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[balance5050]

blooregard wrote...

I'm thinking if this leak is legit and the "phoenix" adept and vanguard are legit then this would confirm a great deal of what was said in that "truth" DLC (free MP add-on, free ending add-on ("clarification") and Prothean MP characters.

"The Truth" always seemed like the most likely leak to me, but that's probably just because it was supposed to confirm I.T.. 

[Unschuld]

blooregard wrote...

I'm thinking if this leak is legit and the "phoenix" adept and vanguard are legit then this would confirm a great deal of what was said in that "truth" DLC (free MP add-on, free ending add-on ("clarification") and Prothean MP characters.

I'm not sure yet how I'd feel about additional Protheans as MP characters, unless they can come up with a good explanation as to why they're there. I AM however crossing my fingers that since Quarian Infiltrator/Engineer was mentioned in the text, it might mean male options for those classes. I like my current Quarian engineer, but come on... my hips can't support that suit...

[TheConstantOne]

I was gone for a while.  But I'm caught up on the discussion now and am ready to comment again...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy is plausible but doesn't make a lot of sense because no one can win with an enemy able to easily mess with minds.

That's kind of the point. It's their strongest weapon, turning Organics on each other and also on themselves, making them do what they think is of their own free will, but is actually beneficial for the Reapers. People underestimate and understate indoctrination (especially the literalists) but indoctrination is stronger than any cannon, missle, gun, biotic, or electronic attack. It's practically Sun Tzu's Art of War personified. The best way to win a war is not to fight it. By indoctrinating the enemy, they aren't fighting you. War's won, more Reapers born.

A terrifying prospect to say the least, but if they had that technology, wouldn't they have already used it by building their own crucible?

Maybe that's also kind of the point. The crucible could be the galaxy building its own mousetrap for the Reapers that it will spring on itself. We just don't know.

@paxxton

Batman has this one covered: Messing with minds has always been the Reapers' weapon of choice.  Their brute force weapons are impressive enough but the abilitiy to turn your enemies on each other...just imagine how many Revans you could unleash

@spotlessvoid

Very true.  I was considering this myself.  Perhaps its for one simple reason: they can't.  They need an organic to operate the device. 

And my above comment has given me a great idea.  I think it fits in with what we've seen exceptionally well:

Think back to ME 2: the Reapers wanted humans to become a Reaper because there was something about our DNA.  This something was apparently not present in any other species in the galaxy and no one in the Prothean's era had these traits either.

ME 1: The Citadel was the first Prothean holding taken by the Reapers

ME 3: Vendetta said the Protheans were trying to build the Crucible but wait a second ****they knew the Citadel was the Catalyst****  The Citadel had already been lost, yet Javik and Vendetta claim that their scientists were trying to build the Crucible.  

Perhaps the Protheans failed to take back the Citadel and thus never were able to activate the device.  However, I'm thinking that ***the Protheans' genetic variance was not sufficient to fully take advantage of the Crucible****

This could be way the designs of the Crucible are made easy to understand for following generations: the Reapers want to not only improve the potential potency of their weapon but ensure that, just as with the mass relays and the Citadel, that their technology is always accessible.

(This folloing statement has no substantial evidence to back it up, just a hyptohesis based on my above thoughts) It's possible that human's genetic variance may give the Crucible the ability to indoctrinate life everywhere.  If that happens, every cycle would become very easy to harvest: they could forcifully advance species to their peak, mold a species into the image they want, and then harvest them without a fight.  

This confirms for me that Control is the worst ending: Shepard doesn't control the Reapers actions.  Rather, s/he becomes the activation key for their weapon.  The war ends...because no one wants to fight the Reapers anymore.  

Have fun with that text wall everybody 

[blooregard]

Unschuld wrote...

blooregard wrote...

I'm thinking if this leak is legit and the "phoenix" adept and vanguard are legit then this would confirm a great deal of what was said in that "truth" DLC (free MP add-on, free ending add-on ("clarification") and Prothean MP characters.

I'm not sure yet how I'd feel about additional Protheans as MP characters, unless they can come up with a good explanation as to why they're there. I AM however crossing my fingers that since Quarian Infiltrator/Engineer was mentioned in the text, it might mean male options for those classes. I like my current Quarian engineer, but come on... my hips can't support that suit...

Well to be fair they've already done something that pisses me off and added new MP maps WITHOUT adding corrisponding SP missions so it seems like they're slowly trying to drift away from campaign/multiplayer continuity...This could only mean that their future DLC will  (obviously) add more EMS and eventually make it to where they didn't lie about "multiplayer not being required".

[Destructorlio]

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

[balance5050]

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

The more links we have between indoctrination and dreams the better. I support this post.

[blooregard]

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

+1 good sir


I think those are the only ones outside the dreams Shepard has in ME3


The dock worker on Edin Prime mentions Sovereign making a noise that "bored right into your head" 

Then there's that Asari that kills herself after murdering the high ranking Asari (I can't remember her name)

I think the indoctrinated Salarians on Virmire may say something that matches whats going on with shep.

[spotlessvoid]

There certainly seems to be a lot more to things than meets the eye

[CARL_DF90]

That's what makes a good theory.

[DirtyPhoenix]

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

[Hihoshi101]

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

Javik clones! lol:wizard:

[Hihoshi101]

But for real the whole rebellion thing is a strange project name...

[Salient Archer]

MintyCool wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Yeah! To be a massive hypocrite is the worst! That's be almost as bad as claiming you hate evangelicals and going out of your way to evangelize about religion being evil...oh right...

So you're saying a minority shouldn't defend themselves when they witness ignorance being trumped by knowledge?

How laughable...

You're kind of like these kids: www.youtube.com/watch

Close-mindedness...very Christian-like indeed.

Then again sharing a paragraph of logic won't change your mind after a lifetime of indoctrination....

Oh and hypocrite you say....

http://i.imgur.com/hCZMV.jpgp


Does it sting to meet someone who is superior to you in every possible facet you can think of?


1 and 3 Americans are now non-religious...

Your God fearing ways have little effect on our generation.






I know...

I'm quite the impressive Mint.

From my limited exposure to your way of thinking MintyCool I've ascertained two things:

1) You stick to your opinions and contemplate them to the fullest depth of your mental capacity.

2) Your opinions have the metaphoric depth of an infants wading pool.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 04 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[spotlessvoid]

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

They can just say more life pods were found

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 04 mai 2012 - 05:28 .

[ResultsWillVary]

Salient Archer wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Yeah! To be a massive hypocrite is the worst! That's be almost as bad as claiming you hate evangelicals and going out of your way to evangelize about religion being evil...oh right...

So you're saying a minority shouldn't defend themselves when they witness ignorance being trumped by knowledge?

How laughable...

You're kind of like these kids: www.youtube.com/watch

Close-mindedness...very Christian-like indeed.

Then again sharing a paragraph of logic won't change your mind after a lifetime of indoctrination....

Oh and hypocrite you say....

http://i.imgur.com/hCZMV.jpgp


Does it sting to meet someone who is superior to you in every possible facet you can think of?


1 and 3 Americans are now non-religious...

Your God fearing ways have little effect on our generation.






I know...

I'm quite the impressive Mint.

From my limited exposure to your way of thinking MintyCool I've ascertained two things:

1) You stick to your opinions and contemplate them to the fullest depth of your mental capacity.

2) Your opinions have the metaphoric depth of an infants wading pool.

3) An infant's wading pool that is mainly urine.

[blooregard]

We currently have the following instances where Shepard has been exposed to Reaper tech or was more then likely within range of a Reaper indoctrination field

ME1:
1) Time spent in Saren's base on Virmire (clearly in range of indoctrination) estimtimated time: half hour
2) Time spent near Sovereign (on the citadel you go right under him. Estimated time: 15 minutes
3) Fighting Saren who had Reaper implants and then became some freaky frog husk. Estimated time: 10 minutes
5) The various dragon's teeth all over the place (which may or may not cause indoctrination but Garrus mentions "machine cultists" which could be indoctrinated persons) Estimated time: a few hours in total
6) Time spent very very close to Sovereign's wreckage (questionable if the indoctrination field was still active) Estimated time: an hour or two/hard to tell

ME2:
1) Being rebuilt with (possible) Reaper implants. Estimated time: 2 years
2) More husks and dragons teeth. Estimated time: a few hours
3) the indoctrination device in one of the N7 missions. Estimated time: few minutes
4) On the derelict Reaper. Estimated time: 45 minutes
5) Object rho. Estimated time: 2 days 23 hours and 55 minutes.
6) Human-Reaper larva. Estimated time: 15-20 minutes
7) collector technology (questionable). Estimated tme: a few hours total
8) Reaper IFF. Estimated time: on going untl the end
9) EDI's Reaper parts. Estimated time: on going until the end

ME3:
1) Reaper IFF (said to still be on the Normandy). Estimated time: on going
2) EDI's Reaper parts again. Estimated time: ongoing
3) Reaper tech in a few N7 missions. Estimated time: 10-20 minutes tops
4) Reaper tech in the Cerberus soldier's implants. Estimated  time: a few hours total
5) Reaper on tuchanka (you were running around its legs more then likely in range of its indoctrination field). Estimated time: 10-15 minutes
6) Reaper on Rannoch (same as one on Tuchanka except you talk to this one). Estimated time: 10-15 minutes
7) Human-Reaper larva remains on Chronos Station. Estimated time: a few minutes

NOTE: Those times are subject to change.


Current (best) pieces of evidence supporting the IT:
1) The kid on Earth (may have been real before but is seen running into a house before it gets blown up and is perfectly fine in the ventilation)
2) Nobody notices the child in any instance except Shepard (nobody helps him onto the shuttle and Anderson doesn't say anything about who Shepard is talking too
3) Reaper growl heard when Anderson gets shep's attention away from the kid
4) Increasingly weird dreams where you see the "oily shadows" and hear whispers from the nearly incomprehensible murmurs to the squad mates
5) TIM's post Thessia change of heart ("I'm not looking for your approval" to "I need you to believe"
6) The weird growls when you and Anderson confront TIM
7) The oily black borders in that same scene
8) Waking up after the destroy ending in what appears to be human rubble


Little "inconsistencies" that support IT:
1) Anderson not being scratched on the Citadel
2) Nobody noticing Anderson or Shepard making their way to the beam after being hit by the laser
3) Anderson following you up when you say nobody
4) Dream shrubs after the laser hits you
5) Piles of dead bodies after the beam hits you
6) Hackett contacting you over a (supposedly) broken radio after he was informed everyone was dead while on the Citadel
7) The starchild's distase for destroy
8) EDI surviving the destroy ending

interesting things from the game files:
1) In the file for Gilligan's planet the plants when you first see it are called Dream_Foilage_something_something
2) Cubemap showing the reflection of trees (could be lazy/forgetful developers IMO)


I hope this keeps everyone up to speed...I'll try and quote this every so often to keep up with the thread and let me know if I missed anything.


NOTE: This is all from my memory I've played all 3 games and have all the DLC I don't own/haven't read any of the books or comics so if there is something from any of those you want to add let me know.

Modifié par blooregard, 04 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[Salient Archer]

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Salient Archer wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.

Hm, that nightmare he describes is the same as Arrival's "out of time" game over alternate ending. If we assume that ending is Shepard's perspective, then that's defintiely a mark of indoctrination on Shepards mind BUT only if you played through Arrival.

[Salient Archer]

I found these quotes from Arrival interesting also:

“Guard: When it’s silent, when there’s no one else around, I can hear it. Whispers in the back of my mind, I can’t tell what they’re saying. I spoke to Doctor Kenson about it and she seemed to understand. What the hell is going on?”

“Dr. Kenson: The longer we’re here, the more I’m convinced the Project must be stopped. We simply don’t know enough about what the Reapers want. It’s foolish to assume that the Reapers mean doom for the galaxy. Legends say they’ve come through before, and yet life continues doesn’t it?”

“Dr. Kenson: The Project is almost complete. I thought I’d feel a sense of accomplishment but instead… I feel dread. I can’t help but think we are doing something terrible.”

Not to mention:

“Research Log: Shepard has been sedated constantly for two days now. We’ve had to increase each dosage. It seemed like Shepard was waking up a moment ago. But that could be a glitch in the system. No glitch. The sedatives aren’t working!”

So I know it's already been discussed before, but Shep spent two days in the same vicinity as an active and sentient Reaper Artifact and also surrounded by a full crew of indoctrinated individuals and we're meant to believe he walked away without being indoctrinated?

[balance5050]

Salient Archer wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.

"the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust" - 

Sounds like the vision you see if you fail. 
http://www.youtube.c...tgUk_AEC0#t=61s

[Arian Dynas]

TheConstantOne wrote...

I was gone for a while.  But I'm caught up on the discussion now and am ready to comment again...

*snip*

Have fun with that text wall everybody 

P'fah! You call that a wall of text? I can do better than that in my sleep!

Be right back, gonna go take a nap...

Unschuld wrote...

blooregard wrote...

I'm thinking if this leak is legit and the "phoenix" adept and vanguard are legit then this would confirm a great deal of what was said in that "truth" DLC (free MP add-on, free ending add-on ("clarification") and Prothean MP characters.

I'm not sure yet how I'd feel about additional Protheans as MP characters, unless they can come up with a good explanation as to why they're there. I AM however crossing my fingers that since Quarian Infiltrator/Engineer was mentioned in the text, it might mean male options for those classes. I like my current Quarian engineer, but come on... my hips can't support that suit...

 

Protheans are very achiveable. It would require a pretty big single player DLC, perhaps multiple missions, a fight with Collectors and a Prothean planet with intact stasis archives, but it's easily done. And to be honest, I'd kinda love to see it.

If you guys behave, I might even write a script for it

balance5050 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

I'm thinking if this leak is legit and the "phoenix" adept and vanguard are legit then this would confirm a great deal of what was said in that "truth" DLC (free MP add-on, free ending add-on ("clarification") and Prothean MP characters.

"The Truth" always seemed like the most likely leak to me, but that's probably just because it was supposed to confirm I.T.. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

The truth seemed like bull**** to me because of the fact that the multiplayer leak happened on Facebook the day before, and the ****** who supposedly leaked "The Truth" didn't even bother to remove the stuff from facebook, and just aded bull**** text seen nowhere in the picture to it.

Salient Archer wrote...
*snip*
From my limited exposure to your way of thinking MintyCool I've ascertained two things: 

1) You stick to your opinions and contemplate them to the fullest depth of your mental capacity.

2) Your opinions have the metaphoric depth of an infants wading pool.

K'hoo! Ho ho! Very well done, very well done. I tip my hat my friend.

Though, perhaps a wading pool is being a bit generous. He's a puddle if nothing else.

[Salient Archer]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.

Hm, that nightmare he describes is the same as Arrival's "out of time" game over alternate ending. If we assume that ending is Shepard's perspective, then that's defintiely a mark of indoctrination on Shepards mind BUT only if you played through Arrival.

Although I've never played a Save without the Arrival DLC in it, I'm assuming that someone else destroys the Alpha Relay if you don't play it?

[Arian Dynas]

Salient Archer wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?

From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.

Hm, that nightmare he describes is the same as Arrival's "out of time" game over alternate ending. If we assume that ending is Shepard's perspective, then that's defintiely a mark of indoctrination on Shepards mind BUT only if you played through Arrival.

Although I've never played a Save without the Arrival DLC in it, I'm assuming that someone else destroys the Alpha Relay if you don't play it?

None of the alternate explanations (they send in a squad of marines, despite explicitly saying you shouldn't bring a squad of men) make any sense for the n00b stuff, so in the end, Arrival should be assumed to be part, with a sort of strange un logic filling in for the n00bs. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

@Salient Archer
Yes, if your Shepard doesn't do the Arrival mission, Hackett sends in a team of Alliance Commandos. They all die but succeed in launching the asteroid.