blooregard wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
blooregard wrote...
Current (best) pieces of evidence supporting the IT:
1) The kid on Earth (may have been real before but is seen running into a house before it gets blown up and is perfectly fine in the ventilation)
2) Nobody notices the child in any instance except Shepard (nobody helps him onto the shuttle and Anderson doesn't say anything about who Shepard is talking too
3) Reaper growl heard when Anderson gets shep's attention away from the kid
4) Increasingly weird dreams where you see the "oily shadows" and hear whispers from the nearly incomprehensible murmurs to the squad mates
5) TIM's post Thessia change of heart ("I'm not looking for your approval" to "I need you to believe"
6) The weird growls when you and Anderson confront TIM
7) The oily black borders in that same scene
8) Waking up after the destroy ending in what appears to be human rubble
1) The reasoning behind BW putting in the kid is odd. He is shown at the beginning of the game in the flesh (he is real) at this point, then despite not seeing him actually die, he is then fake for the rest of the mission? It would be an odd way to show indoctrination. But anyway, we don't know where he went in that time after he has entered the building, it is far from certain whether he would be killed. It was a big explosion, but it can't be known for certain that is for sure. There is a possibility he managed to hide himself, in the vent even.
2) Nobody seems to realise the kid, however that doesn't mean he is not real. I believe there are good reasons why BW didn't have an interaction between the kid and other characters. The kid we can all agree, IT or not, is meant to generate a degree of pathos, it is a personal relationship and thus is symbolic of Shepard's own guilt that he cannot save anything on Earth (the comment he says after the vent scene shows this, "it is hard knowing that even if you try your best, you can't save them all"). To have Anderson in such a scene would be completely unnecessary. Furthermore, Anderson at this moment is looking for a way out, hence why he says "Shepard, over here!". He is in the other room and not concentrating on Shep at this moment. As for the shuttle scene, there are reasons on a practical and stylistic level about why there would be no interaction. On a practical one, the soldiers cannot possibly do anything to help the kid anyway since there are a load of Reaper troops about to overwhelm them; even to avert their gaze could dramatically change the situation on the battlefield, and it is therefore too dangerous. Furthermore by having no one help the child, it increases Shepard's empathy for said child, which is what the child is all about.
3) There are Reapers outside the building, make a lot of noise. I see it as an audible cue, marking the transistion from the tender child scene to one focusing on the harsh realities of the war and the matter at hand.
4) The dreams themselves aren't particularly weird if they are meant to symbolises Shep's guilt and the stress of the situation. The fact that it is squadmates makes it very clear that Shep is guilty about all the people he has lost who have been close to him, while the countless murmurs" represent countless people who have died.
5) In the start of the game, TIM is supremely confident because he has a massive army, a brilliant assasin and the work on indoctrination at Sanctuary is doing well. However by the end of the game he is in a desparate situation, he is falling to pieces; like all megalomaniacs TIM wants Shep to believe so that he can be secure in his own beliefs.
6) Linked to the Reaper implants TIM has been given at Cerberus Base and the power he has over Shep and Anderson
7) Ditto
8) Very controversial. The rubble in my opinion could be either Citadel or Earth, it is very debatable. What swings it in my favour is the appearance of the cables like the ones seen on the Citadel but which are nowhere to be present around the beam on Earth
1) You're saying a laser that cuts through dreadnoughts like a cuttng torch through butter doesn't kill a kid hiding in a civilian building's ventilation shaft? seems too far out their IMO
2) Even if the soldiers didn't notice/couldn't help the kid there were plenty of civilians on the shuttles and trying to the shuttle and not a single one of them could help him?
3) Fair enough but its there since it supports stuff found in the books (from what I've heard)
4) The dreams that show the strange "oily black shadows" and show you and the kid bursting into flames aren't strange?
5) TIM sided with the Reapers told them about the crucible and got the citadel moved to Earth both him and the Reapers plan on sabotaging the crucible in some way or another to an indoctrinated slave I don't think TIM could be any happier. Besides if he could control Shepard into shooting Anderson why not control shepard into shooting Anderson and himself. No TIM is indoctrinated and feels everything that has happened thus far is a meaningful sacrafice I don't think he came all that way just to need shep to chant "I think you can I think you can I think you can"6) The growls that cause Shepard to hold his head in pain? TIM may be controlling shep but he sure seems to be able to hold his head in pain
7) I knew there was something unexplainable in that list8) insisting its the citadel implies that Shepard survived an explosion that engulfed the entire presidium and exposure to vaccum (possible). Insisting its Earth but not IT insists Shepard survived everything that killed him in the second game but with 90% less protection.
1) We don't know where the kid was and therefore cannot accurately determine the amount of damage sustained. That is why I am reluctant to say he is not real.
2) And read again what I said about it from a literary point of view
3) I haven't actually read the line where this is explained, although I've heard it talked about a lot. Has anyone got it?
4) The oily shadows, representations of people you have lost through your journey. Kid bursting into flames again shows Sheps deepest fears (as far as dreams go it is not that weird)
5) And yet he knows that he cannot control the Reapers. He knows that Shep, the man most likely to foil his plans, is still out there and in fact right in front of him. Remember, he doesn't initially just say, "I need you to believe", it is only when the situation becomes so very desperate. The line fits with TIM's character and mental state at this point.
6) TIM has partial control over Shep and Anderson.
7) ??? But I did explain
8) I am using what two sources affliated to BW have said, that Shepard survives on the Citadel
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