME! because my personal helper robot was also my friend, and I protect my friends.

Modifié par balance5050, 03 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[DJBare]

Yup, ole Shep has gone off the deep end, seems he's the only one to see things