57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Boradam]

balance5050 wrote...

Dang Boradam, quick on those replies! You're doing this board proud.

Lack of sleep maaaaan, I'm still catching up to this page.

[SS2Dante]

Boradam wrote...

XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.

The word doesn't have to have the one meaning as the Starbrat says, but we know they're making Reapers one way or another but IT believers think Starbrat is a lying sonova**** and is a Reaper itself (at least I do) and the ascension he was referencing to was the Reaper-larva, but that's just a word being used to reference they're being processed.

If that makes any sense.

Well, yeah. The Reapers refer to making organics into a Reaper as "ascension" because they believe they are a much higher state of being. Not really sure how this helps one way or another?

By the way, Boradam, we don't ALL think the starbrat is lying. (I mean he obviously is to a degree, and your subconcious is shifting to make his argument seem much more reasonable, but the basic point he makes could very well be what the Reapers truly believe. Doesn't really make a difference to IT)

[MegumiAzusa]

Destructorlio wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Those are pretty cool although I cannot say I really understand what's going on.

Those are the sides of the cubemaps pasted together by someone. The middle cubemap is used in the game.

I think what MA was asking was: how does that translate into the actual game? Obviously those trees aren't actually there as seen in that cubemap when you look out towards the horizon in the actual game, so where are they- how do the contents of the cubemap present themselves in the game itself? 

As I understand it they only looked into the cubemap when someone thought they saw the reflections of the trees on the floor of the catalyst/choice room. Is the cubemap the reference that the game uses to generate reflections?

Yes, otherwise the scene would need to be rendered at least twice, so you just prerender a cube from one point and use that to simulate reflections.
If you look here: all the obvious markers are there, now if you look closer you can see irregularities on the ground where the tree would be because of the irregularities of the leaves, it's even the same pattern.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 04 mai 2012 - 03:37 .

[Boradam]

SS2Dante wrote...

Boradam wrote...

XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.

The word doesn't have to have the one meaning as the Starbrat says, but we know they're making Reapers one way or another but IT believers think Starbrat is a lying sonova**** and is a Reaper itself (at least I do) and the ascension he was referencing to was the Reaper-larva, but that's just a word being used to reference they're being processed.

If that makes any sense.

Well, yeah. The Reapers refer to making organics into a Reaper as "ascension" because they believe they are a much higher state of being. Not really sure how this helps one way or another?

By the way, Boradam, we don't ALL think the starbrat is lying. (I mean he obviously is to a degree, and your subconcious is shifting to make his argument seem much more reasonable, but the basic point he makes could very well be what the Reapers truly believe. Doesn't really make a difference to IT)

That's what I meant by "at least I do," so yeah sorry I didn't mean to seem like I was speaking for us all.

[Destructorlio]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Out of curiosity but doesn't a hallucination means Shepard is walking about but imagining things?

While what the IT says, it is that he is unconscious, so is like "dreaming" or something, but not hallucinating because he is not conscious.

I don't know if the IT specifically says if he is dreaming or hallucinating- indeed, one of the 'branches' of the IT tree is that there are analogues between Shepard's last location on the ground outside the beam and with the catalyst/choice room (the beam of light in the center, the four circles to the left hand side, the fact that Shepard has to shoot to the right side, where Harbinger was in relation to the beam, to destroy) so IT could represent the fact that he is just stumbling around on Earth, moving through his surroundings but interpreting them differently (this triggers the chilling thought that Marauder Shields could, in theory, be Garrus!). Alternatively he could be unconcious and 'dreaming' the events portrayed, or at least having a battle in his subconcious that his mind interprets as the three choices of the ending.

IT doesn't actually draw many conclusions, and I don't think it needs to. The entire premise of IT is that something is not right with the end sequence, and that there are many in-game clues that point to the fact that Shepard may be experiencing some kind of battle inside his mind/outside of reality. I've had people say that they don't believe that Shepard is being indoctrinated, but they still believe the final sequence is not 'really' happening, for other reasons. I don't agree with this interpretation, but at it's heart it's still a nonliteral interpretation of the ending, which means it is more like IT than the literal interpretation is. 

So whether Shepard is unconcious or hallucinating is much of a muchness, really. The core principle of IT is that the ending as presented has too many holes, and too many clues pointing towards indoctrination, to take at face value. ALso, it's more fun to talk about. If the literal interpretation is true, that just means the writers went bananas and drove the plane into the ground. If IT is true, this thread is testament to how many clues and interpretations there are for it. It's like watching Fight Club and saying: "Nah, I reckon Brad Pitt really was there, cause you could see him!"

[byne]

XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.

Except by preparing them for ascension all he means is prepare them to be melted down and turned into a Reaper. We've known that the Reapers harvest people and turn them into new Reapers since the end of ME2, we just really didnt know why, other than that was basically their version of reproduction.

Godchild claims it is to protect them from being killed by synthetics,

Harbinger never claimed why, and seemed to have a more malicious reason for doing it, with quotes like:

- "Take what is useful, destroy the rest"
- "Progress cannot be halted"
- "Your worlds will become our laboratories.

Plus his comments on the different races of the galaxy:

- "Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating."
- "Drell; useless, insufficient numbers."
- "Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled"
- "Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
- "Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability."
- "Geth; an annoyance, limited utility."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential"
- "Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated."
- "Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential."
- "Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted."
- "Turian; you are considered...too primitive."


Harby's thoughts about all the different races really dont make much sense if the Reapers' entire goal is to preserve organic life.

Also, if synthetics are such a danger, why are the geth only an 'annoyance'?

If preserving organics is the Reapers' main goal, why were cybernetic implants seen as something that worked in the quarians' favor?

And the Turians are too primitive to harvest apparently, yet godchild claims they leave the races that are too primitive alone.

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

No matter how you look at it, godchild's reasoning doesnt fit with Sovereign or Harbinger's reasoning.

[Destructorlio]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

If you look here: all the obvious markers are there, now if you look closer you can see irregularities on the ground where the tree would be because of the irregularities of the leaves, it's even the same pattern.

Oh, wow, I had not seen that image before, I definitely see the tree reflected there now.

I don't know how people can interpret this as anything other than a huge clue pointing towards IT. I mean, this has clearly been designed to be so.

[MadRabbit999]

Destructorlio wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Out of curiosity but doesn't a hallucination means Shepard is walking about but imagining things?

While what the IT says, it is that he is unconscious, so is like "dreaming" or something, but not hallucinating because he is not conscious.

I don't know if the IT specifically says if he is dreaming or hallucinating- indeed, one of the 'branches' of the IT tree is that there are analogues between Shepard's last location on the ground outside the beam and with the catalyst/choice room (the beam of light in the center, the four circles to the left hand side, the fact that Shepard has to shoot to the right side, where Harbinger was in relation to the beam, to destroy) so IT could represent the fact that he is just stumbling around on Earth, moving through his surroundings but interpreting them differently (this triggers the chilling thought that Marauder Shields could, in theory, be Garrus!). Alternatively he could be unconcious and 'dreaming' the events portrayed, or at least having a battle in his subconcious that his mind interprets as the three choices of the ending.

IT doesn't actually draw many conclusions, and I don't think it needs to. The entire premise of IT is that something is not right with the end sequence, and that there are many in-game clues that point to the fact that Shepard may be experiencing some kind of battle inside his mind/outside of reality. I've had people say that they don't believe that Shepard is being indoctrinated, but they still believe the final sequence is not 'really' happening, for other reasons. I don't agree with this interpretation, but at it's heart it's still a nonliteral interpretation of the ending, which means it is more like IT than the literal interpretation is. 

So whether Shepard is unconcious or hallucinating is much of a muchness, really. The core principle of IT is that the ending as presented has too many holes, and too many clues pointing towards indoctrination, to take at face value. ALso, it's more fun to talk about. If the literal interpretation is true, that just means the writers went bananas and drove the plane into the ground. If IT is true, this thread is testament to how many clues and interpretations there are for it. It's like watching Fight Club and saying: "Nah, I reckon Brad Pitt really was there, cause you could see him!"

Funny you say that but from the second Shepard woke up durign my first palythrough, Ihad the feeling I was shooting at my own friends when I saw the husks and the Maraurder, do not ask why, it was just a feeling at the time.

But for the video IT to be true, shepard has to be unconcious and not hallucinate I think.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

byne wrote...

XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.

Except by preparing them for ascension all he means is prepare them to be melted down and turned into a Reaper. We've known that the Reapers harvest people and turn them into new Reapers since the end of ME2, we just really didnt know why, other than that was basically their version of reproduction.

Godchild claims it is to protect them from being killed by synthetics,

Harbinger never claimed why, and seemed to have a more malicious reason for doing it, with quotes like:

- "Take what is useful, destroy the rest"
- "Progress cannot be halted"
- "Your worlds will become our laboratories.

Plus his comments on the different races of the galaxy:

- "Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating."
- "Drell; useless, insufficient numbers."
- "Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled"
- "Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
- "Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability."
- "Geth; an annoyance, limited utility."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential"
- "Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated."
- "Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential."
- "Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted."
- "Turian; you are considered...too primitive."


Harby's thoughts about all the different races really dont make much sense if the Reapers' entire goal is to preserve organic life.

Also, if synthetics are such a danger, why are the geth only an 'annoyance'?

If preserving organics is the Reapers' main goal, why were cybernetic implants seen as something that worked in the quarians' favor?

And the Turians are too primitive to harvest apparently, yet godchild claims they leave the races that are too primitive alone.

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

No matter how you look at it, godchild's reasoning doesnt fit with Sovereign or Harbinger's reasoning.

Yeah godchild dosent make alot of sense and he constantly refers to himself as "we" and "us." Dident Sovreign say "We are each a nation". Legion even confirms in ME2 that Reaper minds are similar to geth, but also different (the organic part)...so we have a starchild who says he leads the Reapers and refers to himsefl in the same way the Reapers do...and you want me to trust you?

Beyond that i am gonna repost this video concerning the choices

It is long, but perfectly breaks down many of the hints and allusions towards Synthesis, Control and Destroy throughout the games, who spoke for each and why Control and Synthesis ultimately boils down to beeing in favor of the Reapers.

[ExtendedCut]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Out of curiosity but doesn't a hallucination means Shepard is walking about but imagining things?

While what the IT says, it is that he is unconscious, so is like "dreaming" or something, but not hallucinating because he is not conscious.

Agreed.  There seems to be a little bit of a disconnect between IT'ers based on what the indoctrination actually involves.  Some say Harbinger blew the crap out of Shepard and he dreams the end as he is lying in London, half-dead.  Some say that he actually did go up into the beam to the Citadel and the whole ending sequence is a manifest of part-reality and part-insanity in Shepard's mind due to indoc.

Personally, I'm not sure.  I think the latter may be a little more explainable by BW as it pertains to the "real" function of the Crucible and therefore, the "actual" victory over the Reapers.

[Boradam]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

byne wrote...

XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.

Except by preparing them for ascension all he means is prepare them to be melted down and turned into a Reaper. We've known that the Reapers harvest people and turn them into new Reapers since the end of ME2, we just really didnt know why, other than that was basically their version of reproduction.

Godchild claims it is to protect them from being killed by synthetics,

Harbinger never claimed why, and seemed to have a more malicious reason for doing it, with quotes like:

- "Take what is useful, destroy the rest"
- "Progress cannot be halted"
- "Your worlds will become our laboratories.

Plus his comments on the different races of the galaxy:

- "Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating."
- "Drell; useless, insufficient numbers."
- "Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled"
- "Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
- "Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability."
- "Geth; an annoyance, limited utility."
- "Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential"
- "Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated."
- "Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential."
- "Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted."
- "Turian; you are considered...too primitive."


Harby's thoughts about all the different races really dont make much sense if the Reapers' entire goal is to preserve organic life.

Also, if synthetics are such a danger, why are the geth only an 'annoyance'?

If preserving organics is the Reapers' main goal, why were cybernetic implants seen as something that worked in the quarians' favor?

And the Turians are too primitive to harvest apparently, yet godchild claims they leave the races that are too primitive alone.

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

No matter how you look at it, godchild's reasoning doesnt fit with Sovereign or Harbinger's reasoning.

Yeah godchild dosent make alot of sense and he constantly refers to himself as "we" and "us." Dident Sovreign say "We are each a nation". Legion even confirms in ME2 that Reaper minds are similar to geth, but also different (the organic part)...so we have a starchild who says he leads the Reapers and refers to himsefl in the same way the Reapers do...and you want me to trust you?

Beyond that i am gonna repost this video concerning the choices

It is long, but perfectly breaks down many of the hints and allusions towards Synthesis, Control and Destroy throughout the games, who spoke for each and why Control and Synthesis ultimately boils down to beeing in favor of the Reapers.

I consider the Starbrat to be Harbinger or a Reaper trying to trick Shepard into believing his logic (as many others do, as I've been led to believe) so each time he says "We" or "Us" it just reinforces my view of him being a Reaper.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

"Oh, this is PALAVEN? We're terribly sorry, we thought this was Parnack, I mean, the 'Pa' at the beginning... you know, these things can happen..."

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 04 mai 2012 - 03:53 .

[SS2Dante]

Just cos I'm bored I thought I'd try and clarify the endings a little bit (or at least my understanding of the endings).
I think the first and most important explanation is that the final scenes are NOT controlled or planned by Harbinger. It's a visual interpretation of the battle in Shepards mind, and it's as much for us as for Shepard. 

Secondly, the role of Anderson, your will. One crucial function of Anderson that doesn't seem to be brought up a lot is that Anderson is your ability to recognise indoctrination. From a logical standpoint there's not really much difference between the Anderson Tim scene and the Crucible choices, but the Crucible is MUCH more appealing. The transition happens directly after Anderson dies. While Anderson is alive you can hear the whispers and see the Reaper influence. Wheareas the second TIM appears you can here the Catalyst drum beat once, associating it with indoctrination. 

Anyhoo. Um, yeah.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

"Oh, this is PALAVEN? We're terribly sorry, we thought this was Parnack, I mean, the 'Pa' at the beginning... you know, these things can happen..."

Primitive in this case means not complicated. Turians have a clear societal/political structure and straightforward values.

[balance5050]

SS2Dante wrote...

Just cos I'm bored I thought I'd try and clarify the endings a little bit (or at least my understanding of the endings).
I think the first and most important explanation is that the final scenes are NOT controlled or planned by Harbinger. It's a visual interpretation of the battle in Shepards mind, and it's as much for us as for Shepard. 

Secondly, the role of Anderson, your will. One crucial function of Anderson that doesn't seem to be brought up a lot is that Anderson is your ability to recognise indoctrination. From a logical standpoint there's not really much difference between the Anderson Tim scene and the Crucible choices, but the Crucible is MUCH more appealing. The transition happens directly after Anderson dies. While Anderson is alive you can hear the whispers and see the Reaper influence. Wheareas the second TIM appears you can here the Catalyst drum beat once, associating it with indoctrination. 

Anyhoo. Um, yeah.

I don't know, there is a whole lot of BS in that final segment and a lot of "new" information. I think the final scene is more controlled by an outside force than by Shep. Everything previous seems to be drawing from Sheps memories, so that would be more from Shep's head.

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

"Oh, this is PALAVEN? We're terribly sorry, we thought this was Parnack, I mean, the 'Pa' at the beginning... you know, these things can happen..."

Primitive in this case means not complicated. Turians have a clear societal/political structure and straightforward values.

A Yahg was a quite successful Shadow Broker for years. I wouldn't call that more primitive then Turians.

[Rosewind]

Eh to much writing to read.

[SS2Dante]

Destructorlio wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

If you look here: all the obvious markers are there, now if you look closer you can see irregularities on the ground where the tree would be because of the irregularities of the leaves, it's even the same pattern.

Oh, wow, I had not seen that image before, I definitely see the tree reflected there now.

I don't know how people can interpret this as anything other than a huge clue pointing towards IT. I mean, this has clearly been designed to be so.

There's another image that's a bit easier to spot as well (or at least I thought so)

Um the current explanation from some people, both IT and not, is that at some point there were meant to be trees in the Crucible (perhaps to make Shepard feel more comfortable or something) but they were removed and Bioware forgot to change the cubemaps.

...which...yeah. Seems to me to be a far bigger leap than BW putting them there deliberately.

[SubAstris]

blooregard wrote...


Current (best) pieces of evidence supporting the IT:
1) The kid on Earth (may have been real before but is seen running into a house before it gets blown up and is perfectly fine in the ventilation)
2) Nobody notices the child in any instance except Shepard (nobody helps him onto the shuttle and Anderson doesn't say anything about who Shepard is talking too
3) Reaper growl heard when Anderson gets shep's attention away from the kid
4) Increasingly weird dreams where you see the "oily shadows" and hear whispers from the nearly incomprehensible murmurs to the squad mates
5) TIM's post Thessia change of heart ("I'm not looking for your approval" to "I need you to believe"
6) The weird growls when you and Anderson confront TIM
7) The oily black borders in that same scene
8) Waking up after the destroy ending in what appears to be human rubble

1) The reasoning behind BW putting in the kid is odd. He is shown at the beginning of the game in the flesh (he is real) at this point, then despite not seeing him actually die, he is then fake for the rest of the mission? It would be an odd way to show indoctrination. But anyway, we don't know where he went in that time after he has entered the building, it is far from certain whether he would be killed. It was a big explosion, but it can't be known for certain that is for sure. There is a possibility he managed to hide himself, in the vent even.
2) Nobody seems to realise the kid, however that doesn't mean he is not real. I believe there are good reasons why BW didn't have an interaction between the kid and other characters. The kid we can all agree, IT or not, is meant to generate a degree of pathos, it is a personal relationship and thus is symbolic of Shepard's own guilt that he cannot save anything on Earth (the comment he says after the vent scene shows this, "it is hard knowing that even if you try your best, you can't save them all"). To have Anderson in such a scene would be completely unnecessary. Furthermore, Anderson at this moment is looking for a way out, hence why he says "Shepard, over here!". He is in the other room and not concentrating on Shep at this moment. As for the shuttle scene, there are reasons on a practical and stylistic level about why there would be no interaction. On a practical one, the soldiers cannot possibly do anything to help the kid anyway since there are a load of Reaper troops about to overwhelm them; even to avert their gaze could dramatically change the situation on the battlefield, and it is therefore too dangerous. Furthermore by having no one help the child, it increases Shepard's empathy for said child, which is what the child is all about.
3) There are Reapers outside the building, make a lot of noise. I see it as an audible cue, marking the transistion from the tender child scene to one focusing on the harsh realities of the war and the matter at hand.
4) The dreams themselves aren't particularly weird if they are meant to symbolises Shep's guilt and the stress of the situation. The fact that it is squadmates makes it very clear that Shep is guilty about all the people he has lost who have been close to him, while the countless murmurs" represent countless people who have died.
5) In the start of the game, TIM is supremely confident because he has a massive army, a brilliant assasin and the work on indoctrination at Sanctuary is doing well. However by the end of the game he is in a desparate situation, he is falling to pieces; like all megalomaniacs TIM wants Shep to believe so that he can be secure in his own beliefs.
6) Linked to the Reaper implants TIM has been given at Cerberus Base and the power he has over Shep and Anderson
7) Ditto
8) Very controversial. The rubble in my opinion could be either Citadel or Earth, it is very debatable. What swings it in my favour is the appearance of the cables like the ones seen on the Citadel but which are nowhere to be present around the beam on Earth

Modifié par SubAstris, 04 mai 2012 - 04:08 .

[byne]

Yknow, after I beat ME3 for like the 10th time a few days ago, I realized I needed a save with Kaidan alive so I could unlock barrier and reave as bonus powers, so I went back and replayed ME2 to get an import with Kaidan for ME3.

At the end Harby told me: "Human. You've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

Then at the end of ME3 godchild is all 'Nah man destruction is bad, maybe you could make everyone robots instead or something?'

I dont think so godchild, Harby made sense. Salvation through destruction.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

Guess that whole Palaven thing is just a big misunderstanding.

"Oh, this is PALAVEN? We're terribly sorry, we thought this was Parnack, I mean, the 'Pa' at the beginning... you know, these things can happen..."

Primitive in this case means not complicated. Turians have a clear societal/political structure and straightforward values.

A Yahg was a quite successful Shadow Broker for years. I wouldn't call that more primitive then Turians.

The Shadow Broker was a single member of Yahg species who "escaped" the confines of his homeworld.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

Yknow, after I beat ME3 for like the 10th time a few days ago, I realized I needed a save with Kaidan alive so I could unlock barrier and reave as bonus powers, so I went back and replayed ME2 to get an import with Kaidan for ME3.

At the end Harby told me: "Human. You've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

Then at the end of ME3 godchild is all 'Nah man destruction is bad, maybe you could make everyone robots instead or something?'

I dont think so godchild, Harby made sense. Salvation through destruction.

"Salvation through destruction"- being ascended,just as the Catalyst, yeah?

[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

Yknow, after I beat ME3 for like the 10th time a few days ago, I realized I needed a save with Kaidan alive so I could unlock barrier and reave as bonus powers, so I went back and replayed ME2 to get an import with Kaidan for ME3.

At the end Harby told me: "Human. You've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

Then at the end of ME3 godchild is all 'Nah man destruction is bad, maybe you could make everyone robots instead or something?'

I dont think so godchild, Harby made sense. Salvation through destruction.

Lol yeah but of cause Harby not going to say it as the starchild.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just cos I'm bored I thought I'd try and clarify the endings a little bit (or at least my understanding of the endings).
I think the first and most important explanation is that the final scenes are NOT controlled or planned by Harbinger. It's a visual interpretation of the battle in Shepards mind, and it's as much for us as for Shepard. 

Secondly, the role of Anderson, your will. One crucial function of Anderson that doesn't seem to be brought up a lot is that Anderson is your ability to recognise indoctrination. From a logical standpoint there's not really much difference between the Anderson Tim scene and the Crucible choices, but the Crucible is MUCH more appealing. The transition happens directly after Anderson dies. While Anderson is alive you can hear the whispers and see the Reaper influence. Wheareas the second TIM appears you can here the Catalyst drum beat once, associating it with indoctrination. 

Anyhoo. Um, yeah.

I don't know, there is a whole lot of BS in that final segment and a lot of "new" information. I think the final scene is more controlled by an outside force than by Shep. Everything previous seems to be drawing from Sheps memories, so that would be more from Shep's head.

The "new" information is being given to Shepard by the indoctrination waves. I mean, essentially that's how they work. They slowly convince the person into a different viewpoint. I'm not saying there's not a bit of a dialogue between the two forces, just that Harbinger is not "designing" the rooms that Shepard sees.

But of course, symbology. You can debate forever in the smaller details

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, after I beat ME3 for like the 10th time a few days ago, I realized I needed a save with Kaidan alive so I could unlock barrier and reave as bonus powers, so I went back and replayed ME2 to get an import with Kaidan for ME3.

At the end Harby told me: "Human. You've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

Then at the end of ME3 godchild is all 'Nah man destruction is bad, maybe you could make everyone robots instead or something?'

I dont think so godchild, Harby made sense. Salvation through destruction.

"Salvation through destruction"- being ascended,just as the Catalyst, yeah?

I'm not arguing Harby in the context he was saying it was arguing for the destroy ending. I'm just saying it makes sense if you apply it to the endings.

Plus, godchild claims he doesnt wipe out organics, he just ascends them. I doubt he'd describe it as destruction of organic life.

Modifié par byne, 04 mai 2012 - 04:10 .