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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#50401
Arian Dynas

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Salient Archer
Yes, if your Shepard doesn't do the Arrival mission, Hackett sends in a team of Alliance Commandos. They all die but succeed in launching the asteroid.


So yeah, basically the default Shepard is a douche who refused to help out both Hackett and Liara, got a bunch of people killed, didn't bother trying to achive the loyalty of anyone in his squad, and cowardly refused to save the Citadel Council.

Yeah Default ME3 Shepard sucks.

#50402
blooregard

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Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Salient Archer
Yes, if your Shepard doesn't do the Arrival mission, Hackett sends in a team of Alliance Commandos. They all die but succeed in launching the asteroid.


So yeah, basically the default Shepard is a douche who refused to help out both Hackett and Liara, got a bunch of people killed, didn't bother trying to achive the loyalty of anyone in his squad, and cowardly refused to save the Citadel Council.

Yeah Default ME3 Shepard sucks.




Well appearence wise I guess default shep isn't so bad but when everything else in involved...default shep should have been given the chair a while ago.

#50403
balance5050

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Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?

Edit: found it.

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=1002s 

Modifié par balance5050, 04 mai 2012 - 05:57 .


#50404
blooregard

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balance5050 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?



He says that? I thought he talking about synthesis and saying some BS about how "synthetics are already part of your every day life can you picture it without them" or something like that.

#50405
balance5050

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blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?



He says that? I thought he talking about synthesis and saying some BS about how "synthetics are already part of your every day life can you picture it without them" or something like that.


Found it:

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=1002s 

#50406
gunslinger_ruiz

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Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Salient Archer
Yes, if your Shepard doesn't do the Arrival mission, Hackett sends in a team of Alliance Commandos. They all die but succeed in launching the asteroid.


So yeah, basically the default Shepard is a douche who refused to help out both Hackett and Liara, got a bunch of people killed, didn't bother trying to achive the loyalty of anyone in his squad, and cowardly refused to save the Citadel Council.

Yeah Default ME3 Shepard sucks.


Maybe he just never got the message :). Or with Shadow Broker, Cerberus didn't send him the data.

#50407
gunslinger_ruiz

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balance5050 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?



He says that? I thought he talking about synthesis and saying some BS about how "synthetics are already part of your every day life can you picture it without them" or something like that.


Found it:

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=1002s 


Huh, he didn't say that for mine, maybe its with the non-secret ending Destroy option?

#50408
Salient Archer

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

From The Arrival: “Kenson’s acting strange lately. Like she doesn’t care about the Project anymore. And I know I’m not the only one having those dreams. The Reapers are coming she says. But I’m not sure if I’m hearing fear or hope in her voice.”

http://masseffect.wi...val_(assignment)

From ME2: “Chandana said the ship was dead. We trusted him. He was right. But even a dead god can dream. A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone but it still dreams. He knows now. He's tuned in on our dreams. If I close my eyes I can feel him. I can feel every one of us.”

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF

Are there any other dream/indoctrination links in the game?


From The Arrival: "I woke up this morning in a cold sweat. The nightmare was back, the one with the enormous starship crawling through the Citadel and all my friends turning to dust. Even now I can see it in my mind. Why won’t this stop?”

-Possibly from the same scientist in your first quote.


Hm, that nightmare he describes is the same as Arrival's "out of time" game over alternate ending. If we assume that ending is Shepard's perspective, then that's defintiely a mark of indoctrination on Shepards mind BUT only if you played through Arrival.


Although I've never played a Save without the Arrival DLC in it, I'm assuming that someone else destroys the Alpha Relay if you don't play it?


None of the alternate explanations (they send in a squad of marines, despite explicitly saying you shouldn't bring a squad of men) make any sense for the n00b stuff, so in the end, Arrival should be assumed to be part, with a sort of strange un logic filling in for the n00bs. 


That's kind of what I expected. Is he even under house arrest in that case? and if not, what is he even doing in vancouver? Checking out the old set locations for the x-files?

Modifié par Salient Archer, 04 mai 2012 - 06:05 .


#50409
DirtyPhoenix

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spotlessvoid wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

They can just say more life pods were found


Coming to think of it, the Salarians could clone kakliosaurs from a fossilized skull, they can't clone Protheans from a living specimen?

#50410
blooregard

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balance5050 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?



He says that? I thought he talking about synthesis and saying some BS about how "synthetics are already part of your every day life can you picture it without them" or something like that.


Found it:

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=1002s 




Wow:mellow: I didn't remember that one sounds like he really doesn't want you to pick destroy...He also seems to have some kind of sinister pause when Shepard asks "But the Reapers will obey me?" before he says yes.

#50411
gunslinger_ruiz

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Salient Archer wrote...

***snip***


None of the alternate explanations (they send in a squad of marines, despite explicitly saying you shouldn't bring a squad of men) make any sense for the n00b stuff, so in the end, Arrival should be assumed to be part, with a sort of strange un logic filling in for the n00bs. 


That's kind of what I expected. Is he even under house arrest in that case? and if not, what is he even doing in vancouver? Checking out the old set locations for the x-files?


Probably under house arrest for working with Cerberus in general, regardless of what he did.

Edit: those quotes were kinda screwy.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 04 mai 2012 - 06:05 .


#50412
Destructorlio

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I know there is a google doc where people try to summarize all of the evidence for IT, but it seems scattershot and out of date (doesn't include the cubemap, etc). Is there a central location for all IT knowledge? With 2000+ pages to wade through, God love this thread, it can seem cumbersome. Blooregard's post was good because it was sort of a summary for the latest information (although again does not mentioned the cubemap/reflections, which is pretty strong in-game evidence). Is there any value in maintaining a summary along these lines?

#50413
DirtyPhoenix

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[quote]Salient Archer wrote...

***snip***

[/quote]

None of the alternate explanations (they send in a squad of marines, despite explicitly saying you shouldn't bring a squad of men) make any sense for the n00b stuff, so in the end, Arrival should be assumed to be part, with a sort of strange un logic filling in for the n00bs. 

[/quote]

That's kind of what I expected. Is he even under house arrest in that case? and if not, what is he even doing in vancouver? Checking out the old set locations for the x-files?
[/quote]

I started a new game and found out that he is under house arrest for his involvements with cerberus.

#50414
gunslinger_ruiz

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pirate1802 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

They can just say more life pods were found


Coming to think of it, the Salarians could clone kakliosaurs from a fossilized skull, they can't clone Protheans from a living specimen?


Kakliosaur DNA is very malleable (easy to manipulate). Prothean DNA consists of a quad-strand dna structure (I don't know that means exactly but it sounds complicated) that is probably very hard to clone let alone manipulate.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 04 mai 2012 - 06:07 .


#50415
balance5050

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

They can just say more life pods were found


Coming to think of it, the Salarians could clone kakliosaurs from a fossilized skull, they can't clone Protheans from a living specimen?


Kakliosaur DNA is very malleable (easy to manipulate). Prothean DNA consists of a quad-dna strand (I don't know that means exactly but it sounds complicated) that is probably very hard to clone let alone manipulate.


Wow, well I think humans have dual strand DNA, so that means that Prothean DNA is atleast twice as complex as our own.

#50416
blooregard

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pirate1802 wrote...

Coming to think of it, the Salarians could clone kakliosaurs from a fossilized skull, they can't clone Protheans from a living specimen?


Javik would toss them out the air lock while informing them of their eye ball licking ancestors.

#50417
Destructorlio

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blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the ending where the catalyst says "even most of the technology you rely on will be destroyed"?



He says that? I thought he talking about synthesis and saying some BS about how "synthetics are already part of your every day life can you picture it without them" or something like that.


Found it:

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=1002s 




Wow:mellow: I didn't remember that one sounds like he really doesn't want you to pick destroy...He also seems to have some kind of sinister pause when Shepard asks "But the Reapers will obey me?" before he says yes.


I definitely thought it was hinky the first time he said that. He was definitely trying to point me away frm Destroy. So **** him.

Also, notice how the little kid smirks like a jerk if you choose control or synthesis- with destroy option he just vanishes.

#50418
Salient Archer

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@gunslinger_ruiz @pirate1802

Damn, That kind of sucks, because if Arrival was considered canonical regardless of owning or playing the DLC than the Indoctrination Theory would be irrefutable.

#50419
gunslinger_ruiz

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Salient Archer wrote...

@gunslinger_ruiz @pirate1802

Damn, That kind of sucks, because if Arrival was considered canonical regardless of owning or playing the DLC than the Indoctrination Theory would be irrefutable.


There are still plenty of places in the trilogy for Shepard to get a mark of indoctrination, Arrival just makes it somewhat more obvious I think.

#50420
blooregard

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Salient Archer wrote...

@gunslinger_ruiz @pirate1802

Damn, That kind of sucks, because if Arrival was considered canonical regardless of owning or playing the DLC than the Indoctrination Theory would be irrefutable.



Click the link in my sig you'll see there's alot of instances where Shepard has the chance to become indoctrinated. Arrival is just icing on the pile of icing on the cake.



EDIT: clicked wrong thing either scroll down the page some or click thishttp://social.biowar...3/2016#11856640

Modifié par blooregard, 04 mai 2012 - 06:18 .


#50421
Arian Dynas

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blooregard wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Salient Archer
Yes, if your Shepard doesn't do the Arrival mission, Hackett sends in a team of Alliance Commandos. They all die but succeed in launching the asteroid.


So yeah, basically the default Shepard is a douche who refused to help out both Hackett and Liara, got a bunch of people killed, didn't bother trying to achive the loyalty of anyone in his squad, and cowardly refused to save the Citadel Council.

Yeah Default ME3 Shepard sucks.




Well appearence wise I guess default shep isn't so bad but when everything else in involved...default shep should have been given the chair a while ago.


Oh no, I mean I LOVE Canon Shepard, the badass who saved the council, defeated Saren, managed to ave the Rachni queen, saved the Feros colony, killed the Human Reaper, halted the Arrival, and helped Liara become the Shadow Broker. I like HIM, I don't like this loser the n00bs got saddled with for ME3.

#50422
gunslinger_ruiz

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Icing on Top of icing on a cake? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of icing...and delicious.

#50423
DirtyPhoenix

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The Phoenix class can be a Prothean, Javik rose "from ashes" afterall.

They can just say more life pods were found


Coming to think of it, the Salarians could clone kakliosaurs from a fossilized skull, they can't clone Protheans from a living specimen?


Kakliosaur DNA is very malleable (easy to manipulate). Prothean DNA consists of a quad-strand dna structure (I don't know that means exactly but it sounds complicated) that is probably very hard to clone let alone manipulate.


Makes sense, otherwise it'd be too easy to clone any species out of extinction.

#50424
blooregard

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Icing on Top of icing on a cake? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of icing...and delicious.




You're questioning a guy about rediculous amounts of *insert sweet thing here* when I like quadruple shot my hot chocolate with more chocolate.

#50425
gunslinger_ruiz

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blooregard wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Icing on Top of icing on a cake? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of icing...and delicious.




You're questioning a guy about rediculous amounts of *insert sweet thing here* when I like quadruple shot my hot chocolate with more chocolate.


You're making my  teeth hurt. Well now I'm hungry, later guys!