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[Boradam]

EpyonX3 wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

Would you mind taking some screenshots for those of us who can't do the same?

[NeoDobby]

SubAstris wrote...

It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

I think BW wanted to leave at least some information open for discussion/interpretation or for players to find the (intended) logical explanation on their own. I wouldn't want every tiny bit of explanation to be shoved into my face. I even think that if IT turns out to be true, there won't be an explanation to questions like:

- When exactly did the Indoctrination process start?

- Why were there only 1, 2, all 3 choices given in the dream?

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

I dont know why.

"Oh no! The robot I built to do all my work won't shut down, and just continues to do all my work! The horror!"

The fear is that it reprogrammed itself once to be somewhat defiant. What else is it recapable of reprogramming? One day it might decide to not want to do their chores. Or worse, it could decide to kill them. If they did they won't be able to shut them down.

[EpyonX3]

Boradam wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

Would you mind taking some screenshots for those of us who can't do the same?

Sure. It may take some time though.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

I dont know why.

"Oh no! The robot I built to do all my work won't shut down, and just continues to do all my work! The horror!"

The fear is that it reprogrammed itself once to be somewhat defiant. What else is it recapable of reprogramming? One day it might decide to not want to do their chores. Or worse, it could decide to kill them. If they did they won't be able to shut them down.

Once something gains sentience, one has to respect that being, ESPECIALLY if you created it.

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

I dont know why.

"Oh no! The robot I built to do all my work won't shut down, and just continues to do all my work! The horror!"

The fear is that it reprogrammed itself once to be somewhat defiant. What else is it recapable of reprogramming? One day it might decide to not want to do their chores. Or worse, it could decide to kill them. If they did they won't be able to shut them down.

the key word here is "might" and thats a very small might based on what weve seen in the mass effect series.

[blooregard]

Hey my birth...page?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

You see, I would be happy that my personal Geth was learning about life and learning morals from me. But then the Quarian government turns into a bunch of spineless wimps and goes and guns them all down, INCLUDING ME! because my personal helper robot was also my friend, and I protect my friends.

Understandable. It would concern me though. I wouldn't go all genocidal like the Quarians did, but It'd definetly approach the situation with caution.

[Boradam]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sure. It may take some time though.

Thanks, it's not that I don't believe you but I'd like to see it nonetheless since I have my game for a 360.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

The "need" seems to be an emphatic version of "want" here. TIM genuinely wants Shepard to believe in control as a viable option, as many powerful villains want their opponents to do

First off: Bioware CAN be lazy, but using Bioware is lazy in every argument is just silly.

Second off: Do you not recall the end of ME1? When you were driving the Mako towards the conduit, and you had like 40 seconds before it deactivated? The conduit simply doesnt work anymore.

The council in ME2 also mentions that even Vigil shut down on Ilos and no longer worked when they sent research teams there.

The conduit shut down, and the council wouldnt have had any real incentive to try and find a way to reactivate it, because hell, even they arent stupid enough to want a direct route from the Terminus systems to the heart of the Presidium.

1) I agree
2) Is that deactivated forever?

They could probably reactivate it after some time, but given that the current cycle doesnt actually understand how Mass Relays work, it'd take a while to figure out how to fix whatever caused it to shut down, plus, as I said, why would they want a Relay in the Terminus systems leading right to the base of the tower where the Council works?

Also, whether or not it could be reactivated, I really doubt the Reapers are stupid enough to leave the Conduit's exit point unguarded.

Hell, if I were them, I'd have destroyed it. They didnt know about it before, but since Sovereign apparently learned about it, one would figure the rest of the Reapers know about it too.

The Protheans used it to screw up this current cycle, it'd be logical to destroy it to make sure no one else uses it to screw up future cycles.

[maxloef]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Boradam wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...
how do we know that ending 001 is destroy?

Game files for the destroy object and file, the fact that it's the only ending where Shepard doesn't get disintergrated/indoctrinated.

Well, to be fair the second point there is speculation. 

Ending001 referes to the first part of the mission before getting to the citadel.

Ending002 is the citadel part including the decision chamber.

Ending003 is the planet that you're crew lands on.

??? how do you know that and what are you basing that on?

I took the files apart a few weeks ago. The ending files break down into sections which are labeled by their parts in the game.

Would you mind taking some screenshots for those of us who can't do the same?

Sure. It may take some time though.

i can actualy confirm that it is set out that way, same goes for Cat001 to 004 referring to the levels related to the catalyst.

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Of course I'm not saying what the quarians did was right. They let fear cloud their judgment. However, part of the Geth's programming was to properly respond to shut down commands. They rewrote that functionality enough so that they can ignore those commands without needing the quarians to do it for them.

That'll scare the crap out of me, honestly.

I dont know why.

"Oh no! The robot I built to do all my work won't shut down, and just continues to do all my work! The horror!"

The fear is that it reprogrammed itself once to be somewhat defiant. What else is it recapable of reprogramming? One day it might decide to not want to do their chores. Or worse, it could decide to kill them. If they did they won't be able to shut them down.

the key word here is "might" and thats a very small might based on what weve seen in the mass effect series.

I agree it is small, but a small might is enough to enstill the greatest fear in some. Unfortunately for the Quarians, that some had enough power to impose martial law.

[paxxton]

Wow! Only 7 more pages and we're done. Let's make random posts to achieve this goal faster.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 mai 2012 - 07:40 .

[EpyonX3]

Boradam wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sure. It may take some time though.

Thanks, it's not that I don't believe you but I'd like to see it nonetheless since I have my game for a 360.

Sure it's no biggie.

[Boradam]

paxxton wrote...

Wow! Only 7 more pages and we're done. Let's make random post to achieve this goal faster.

THE END IS NIGH! We need a Marauder Shields to save us from the multi-colored thread locks! 

[balance5050]

I.T. is so fun for me to debate! Thanks all!

[NeoDobby]

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Why would he want implants if it weren't for control? He wants to control the Reapers, but general indoctrination would also be very useful

But when Anderson gets shot, it is just Shepard's psyche breaking down?

He doesn't regain any blood, he loses consciousness partly because of his injuries before waking up again

1. The basic problem we have with TIM's implants is that this kind of control is never established in the game. Yes, there is the "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL"-possibility that Harbinger uses, but at this point, the control goes completely over to Harbinger. When TIM controls Shepard and Anderson, they can still say what they want and even try to fight against TIM's control of their movement. There are only a few people who have been "direct controlled" before, the collectors and Saren (after his death), who both have been implanted by the Reapers. I think there were some people in Arrival, but I haven't played that, so I don't know how much they have been implanted or just indoctrinated. Now, you could argue that TIM doesn't have complete control, because his implants are still experimental. But at least Anderson doesn't have any implants and is free of Indoctrination.

The other possibility, which supports IT, is that it is a fight in Shepard's mind (I won't go into too much detail here because I think you have read the basic concepts of IT. If you have questions, feel free to ask). Basically, the part of his mind that has been indoctrinated in the process of the game(s), is trying to seize control of the free part. Which I think is far more likely than the face value thing.

2. I can see where you'd have a problem with this: First Anderson's wound is directly transferred to Shepard. But why doesn't he die then when Anderson dies? Let me explain it the way I understand it: Anderson says: "It feels like years since I just sat down." (Don't have the exact words right now) - The free part of Shepards mind is letting its guard down because it thinks the fight is over (in truth, it is not over, but that's explained further in the IT-sources, too).
Now I'll try to explain why you need more EMS to survive to control ending if TIM managed to shoot Anderson before: The indoctrinated part basically gains more power, Shepard's own will is weakened (I think you even mentioned that yourself before). The EMS-rating translates into the mind-fight as Shepard's will and his danger to the reapers (if you managed to collect more assets, it shows that you are more strong-willed and dangerous as when you show up with a small army).

Some valid points, I have answered some of them in other posts as well if you care to look

I would, but this thread is moving too fast and I'd like to keep up. Though I have read or at least skimmed every post in the last couple of days I think, I don't remember everything, so I'm not sure which posts you mean. If you roughly remember where they were, just give me a link and I try to react, but actually it would be better if you replied directly to what I've said. We all don't like repeating ourselves, but some have been doing that since page 1

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

I.T. is so fun for me to debate! Thanks all!

Same here! I had never spend so much time on a forum or a thread before I found this one!

So, thank you, too!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 03 mai 2012 - 07:44 .

[llbountyhunter]

very special page/year were on here...

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

very special page/year were on here...

Why? (btw, this is the year my parents and I immigrated to Germany )

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 03 mai 2012 - 07:46 .

[Unschuld]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

That's my point. It's not about the Geth turning to the "good" side, it's about showing that synthetics will not necessarily, as the Catalyst says, turn agains their creators.

In fact, in the Quarian-Geth case, it's more like the creators turned against their creations.

If I had a 6 foot tall toaster that suddenly asked me one day if it had a soul, I'd be pretty freaked out too. Oh, and apparently thinking toasters are not only dangerous, but illegal.

How can I argue with a guy that compares the Geth with "giant toasters".

Anyway, to answer your question: I understand the Quarians were scared, but I don't see that as reason to wipe out the Geth.

Well, easy. They were seen as creations, like a robot or a car. Tools. So...

EpyonX3 wrote... 
They refused to shut down when commanded. So they were forced off.

This.

Of course the Geth have evolved differently now, and are closer to organic-like sentience, but at the time it was a purely understandable reaction.

[llbountyhunter]

MaximizedAction wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

very special page/year were on here...

Why? (btw, this is the year my parents and I moved to Germany )

year I was born..... lol.

[SS2Dante]

Epyon, did you see gunslingers post a while back? His friend found a very odd ending. Basically he played with default Shepard and had over 6000 EMS at the end of the game and got control and synthesis, but not destroy at the ending. Sooooo either his friend made a big mistake or was lying or something or we still haven't figured out what exactly goes into the ending choices.

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

very special page/year were on here...

Why? (btw, this is the year my parents and I moved to Germany )

year I was born..... lol.

Well, , then!

[UrgedDuke]

my birth page!