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[Xavendithas]

The Savage Nymph wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Anderson and Shepard simultaneously hallucinating Coates seems crazy to me.

Is it? Sounds like Indoctrination to me. Two Cerberus researchers on the Derelict Reaper started confusing each other's memories. It's not a big leap to imagine two of the main leaders being indoctrinated by the Reapers. If Coates is an advising hallucination for Anderson, then the Reapers guide and control him and then if they link that hallucination with Shepard's mind, then Shepard will not notice anything is up and will be guided to his doom by the Coates ghost. No, sounds like typical psychological warfare by Reapers.

But doesn't Coates also give orders to the other troops? I'd be interested if this were true, but I distinctly remember him telling the other squad what to do.

From quickly skimming through walkthrough vids, the only time he interacts with anyone other than Shepard and Anderson and receives a verbal acknowledgment is over the com channels during the push to the beam.

[Domanese]

CRAP THE MAYAN PROPHECY IS UPON US!!!

But seriously the cube map is supposed to be some kind of last hint that bioware left in during the infamous final choice? You guys are sure this is actually in the game itself right?

[spotlessvoid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Anderson and Shepard simultaneously hallucinating Coates seems crazy to me.

Is it? Sounds like Indoctrination to me. Two Cerberus researchers on the Derelict Reaper started confusing each other's memories. It's not a big leap to imagine two of the main leaders being indoctrinated by the Reapers. If Coates is an advising hallucination for Anderson, then the Reapers guide and control him and then if they link that hallucination with Shepard's mind, then Shepard will not notice anything is up and will be guided to his doom by the Coates ghost. No, sounds like typical psychological warfare by Reapers.

I see your point. Just seems crazy, question everything! Is space hamster still real at least? Don't lie to me

[tschamp]

spotlessvoid wrote...

byne wrote...

My internet died and I missed page 2000?!

Comcast, I am disappoint.

I have nothing good to say about Comcast.
Fortunately, Lex0r ushered in the new millennium in style during your absence

ummmm....yeah....I work for Comcast...so...hi?

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I missed page 2k? Damn, well grats all, here's to many ups and downs but staying on track for mostly 2000+ pages *cheers*

@Hellishfiend
Talked to my friend about his ending again, going to work on getting screenshots over the weekend after raising his readiness %

@Arian Dynas
Still working on the video, more on this later.

Awesome! Could be a tremendous breakthrough. 

[TheConstantOne]

On the note of my idea about the Crucible being an indocrination device that can be used to pacify anything... what would that make of the 3 end game choices? If the Crucible's function is to pacify life...could the 3 choices be:

Destroy: You aren't destroying the Reapers or synthetics. You are pacifying the synthetic components of Shepard's body

Control: You don't really control the Reapers. Instead you seize control of the synthetic pieces of Shepard's body. My rationale for this: Reaper Bieber says "You will control us but you will lose what you are." This is an indoc moment so he isn't being truthful. He is instead speaking in metaphor.

Synthesis: Shepard unites his will with both his organic and synthetic components and thus emerges from the Crucible indoctrination in his entirety. He does not fuse all synthetic and organic life as RB states but rather those respective components of his own life.

This is extreme speculation but, if the Crucible was trying to indoctrinate/pacify Shepard and couldn't...these choices would make sense. RB is still lying through his teeth but this idea does cast the endings in an entirely new light.

That's all I've got for now. Critics feel free to jump in

[BatmanTurian]

Domanese wrote...

CRAP THE MAYAN PROPHECY IS UPON US!!!

But seriously the cube map is supposed to be some kind of last hint that bioware left in during the infamous final choice? You guys are sure this is actually in the game itself right?

Yes, several people here have fired up their game to check and have verified it.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Domanese wrote...

CRAP THE MAYAN PROPHECY IS UPON US!!!

But seriously the cube map is supposed to be some kind of last hint that bioware left in during the infamous final choice? You guys are sure this is actually in the game itself right?

Yes, several people here have fired up their game to check and have verified it.

Wait, what did I miss?

[paxxton]

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 mai 2012 - 02:51 .

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Anderson and Shepard simultaneously hallucinating Coates seems crazy to me.

Is it? Sounds like Indoctrination to me. Two Cerberus researchers on the Derelict Reaper started confusing each other's memories. It's not a big leap to imagine two of the main leaders being indoctrinated by the Reapers. If Coates is an advising hallucination for Anderson, then the Reapers guide and control him and then if they link that hallucination with Shepard's mind, then Shepard will not notice anything is up and will be guided to his doom by the Coates ghost. No, sounds like typical psychological warfare by Reapers.

I see your point. Just seems crazy, question everything! Is space hamster still real at least? Don't lie to me

Space hamster is a funny gag, but I think he's real. But seriously, we should start looking closer at this Coates character. Speculation for everyone translates to question everything to me. If it seems fishy, we should check it out. At best we have new interesting evidence. At worst, we've eliminated something else from the equation that doesn't fit. Questioning everything only makes the theory stronger. Well, to a point.

[lex0r11]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

byne wrote...

My internet died and I missed page 2000?!

Comcast, I am disappoint.

I have nothing good to say about Comcast.
Fortunately, Lex0r ushered in the new millennium in style during your absence

I'm starting to think lex0r might be a wizard of some sort. He got first post on page 1000 AND 2000.

It's Emperor_Ike's fault.

I am honour-bou... ah, nevermind.

Modifié par lex0r11, 04 mai 2012 - 02:52 .

[Domanese]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Domanese wrote...

CRAP THE MAYAN PROPHECY IS UPON US!!!

But seriously the cube map is supposed to be some kind of last hint that bioware left in during the infamous final choice? You guys are sure this is actually in the game itself right?

Yes, several people here have fired up their game to check and have verified it.

Then I'll admit that this is one of the bigger hints in the game. A subtle hint but massive. Stuff like this is in my view much more stronger then any twitter post would give. People seem to find new stuff every time and that is amazing.

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 mai 2012 - 02:55 .

[spotlessvoid]

tschamp wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

byne wrote...

My internet died and I missed page 2000?!

Comcast, I am disappoint.

I have nothing good to say about Comcast.
Fortunately, Lex0r ushered in the new millennium in style during your absence

ummmm....yeah....I work for Comcast...so...hi?

Hi, I didn't mea....
Hold music starts playing

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Domanese wrote...

CRAP THE MAYAN PROPHECY IS UPON US!!!

But seriously the cube map is supposed to be some kind of last hint that bioware left in during the infamous final choice? You guys are sure this is actually in the game itself right?

Yes, several people here have fired up their game to check and have verified it.

Wait, what did I miss?

just the tree cube map thing

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalist) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack.

That gave me an idea. Maybe synthetics (like EDI) will fight the Reapers when organics can't. Reapers can't indoctrinate synthetics.

[spotlessvoid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalist) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack.

That gave me an idea. Maybe synthetics (like EDI) will fight the Reapers when organics can't. Reapers can't indoctrinate synthetics.

Ah but Reapers are part synthetic. they can release a sophisticated virus, like they did against the Geth Heretics. Even synthetics aren't immune.

[byne]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

You could say the exact same thing about Synthesis though. Its clearly what godchild wants. Why didnt he just build a crucible and use it to achieve Synthesis?

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

Maybe that's also kind of the point. The crucible could be the galaxy building its own mousetrap for the Reapers that it will spring on itself. We just don't know.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

You could say the exact same thing about Synthesis though. Its clearly what godchild wants. Why didnt he just build a crucible and use it to achieve Synthesis?

Well, Synthesis is technically what a Reaper already is. So the Reapers have been forcing Synthesis for a long time already. With the other cycles, they wouldn't need something like a crucible (if we are to take the endings at face value)

[Auralius Carolus]

BatmanTurian wrote...
Ah but Reapers are part synthetic. they can release a sophisticated virus, like they did against the Geth Heretics. Even synthetics aren't immune.

Saxton Hale is our only hope now!

[spotlessvoid]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

You could say the exact same thing about Synthesis though. Its clearly what godchild wants. Why didnt he just build a crucible and use it to achieve Synthesis?

Why not indeed! That was one of the first arguments I made against starchilds logic, back in my old literalist days.

[BatmanTurian]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
Ah but Reapers are part synthetic. they can release a sophisticated virus, like they did against the Geth Heretics. Even synthetics aren't immune.

Saxton Hale is our only hope now!

Hmm.. I think I missed the joke. Although the 64 pages of gorilla stabbing is funny.

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

You could say the exact same thing about Synthesis though. Its clearly what godchild wants. Why didnt he just build a crucible and use it to achieve Synthesis?

Well, Synthesis is technically what a Reaper already is. So the Reapers have been forcing Synthesis for a long time already. With the other cycles, they wouldn't need something like a crucible (if we are to take the endings at face value)

If we take the ending at face value, synthesis achieves in seconds what takes the reapers centuries. Theres no reason for them not to work towards synthesis as an alternative to harvesting.

As machines, the Reapers should be all about efficiency, not about being the biggest jerks possible and slowly terrorizing the entire galaxy for a few centuries every 50k years.

Synthesis would allow them to come in once, and in one pop render the cycles obsolete.

The biggest problem for that is that as EDI says, Reapers are devoted to nothing but self-preservation, and bringing an end to the cycles brings an end to new Reapers.

Unless godchild has an ulterior motive, him being in favor of synthesis makes no damned sense.