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[Salient Archer]

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]Destructorlio wrote...



The eyes: If you choose the Control or Synthesis options in the final sequence, your eyes turn bright blue and your skin flakes away to reveal a black, husk-like corruption underneath. In Mass Effect 1 the villain was Saren, who wanted organic and biological life to join together (synthesis). Saren was indoctrinated and had bright blue eyes as a consequence. In Mass Effect 2 the villain was The Illusive Man, who wanted to control the Reapers (control). The Illusive Man was indoctrinated and had the same bright blue eyes. These seem to me clear indicators that choosing control or synthesis indicated 'giving in' to indoctrination.
[/quote]

Or another possibility could be that in order for the machine to work, you DO need reaper tech implanted in your body, othewise Sheaprd would either disintegrate when he chooses Synthesys or being fried when chosing control, so the reaper tech, invades Shepard's body, and disassemble it piece by piece to make it "fit" the magic stuff.
[/quote]

It should be noted that the pattern of Shepard’s eyes actually becomes identical to those of the illusive man. (An inner circle, an outer ring, and two orbs on the bottom left and right sides)

[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The wound to Shepard's side: When Shepard shoots Andersen, she shoots him in the lower left flank. Shortly after this, Shepard inspects a wound on her own left flank- she puts a hand to the wound, then brings it away and looks confused by the blood on her fingers. This seems to me a clear indicator that something is surreal or not right about the scenario.


You can have Anderson shot in the head and Shepard then shoots TIM if you do not pick either parago nor renegade... so why Shepard does also not get shot in the head when that happens? Why only the stomach thing applies?
[/quote]
I could be clutching at straws here, but could the difference be that TIM is the one who shoots Anderson in the head opposed to Shepard shooting him in the side, revealing the difference in the reflection of the event and hence the symbolism of his side bleading out? Also, The death of Anderson at the hands of TIM raises the EMS limit another 1000 points to unlock the Shepard lives scene.

[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The voice of the Star Child: When talking to the catalyst entity, there are three voices- the child's voice, then male Shepard in the right ear and the female Shepard in the left ear. This is an intentional clue that Shepard is literally 'talking to him/herself'- a subtle indicator that s/he is hallucinating. As the starchild encourages Shepard NOT to choose destroy, it also smiles if you choose control or synthesis.
[/quote]
[quote]
It makes no sense in the male shep universe that a femshep voice exists, and viceversa, so this thing either makes no sense like a few other things durign the ending, or it is done to sound more eerie.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I agree with you here, I too believe that this is done more so for impact and style rather than substance.

EDIT: To be honest, I'm living off the fumes of no sleep right about now and Gunslinger answers this much better (find his post bellow)

Modifié par Salient Archer, 04 mai 2012 - 10:56 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

A thing that I observed in my last playthrough: If you choose synthesis or control; in the jungle planet scene there is a green/blue haze along the bottom edge of the screen. If you choose destroy there is that haze but hardly noticeable while the control/synthesis haze is clearly noticeable. Might be nothing, but something to chew over

[polor89]

BleedingUranium wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Looking over all the evidence again, thinking about the Breath scene (205 views of my brightened video), and I cannot stop asking: what will Bioware do next? What are they going to do with the Mass Effect Universe? What are they going to do with Shepard? They obviously have something planned with the Breath scene added regardless of whether or not Indoctrination Theory is true. Does Shepard stumble back to his or her feet, Carnfiex in hand, blasting any Husks in sight. Or is the war truly over after Destroy? Do Shepard's squadmate find the still breathing body and nurse it back to health? Is the Universe full of Reapers, not just the Milky Way, that have been running the cycle like clockwork creating millions upon millions of Reapers in the process and killing more civilizations that I can count? Will they come back to Earth, and will we be able to stop them?

I can say without a doubt I'll be waiting patiently, though not without struggle, until Bioware releases "What's Next" for our Shepard. I just hope it happens soon... I know a lot of us are struggling to wait. Keep hope, the day will come when we find out exactly what happens, why things happen, and what happens next. Hold the line.

Prequel most likely. Maybe about the Rachni Wars? We do know Sovereign was behind that. Or maybe about some cycle we've never heard of. Or maybe the very first civilization and how the Reapers came to be. Any of those would be pretty cool

Actually in the final hours casey husdon has stated that probably the next ME games will take place chronoligically before this trilogy.about the questions that 
gunslinger_ruiz asked  i hope the extended dlc will answer all this to us

[gunslinger_ruiz]

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]Destructorlio wrote...



The eyes: If you choose the Control or Synthesis options in the final sequence, your eyes turn bright blue and your skin flakes away to reveal a black, husk-like corruption underneath. In Mass Effect 1 the villain was Saren, who wanted organic and biological life to join together (synthesis). Saren was indoctrinated and had bright blue eyes as a consequence. In Mass Effect 2 the villain was The Illusive Man, who wanted to control the Reapers (control). The Illusive Man was indoctrinated and had the same bright blue eyes. These seem to me clear indicators that choosing control or synthesis indicated 'giving in' to indoctrination.
[/quote]

Or another possibility could be that in order for the machine to work, you DO need reaper tech implanted in your body, othewise Sheaprd would either disintegrate when he chooses Synthesys or being fried when chosing control, so the reaper tech, invades Shepard's body, and disassemble it piece by piece to make it "fit" the magic stuff.
[/quote]

Technology we do not understand subverting Shepard's body with Reaper tech is a possibility. I like the way you think. However, The Illusive Man gained his eyes by being "grazed" by an indoctrination device (shown in Dark Horse comic, google it, good stuff), so it's not entirely impossible that Shepard gains these eyes from "touching" Reaper tech with his/her mind, and becoming indoctrination him/herself.

[quote]
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The wound to Shepard's side: When Shepard shoots Andersen, she shoots him in the lower left flank. Shortly after this, Shepard inspects a wound on her own left flank- she puts a hand to the wound, then brings it away and looks confused by the blood on her fingers. This seems to me a clear indicator that something is surreal or not right about the scenario.
[/quote]

You can have Anderson shot in the head and Shepard then shoots TIM if you do not pick either parago nor renegade... so why Shepard does also not get shot in the head when that happens? Why only the stomach thing applies?
[/quote]

Shepard doesn't nurse the wound directly with a hand until after he sits back, long after Anderson was shot, and he doesn't pass out  (or die) infront of the console until sometime after Anderson dies if you saved him. I beleive, if Indoctrination Theory is true, Anderson represents a large part of Shepards willpower but not all of it. He also does not represent Shepards will to live, so wounding him would wound Shepards willpower, and killing outright would reduce Shepards willpower significantly. If Anderson dies, you have even less than the three choices and so far as I know you can't get Shepard's Breath. The Destroy ending you get (if you get it at all) could vaporize Earth and potentially most of the galaxy and you do not see your squadmates exit the Normandy. If your only options are Control or Synthesis, I see that as not having the will to Destroy the Reapers only give in to them.

[quote]
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The voice of the Star Child: When talking to the catalyst entity, there are three voices- the child's voice, then male Shepard in the right ear and the female Shepard in the left ear. This is an intentional clue that Shepard is literally 'talking to him/herself'- a subtle indicator that s/he is hallucinating. As the starchild encourages Shepard NOT to choose destroy, it also smiles if you choose control or synthesis.
[/quote]


It makes no sense in the male shep universe that a femshep voice exists, and viceversa, so this thing either makes no sense like a few other things durign the ending, or it is done to sound more eerie.

[/quote]
[/quote]

I partially agree, it is improbable for male shep or femshep to know the others voice, so the voice they hear is partly their own, partly the childs, and a strangers. I believe it's mostly done to sound eerie, but I believe it could have be done to make Shepard believe his or her own voice. It's the same reason the Catalyst chose to appear as someone Shepard feels guilt over and not as something unfamiliar. It's also possible the Catalyst wanted you to better understand it, but things almost feel too out of place for that. Only time will tell for sure I suppose.

[plfranke]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...
The wound to Shepard's side: When Shepard shoots Andersen, she shoots him in the lower left flank. Shortly after this, Shepard inspects a wound on her own left flank- she puts a hand to the wound, then brings it away and looks confused by the blood on her fingers. This seems to me a clear indicator that something is surreal or not right about the scenario.

You can have Anderson shot in the head and Shepard then shoots TIM if you do not pick either parago nor renegade... so why Shepard does also not get shot in the head when that happens? Why only the stomach thing applies?

The main difference between those two is that Shepard is not the one pulling the trigger. If TIm and Anderson are two parts of Shepards mind then Shepard shooting either of them would wound (read weaken) that part of his mind represented by the fact that the wound is reflected upon Shepard.

But in the case of TIM pulling the trigger it is another part of his mind weakening another part of his mind. This is then reflected in the significantly higher score needed for the breath scene, but because Shepard was not the one actually taking an action the action is not reflected upon him.

At least that is my interpretation.

Hope that made sense.

But even when TIM shoots Anderson, Shepard had already shot Anderson in the stomach. I also find it odd that it takes 1000 more ems to get the Shepard lives scene if TIM shot Anderson. From what I've understood IT says that you need the war assets because you need the fleets and everything to give Shepard time to snap out of his indoctrination, but what would Anderson being shot by TIM have anything to do with that. I can actually think of a face value explanation for that much faster than I can an IT reason.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

BleedingUranium wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Looking over all the evidence again, thinking about the Breath scene (205 views of my brightened video), and I cannot stop asking: what will Bioware do next? What are they going to do with the Mass Effect Universe? What are they going to do with Shepard? They obviously have something planned with the Breath scene added regardless of whether or not Indoctrination Theory is true. Does Shepard stumble back to his or her feet, Carnfiex in hand, blasting any Husks in sight. Or is the war truly over after Destroy? Do Shepard's squadmate find the still breathing body and nurse it back to health? Is the Universe full of Reapers, not just the Milky Way, that have been running the cycle like clockwork creating millions upon millions of Reapers in the process and killing more civilizations that I can count? Will they come back to Earth, and will we be able to stop them?

I can say without a doubt I'll be waiting patiently, though not without struggle, until Bioware releases "What's Next" for our Shepard. I just hope it happens soon... I know a lot of us are struggling to wait. Keep hope, the day will come when we find out exactly what happens, why things happen, and what happens next. Hold the line.

Prequel most likely. Maybe about the Rachni Wars? We do know Sovereign was behind that. Or maybe about some cycle we've never heard of. Or maybe the very first civilization and how the Reapers came to be. Any of those would be pretty cool

I would play these prequels I'm sure, but I'd be more interested in playing what happens next in the MEU, because we already know what happens next after these wars at a general level at least. We don't know what certain characters do or feel so that would be worth playing.

@polor89
I hope so too.

[Baldsake]

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

[Salient Archer]

As I read more into the indoctrination theory I cant help but feel that when the Extended Cut DLC comes out it'll have a reveal sequence of all the linked events and clues (Much like the Clayface reveal in Arkham City) leading up to Shepard finally breaking free of the indoctrination process and a lot of literalists giving themselves a nice firm facepalm.

This is of course assuming that the IT is correct.

[plfranke]

Baldsake wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

No, I don't think that's the smartest idea either, but if you don't care about the ending anymore then why are you here? Haha sound like the starchild if you have low ems.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Baldsake wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

I'm betting on 3 months, around June 6th. I was hoping May, but realistically it's probably more like July we'll be seeing it. I'm hoping Bioware does post-ending DLC after EC, maybe get some interest back for you and others, but that's probably months off....

[Destructorlio]

plfranke wrote...

But even when TIM shoots Anderson, Shepard had already shot Anderson in the stomach. I also find it odd that it takes 1000 more ems to get the Shepard lives scene if TIM shot Anderson. From what I've understood IT says that you need the war assets because you need the fleets and everything to give Shepard time to snap out of his indoctrination, but what would Anderson being shot by TIM have anything to do with that. I can actually think of a face value explanation for that much faster than I can an IT reason.

Someone previously posited that we've been misunderstanding EMS- while it does represent military strength, it also represents Shepard's belief in himself- the more support he gathers, the more EMS he has. This explains why largely symbolic gestures in the game (finding a statue, giving someone a book) increase the EMS by a seemingly disproportionate degree. As the final battle is in Shepard's mind, his confidence in his allies probably has a great effect on his resistance to indoc. The death of Andersen, real or false, no doubt would impact greatly on this.

[Salient Archer]

Baldsake wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

Or it makes perfect sense to wait that long to 1) give everyone a chance to see the ending and speculate on it and 2) to have the community grow more excitted, anxious and hungry to see it. Considering one of the greatest things the ME3 ending has done is unite a lot of people in a search for clues and a series of debating.

Basically doing what Casey Hudson always wanted: give "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE".

Modifié par Salient Archer, 04 mai 2012 - 11:06 .

[Baldsake]

I was trying to make a point that if the EC comes out it's very possible a lot of people won't even care enough to download it.. I don't know about you but I'm not gonna be thinking about this ending for the next 4 months.

[polor89]

Baldsake wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

I dont blame you at all especially if this extended cut dlc is nothing more than just a 10 minutes cutscene i will be pretty f@@cking p!ssed off too for waiting months as it seems for only that

[Destructorlio]

Baldsake wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I'm reaching a point where I don't even care about the ending anymore, I haven't even touched the game in forever... If the extended ending was planned then it was the dumbest idea ever to have us wait for 4-5 months.

It was released less than 2 months ago. If you haven't touched it in forever, you've never touched it.

I'll call the wahmbulance for you.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Baldsake wrote...

I was trying to make a point that if the EC comes out it's very possible a lot of people won't even care enough to download it.. I don't know about you but I'm not gonna be thinking about this ending for the next 4 months.

I understand, I'm sure others understand even better, but some advice: even if you don't care about the ending anymore keep an eye on the forums for news of whether or not to try EC when it hits. Maybe we'll all be surprised, who knows for sure.

[Salient Archer]

Baldsake wrote...

I was trying to make a point that if the EC comes out it's very possible a lot of people won't even care enough to download it.. I don't know about you but I'm not gonna be thinking about this ending for the next 4 months.

You're right, I might not be thinking about it as much; but the very moment the EC is available I'll be downloading it and waiting anxiously to find out what exactly BioWare "really" has to say about the ending of the saga.

[Baldsake]

@destructorlio wtf is your problem? ..and for some reason I can't quote on my ohone.

[plfranke]

Destructorlio wrote...

plfranke wrote...

But even when TIM shoots Anderson, Shepard had already shot Anderson in the stomach. I also find it odd that it takes 1000 more ems to get the Shepard lives scene if TIM shot Anderson. From what I've understood IT says that you need the war assets because you need the fleets and everything to give Shepard time to snap out of his indoctrination, but what would Anderson being shot by TIM have anything to do with that. I can actually think of a face value explanation for that much faster than I can an IT reason.

Someone previously posited that we've been misunderstanding EMS- while it does represent military strength, it also represents Shepard's belief in himself- the more support he gathers, the more EMS he has. This explains why largely symbolic gestures in the game (finding a statue, giving someone a book) increase the EMS by a seemingly disproportionate degree. As the final battle is in Shepard's mind, his confidence in his allies probably has a great effect on his resistance to indoc. The death of Andersen, real or false, no doubt would impact greatly on this.

That's very clever, but think about this situation. Two players are at the end Player A has 4000 EMS, Player B has 3000 EMS. Player B saves Anderson from being shot by TIM and goes on to take the destroy option. He doesn't get the breath scene because his forces couldn't hold out long enough for him to break free. Player A lets Anderson get shot by TIM and picks destroy. What's the exact reason he doesn't get the breath scene?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Baldsake wrote...

@destructorlio wtf is your problem? ..and for some reason I can't quote on my ohone.

Just ignore it, some of us fans are frustrated and decide to aim it at the naysayers. Thank YOU for not aiming yours at us, argueing at each other doesn't accomplish much and it's better left to Private Message.

@destructorli

I'm sure you're eager to outright start things with someone who you think is complaining but keep it to yourself, this is not the place for it. Or at least keep it with them in a PM, keeps the thread clean.

[plfranke]

Baldsake wrote...

@destructorlio wtf is your problem? ..and for some reason I can't quote on my ohone.

I don't think he was intentionally bashing you, it's just a little strange. If someone comes to a thread specifically about endgame discussion, you expect them to discuss the end game, not say they don't care about the end anymore. I guess it kind of seems like you still actually care about the ending, either that or you're trying to get us not to care.

[MegumiAzusa]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bm Fahrtz wrote...

After looking at this cube map, i have concluded that....

I have no clue what it is. Somebody explain.

Edit: After reading through a couple posts. I still dont understand why people think this is a hint of some kind.

Trees can be found in the reflection of the ground in the final room on the Citadel. There is absolutely no reason for them to be there. It's confirmed that those trees would have had to of been intentionally placed there and not just been left behind or recycled, because the trees get more visible if you have the choice of Synthesis available. One would think that a room in space with no visible plantlife, that has the reflections of trees on the ground could not possibly exist. It would be save to assume this area is not real.

That's just a cheap reflection map... you found these all over the ME games... some of my favourite ones were mountains reflections found within confined spaces of the Citadel. It's a pretty generic thing to do in modern games because reflecting the real enviornment is much more expensive in terms of performance.

Which would make sense if it were a cubemap of an environment of that setting, but the trees were intentionally placed in the cubemap as it is depicting the scene you have, just with added trees.

[plfranke]

I'm intrigued now. Can anyone say whether if you have just enough ems to get the synthesis option, and you let TIM shoot Anderson, you're still able to get the synthesis option?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

plfranke wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

plfranke wrote...

But even when TIM shoots Anderson, Shepard had already shot Anderson in the stomach. I also find it odd that it takes 1000 more ems to get the Shepard lives scene if TIM shot Anderson. From what I've understood IT says that you need the war assets because you need the fleets and everything to give Shepard time to snap out of his indoctrination, but what would Anderson being shot by TIM have anything to do with that. I can actually think of a face value explanation for that much faster than I can an IT reason.

Someone previously posited that we've been misunderstanding EMS- while it does represent military strength, it also represents Shepard's belief in himself- the more support he gathers, the more EMS he has. This explains why largely symbolic gestures in the game (finding a statue, giving someone a book) increase the EMS by a seemingly disproportionate degree. As the final battle is in Shepard's mind, his confidence in his allies probably has a great effect on his resistance to indoc. The death of Andersen, real or false, no doubt would impact greatly on this.

That's very clever, but think about this situation. Two players are at the end Player A has 4000 EMS, Player B has 3000 EMS. Player B saves Anderson from being shot by TIM and goes on to take the destroy option. He doesn't get the breath scene because his forces couldn't hold out long enough for him to break free. Player A lets Anderson get shot by TIM and picks destroy. What's the exact reason he doesn't get the breath scene?

The only logical guess I can think of has to do with Indoctrination Theory and Anderson being a manifestation of Shepard's willpower (as I'm sure I've said a lot by now sorry for being repetative). If such a large part of your willpower is gone, then you wouldn't be able to resist the Reapers and the Destroy option isn't available or the bad Destroy option is the only one available.

OR

A more direct guess: when being shown the Destroy option, the Catalyst depicts it as Anderson's choice. With Anderson executed it's possible his choice simply isn't there. Illusive Man's decision is sitll there because it was influenced by the Reapers, and even though he's dead, the Reapers are not so their influence would still be there to choose from.... That make sense? I'm just guessing best I can at this point.

[Destructorlio]

Baldsake, I do apologize, that did come across a little harshly. I definitely wasn't trying to start something and I definitely am here for constructive chat, not flamewars- but I recognize that's how it comes across (I hadn't seen your second comment when I wrote that, which is not a defence, but I see better where you're coming from now) so please do accept my apology and I withdraw my snarky comment.

I do see your point, actually. Like, I only finished ME3 last week so I've been kind of obsessed with the ending and IT since then, but I can definitely imagine being a bit over it by June.