57139 réponses à ce sujet

[polor89]

MintyCool wrote...


The ultimate solution for indoc theory: www.youtube.com/watch

Get it?

Checkmate.

WOW cool video

[Kyzee]

Boradam wrote...

I... I failed... I COULDN'T GET TO 2000 IN TIME!

::hugs:: It's okay, I didn't either. Just enjoy the party!

[estebanus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Whoever is still discussing theory for the next 5 pages is just crazy.

Alos, the list is going to be updated of course.

There was a boy back on Earth, couldn't have been more than 6 or 7...

I watched him screwing Reapers...DEAD Reapers...

I had to join 'em. There's noting wrong with me is there?

DAMN ****.

[SubAstris]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

It is better than BW can't possibly be lazy response from some ITers...

But seriously, BW should have at least told us why the Conduit on Ilos wasn't at least considered, even if it was to be discarded later.

I think BW wanted to leave at least some information open for discussion/interpretation or for players to find the (intended) logical explanation on their own. I wouldn't want every tiny bit of explanation to be shoved into my face. I even think that if IT turns out to be true, there won't be an explanation to questions like:

- When exactly did the Indoctrination process start?

- Why were there only 1, 2, all 3 choices given in the dream?

1) I still think a lot needs to be known about how indoctrination actually works (which is one of the reasons I am reluctant to accept IT, we don't know that much about it, and if it was really BW's intention I don't think we would have a lot of these questions)

That's were we diverge: I think we know enough about indoctrination to understand that Shepard could be in the process of indoctrination and that there are various hints to that (like the oily shadows in the dreams, to mention just one). The ending was left this way with the goal of "lots of speculation from everyone", so there is no wonder there are multiple ways to interpret the ending. So there is the possibility that all the evidence that we IT guys are seeing are just red herrings or maybe they point to something entirely different we haven't come up with yet.

There will always be some questions that won't be answered, either because this is sci-fi and there is obviously some technoligy we don't have and thus cannot be explained with scientific knowledge we have. Some of it has to come down to suspension of disbelief, and I understand that the writers stop at a level that goes deep enough to make it believable. Other questions aren't answered to leave room for interpretation. As I said, I think there's enough info about indoctination to make our interpretation plausible. But if it isn't enough for you, I can live with that. Maybe we won't even have a definite answer to the question "Is IT true?" after the EC comes out. We'll just have to wait.

Another example: I think they never precisely told us who attacked first in the conflict of the Quarians and Geth. I'm ok to leave it at that and let everyone make up their mind about it.

SubAstris wrote...

2) Precisely, why have infinite. Of course, this comes down to game mechanics and resources, which some IT theorists, I am not accusing you directly, think are irrelevant

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You mean infinite endings? Yeah, of course there has to be some limit, but the question "Why were there only 1, 2, all 3 choices given in the dream?" was one of the examples I gave for what might not be answered. In this case, I meant that they won't explain which decisions led to a particular combination of ending options we are presented in the Citadel.

Game mechanics: yes, there are limits, I think the Final Hours App even says that they tried to implement a gameplay section where the player loses control of Shepard. Which is ok, they might have put that in the dialogue with Anderson and TIM.

Resources: I think Bioware asked for 6 months more time in the end and only got 3, so time is a factor to be considered, too. (I think Arian said that, so you'd have to ask him for a source)

I agree that those have an impact on how the game turns out in the end. We may never know what limits made the developers to change which plans. But I think that this shouldn't have an impact (or maybe no too big impact) to our interpretation. What counts in the end is the information about the world and the events in it that is canon, and by that I mean what is in the game or in the books and comics that were released alongside. There is even some ARG-content like the ANN-Website that can be considered.

I think what people are possibly forgetting about the "oily shadows" comment is that the Rachni sense things very differently to humans. They interpret sensory data in terms of music and images; from what I got from it it seems like they were talking about death rather than indoctrination.

About the Quarians and the Geth, the Geth Consensus mission makes it clear that the Quarians start their degradation of the Geth which led to them uprising. The Geth are essentially, not under Reaper control, a peaceful race and don't really want to hurt the Quarians. This is one of the reasons why what the Catalyst says doesn't seem to make sense because it goes against something like that in-game

I don't know the exact amount of time, although I know that the game was originally meant to be released Fall/Autumn 2011, and came out beginning of March. That's a quite long time to be delayed, in gaming terms, and you can bet EA was pushing very hard to get it released as fast as possible. I would be a bit weary about using a lot of information from outside game material, such as comics, because the fact is the vast majority of people who play ME have only played the games (me included). Doesn't mean other parts are wrong, but BW know they are making a game for those people primarily, and if they can't get the story without referring to a comic, then they have failed.

I think differently. You are not forced to read/play other media, but you are not forced to play the games too. So, like the games itself, the informations are important and were put under our dispposal, if you bought it or not, your problem.

Of course the main lore is in the trilogy, and you can understand the history in a crude way playing only the games. But the comics, the books, the DLCs, they all have important information to understand what we saw and what we'll possibly see.

I agree, I just don't think people should have to refer to outside material to understand the basics of the story and plot

[NoSpin]

IT'ers going 2000 pages strong. Whether we are wrong or right....in the end....we speculated the hell out of this thing.

[BatmanTurian]

stupid picture

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 mai 2012 - 10:16 .

[TheConstantOne]

HellishFiend wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Actually... yes we do.  It isn't proven yet (and maybe it never will be) but there are theories that suggest the universe is cyclical.  It never truly ends or begins.  It's a pretty mathematically intensive theory, where time develops imaginary number components.  In any case, if the Reapers are far more advanced than us, this theory could have been proven and they would know that the universe is cyclical, thus infinite.  

You just contradicted yourself. In order for what you said earlier to bear any weight, the universe MUST be infinite. You admit it isnt proven, therefore your logic is flawed. And like I said, there are MANY reasons why starbrat's logic is flawed, and the nature of a statistical probability not being the same as an inevitability is only one of those things. 

What if Organics were to develop a failsafe against Technological Singularity before Technological Singularity had a chance to occur? Thats yet another possibility that destroys starbrats logic. 

I cant stress enough:

Because starbrat is presenting his conclusion as an irrefutable factual conclusion, it is WRONG.

I didn't contradict myself.  WE haven't proven it.  But there is a real world theory that exists (and is a sound explanation) that could be proven.  I didn't want to mislead you into thinking it was established as real world science fact.  However, the Reapers COULD have proven it as they are far more advanced, and if so their logic (on the point of things happening or not happening) would not be flawed. That is what I argued, that the Reapers proved the theory.  If I argued that things could only happen in ME based on things that we have proven in reality, the ME universe wouldn't exist.  Take dark energy: it's effects are well documented but there is far from agreement as to what it is in the scientific community.

I hope you realize that I'm arguing out of respect and love of debate.  Not to anatagonize you 

[HellishFiend]

NoSpin wrote...

IT'ers going 2000 pages strong. Whether we are wrong or right....in the end....we speculated the hell out of this thing.

Yes, hopefully IT doesnt pull a "You did good son, I'm proud of you... *dies*" when the EC comes out. 

[estebanus]

SNIP

Modifié par estebanus, 03 mai 2012 - 10:18 .

[estebanus]

HellishFiend wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

IT'ers going 2000 pages strong. Whether we are wrong or right....in the end....we speculated the hell out of this thing.

Yes, hopefully IT doesnt pull a "You did good son, I'm proud of you... *dies*" when the EC comes out. 

No matter how this ends, we can still be proud of our accomplishments.

[Boradam]

We'll bang, okay? +5 Youtube Points

[lex0r11]

Okay, this is nuts. REFORMAT NOW!

[EpyonX3]

I don't know how but....We'll B*ng ok?

[BatmanTurian]

edit that estebanus. nobody wants to see that.

[NeoDobby]

Boradam wrote...

I... I failed... I COULDN'T GET TO 2000 IN TIME!

Does it really matter? You missed your birthyear, so you aren't really born, are you? 

[Boradam]

NeoDobby wrote...

Boradam wrote...

I... I failed... I COULDN'T GET TO 2000 IN TIME!

Does it really matter? You missed your birthyear, so you aren't really born, are you? 

oh ****

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

Still no literal guys want to explain to me what the importance of London is? Or at least how humanity knew it was important before the Citadel was moved there?

There doesn't seem to be any intrinsic point to it before the Citadel moves there, just happens to be an important place on Earth. I wonder you think about it

[HellishFiend]

TheConstantOne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Actually... yes we do.  It isn't proven yet (and maybe it never will be) but there are theories that suggest the universe is cyclical.  It never truly ends or begins.  It's a pretty mathematically intensive theory, where time develops imaginary number components.  In any case, if the Reapers are far more advanced than us, this theory could have been proven and they would know that the universe is cyclical, thus infinite.  

You just contradicted yourself. In order for what you said earlier to bear any weight, the universe MUST be infinite. You admit it isnt proven, therefore your logic is flawed. And like I said, there are MANY reasons why starbrat's logic is flawed, and the nature of a statistical probability not being the same as an inevitability is only one of those things. 

What if Organics were to develop a failsafe against Technological Singularity before Technological Singularity had a chance to occur? Thats yet another possibility that destroys starbrats logic. 

I cant stress enough:

Because starbrat is presenting his conclusion as an irrefutable factual conclusion, it is WRONG.

I didn't contradict myself.  WE haven't proven it.  But there is a real world theory that exists (and is a sound explanation) that could be proven.  I didn't want to mislead you into thinking it was established as real world science fact.  However, the Reapers COULD have proven it as they are far more advanced, and if so their logic (on the point of things happening or not happening) would not be flawed. That is what I argued, that the Reapers proved the theory.  If I argued that things could only happen in ME based on things that we have proven in reality, the ME universe wouldn't exist.  Take dark energy: it's effects are well documented but there is far from agreement as to what it is in the scientific community.

I hope you realize that I'm arguing out of respect and love of debate.  Not to anatagonize you 

Regardless... Starbrat words his conclusion as factual conclusion, which he cant. Not with the premises he cites, not with any known possible premises at all. Delusional, bleeding-out Shepard in one word put it the way the Starbrat should have:

"Maybe...."

[EpyonX3]

estebanus wrote...

I salute everyone here who has contributed to this thread!

*salutes while sheading a manly tear*

I'm sure manly tears are being shed all around the world.

[Kyzee]

 Oh, full credit to lex0r11 for the Tequila Se'lai pic I posted, btw. Off to nap before midnight showing of Avengers.

As usual, I ask for no flame wars while I'm gone. And here's to another 2000 pages until the DLC comes out! 

Hugs, all!<3

[NeoDobby]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Whoever is still discussing theory for the next 5 pages is just crazy.

Alos, the list is going to be updated of course.

There was a boy back on Earth, couldn't have been more than 6 or 7...

I watched him screwing Reapers...DEAD Reapers...

I had to join 'em. There's noting wrong with me is there?

Haley Joel Osment: "I ... screw ... dead reapers..."

[estebanus]

Well, It's almost midnight here, so I'll be signing off.

Goodbye for now!

[EpyonX3]

NeoDobby wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Whoever is still discussing theory for the next 5 pages is just crazy.

Alos, the list is going to be updated of course.

There was a boy back on Earth, couldn't have been more than 6 or 7...

I watched him screwing Reapers...DEAD Reapers...

I had to join 'em. There's noting wrong with me is there?

Haley Joel Osment: "I ... screw ... dead reapers..."

Damn Wh*re!

[HellishFiend]

estebanus wrote...

Well, It's almost midnight here, so I'll be signing off.

Goodbye for now!

Make sure you dont collapse on a space magical evilator.