57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Your copy/pasted quote has absolutely nothing to do with my insight. I honestly have no idea what's the point you're trying to make?

Other than you are unable to think critically and only have the ability to post pretentious quotes randomly in hopes of it all making sense.

Trying reading my original post, I feel new perspectives may be beneficial to you.

ok minty... enlighten us on why we are wrong, point out the flaws. help us "think critically"

Specify that you mean in relation to IT or he will use your vague phrasing to bash religion again and claim he thought thats what you meant.

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Your copy/pasted quote has absolutely nothing to do with my insight. I honestly have no idea what's the point you're trying to make?

Other than you are unable to think critically and only have the ability to post pretentious quotes randomly in hopes of it all making sense.

Trying reading my original post, I feel new perspectives may be beneficial to you.

ok minty... enlighten us on why we are wrong, point out the flaws. help us "think critically"

*Grabs popcorn*
Dis gon be gud!

[SS2Dante]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

If you look here: all the obvious markers are there, now if you look closer you can see irregularities on the ground where the tree would be because of the irregularities of the leaves, it's even the same pattern.

Oh, wow, I had not seen that image before, I definitely see the tree reflected there now.

I don't know how people can interpret this as anything other than a huge clue pointing towards IT. I mean, this has clearly been designed to be so.

There's another image that's a bit easier to spot as well (or at least I thought so)

Um the current explanation from some people, both IT and not, is that at some point there were meant to be trees in the Crucible (perhaps to make Shepard feel more comfortable or something) but they were removed and Bioware forgot to change the cubemaps.

...which...yeah. Seems to me to be a far bigger leap than BW putting them there deliberately.

I still think they were never really supposed to be seen other then in the reflection.

Oh, I completely agree. What's amusing me about a lot of this is that the techniques used aren't even new, and this one in particular has been done to death. Think every horror film ever, for a start

[polor89]

MintyCool wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Are we really comparing RELIGION with the indoctrination theory??

Why is this so unreasonable to you?



Instead of living in a hole all your life, try to live by these simple rules. Your life will become much richer...


1. Do not feel absolutely certain of anything.

2. Do not think it worth while to proceed by concealing evidence, for the evidence is sure to come to light.

3. Never try to discourage thinking for you are sure to succeed.

4. When you meet with opposition, even if it should be from your husband or your children, endeavor to overcome it by argument and not by authority, for a victory dependent upon authority is unreal and illusory.

5. Have no respect for the authority of others, for there are always contrary authorities to be found.

6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.

7. Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

8. Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent than in passive agreement, for, if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter.

9. Be scrupulously truthful, even if the truth is inconvenient, for it is more inconvenient when you try to conceal it.

10. Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool’s paradise, for only a fool will think that it is happiness.


I know,

I'm quite the impressive Mint.

WOW i mean now seriously are you doing all this to just annoy the majority of us and troll us if you do that ok i accept it but no offense this seriously a little f@cked up

[dreamgazer]

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

[SS2Dante]

Guys. Minty is a troll. Simple. Ignore and it goes away.

[Tirian Thorn]

[quote]MintyCool wrote...



Instead of living in a hole all your life, try to live by these simple rules. Your life will become much richer...



1. Do not feel absolutely certain of anything.

[/quote]

Yet you are so certain that IDT is false. And you are also “certain” that anyone who thinks it is, is an idiot. 


[quote]

2. Do not think it worth while to proceed by concealing evidence, for the evidence is sure to come to light.

[/quote]
Agree. 

[quote]
3. Never try to discourage thinking for you are sure to succeed. [/quote]
Yet, you think we should all stop wasting time discussing IDT. 

[quote]

4. When you meet with opposition, even if it should be from your husband or your children, endeavor to overcome it by argument and not by authority, for a victory dependent upon authority is unreal and illusory.
[/quote]
It’s clear to me that you don’t present arguments, You laugh at people, call them stupid (and other childish names) and then cry about being treated unfairly. 

[quote]

5. Have no respect for the authority of others, for there are always contrary authorities to be found.
[/quote]
When asked not to discuss religion or belittle another faith (or lack of) you don’t think you should stop. There is a higher power. The forum monitors. 

[quote]

6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.
[/quote]
And yet, if you had the power you’d delete all traces of IDT for some unknown reason. Is it so wrong that others don’t agree with your “facts.” 


[quote]
7. Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
[/quote]
I don’t know if you’re afraid of IDT, but you seriously have some issues with people who subscribe to the theory. 

[quote]
8. Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent than in passive agreement, for, if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter.
[/quote]

There has been no intelligent dissent from you or passive anything. You are outright aggressive towards anyone who subscribes to IDT. 
[quote]

9. Be scrupulously truthful, even if the truth is inconvenient, for it is more inconvenient when you try to conceal it.
[/quote]
Pretty much the same as number 2.
[quote]

10. Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool’s paradise, for only a fool will think that it is happiness.

[/quote]

[quote]
I know,

I'm quite the impressive Mint.

[/quote]
I am thoroughly unimpressed by everything you have said or done here. Your tone and attitude is highly combative and antagonistic. You do not engage in any sort of civil discussion nor you accept viewpoints that are contrary to your own. Guess what – that’s life. There are thousands upon thousands of different viewpoints. And if your reaction to those viewpoints is to belittle and demean people who don’t subscribe to your world view then you are going to have a very hard time in life. 

Life is diverse as are opinions. Even among pro-IDT’ers we vary slightly in interpretation etc. 
And as for religion there are not FACTS – deal with it. Religion is a matter of faith. 
Science doesn’t disprove religion and religion doesn’t make science obsolete. And anyone who says otherwise is truly a fanatic and unable to accept the fact that there are views other than theirs.   
 
/End Rant

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 04 mai 2012 - 06:36 .

[balance5050]

Trolls are lonely guys, they die without attention. Kill it!

[EpyonX3]

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Are we really comparing RELIGION with the indoctrination theory??

It happens every hundred pages or so

"The cycle... MUST continue."

It is not a thing, we can comprehend.

[SS2Dante]

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

Two different teams, so probably not. Probably better to use the foreshadowing from ME1 as evidence of writing ability.

On a slightly differerent note, the latest RoosterTeeth podcast has an interview at the end with the people making Paragon Lost, the ME anime film that shows Vega's backstory. Apparently The script was written waay back when they were writing ME3 and the studios collaberated on Vega as a character, so we get to see the mission that went wrong and stuff in the film.

[SubAstris]

blooregard wrote...

1) You're saying a laser that cuts through dreadnoughts like a cuttng torch through butter doesn't kill a kid hiding in a civilian building's ventilation shaft? seems too far out their IMO
2) Even if the soldiers didn't notice/couldn't help the kid there were plenty of civilians on the shuttles and trying to the shuttle and not a single one of them could help him?
3) Fair enough but its there since it supports stuff found in the books (from what I've heard)
4) The dreams that show the strange "oily black shadows" and show you and the kid bursting into flames aren't strange?
5) TIM sided with the Reapers told them about the crucible and got the citadel moved to Earth both him and the Reapers plan on sabotaging the crucible in some way or another to an indoctrinated slave I don't think TIM could be any happier. Besides if he could control Shepard into shooting Anderson why not control shepard into shooting Anderson and himself. No TIM is indoctrinated and feels everything that has happened thus far is a meaningful sacrafice I don't think he came all that way just to need shep to chant "I think you can I think you can I think you can"6)  The growls that cause Shepard to hold his head in pain? TIM may be controlling shep but he sure seems to be able to hold his head in pain 
7) I knew there was something unexplainable in that list8) insisting its the citadel implies that Shepard survived an explosion that engulfed the entire presidium and exposure to vaccum (possible). Insisting its Earth but not IT insists Shepard survived everything that killed him in the second game but with 90% less protection

1) We don't know where the kid was and therefore cannot accurately determine the amount of damage sustained. That is why I am reluctant to say he is not real.
2) And read again what I said about it from a literary point of view
3) I haven't actually read the line where this is explained, although I've heard it talked about a lot. Has anyone got it?
4) The oily shadows, representations of people you have lost through your journey. Kid bursting into flames again shows Sheps deepest fears (as far as dreams go it is not that weird)
5) And yet he knows that he cannot control the Reapers. He knows that Shep, the man most likely to foil his plans, is still out there and in fact right in front of him. Remember, he doesn't initially just say, "I need you to believe", it is only when the situation becomes so very desperate. The line fits with TIM's character and mental state at this point.
6) TIM has partial control over Shep and Anderson.
7) ??? But I did explain
8) I am using what two sources affliated to BW have said, that Shepard survives on the Citadel







1) The kid didn't suffer a single scratch from getting lasered? even if he did survive do you really think he would have been injured in the slightest and whats with the kid turning down being saved I don't think any kid in that position would say "you can't save me" to a soldier who's trying to get off world.
2) Literary PoV is just "artistic integrity" spelled differently and if they did make the kid have to fend for himself the entire time just for the added "shock value" then its a stupid reason and could have probably been more emotional if he found his mom by the shuttles and they got lasered the fact that nobody helps him is either a stupid decision on the writer's part or the kid died in that apartment.
3) I haven't read it either but Cerberus was expirementing with indoctrination and from the indoctrinatee's point of view every time he resisted the indoctrination some kind of animalistic reaper growl could be heard apparently. It can be explained by ambient noise in the back ground but we haven't heard a reaper noise like that they're always that deep BWWAAAAAAAAAAA even the sound during the TIM conversation is closer to the deeper BWWAAAAAAAA that Reapers make
4) Going off what the Rachni queen says about the first Rachni War (assuming the Rachni were indoctrinated) she mentions seeing/hearing oily black shadows and what not which go with the dreams
5) He doesn't show that kind of mental state on Chronos Station  (to the best of my knowledge) so its still a dramatic shift from "I'm not looking for your approval" to "I need you to believe" and "I wish you could see it...its so...perfect"
6) If the Reapers could implant TIM like that or such things could be salvaged from Reaper tech why didn't Saren or Kai Leng have something similar? Along with the Reaper Growl when TIM I belive there are soft whisper like sounds in that scene somewhere
7) Then I misread your explaination
8)I believe Jessica Merizan herself said that her tweets are her opinion and viewpoint as a fan and nothing more and who else from BW said that shep woke up on the citadel?

1) Again we don't know the extent of injuries because we don't know where he was exactly. He could have crawled yards up the vent, we just don't know. All we do know is that he is alive when Shep speaks to him. As for his comments, I don't think they are particularly weird. He has just seen his entire world go upside down, buildings destroyed all around. You even see him running frantically away. The complete destruction of Earth is happening despite the presence of the Alliance. Furthermore, it increases the guilt Shepard has, people don't trust him anymore.

Also, if the kid had agreed to come with you, just from a gameplay point of view, would you have really wanted him to have him tagging along with you as a burden?

2) Literary techniques and devices are different to artistic integrity. You might question the effectiveness of the scenes with the kid but that doesn't mean he wasn't used to extract guilt from Shepard by BW
3) Then how do you know that others haven't misquoted? But even so, if the sound wasn't deep then it might obscure Anderson's speech
4) See one of my comments to SSDante about that
5) No he doesn't, but there is a difference between meeting someone in person and in a hologram. Remember that this is at the height of emotions, the climax of the series.
6) They could have had similar implants, we don't know because we haven't been told
7) Ok
8) Evidence?

Modifié par SubAstris, 04 mai 2012 - 06:37 .

[fade2black.1337]

Rosewind wrote...

fade2black.1337 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...


I don't think Aethyta is on the citadel any more by that time.

We should be able to bring Aethyta onboard as our bartender.

She could be play the wise old bartender role and console Tali after Horizon, and she'd make sure Ash doesnt get completely hammered ever again.

Plus she would be able to keep an eye on Liara, which is her job, after all.

That would have actually been a badass idea.

Wasn't Aethyta killed in an explosion? The one that the turian CSec agent and the bartender are having a discussion about? I admit I don't remember well.

No she alive you hear that commando lady in purgatory talking about Aethyta sending a commando squad (this after the Cerberus invasion).

That's good news... I'd hate liara not giving a crap about her father dying 

[The Edge]

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

Well the DA team and the ME team are seperate, so there's that. Also, the Fade was established in the universe as a "somewhat-physical" plane, while indoctrination seems to be more of a mental thing. Plus the ending in question happens at the end while the Fade happens somewhere in the middle.

Still, it's an interesting point of comparison. Plus both were pretty unexpected.

[MintyCool]

estebanus wrote...

You know what the funniest thing is about Mintycool?

How he acts exactly like a fundamentalist creationist would that he claims to be against.

She.

estebanus wrote...
Seriously, we have piles of evidence that support our cause, just like evolutionists do, but people like him just dismiss our claims because he says it's untrue, without even getting any evidence to support his cause!

How does it feel like being a hypocrite, Minty?

Wait, are you talking about religion, or IDT? You speak in blathering vague statements.

In either case, you have zero evidence for both.

Both are hypothesizes. Fact. Always. Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 04 mai 2012 - 06:37 .

[Rosewind]

Well as fun as this s I am going to go to bed Night all!!!

[Unschuld]

SS2Dante wrote...

Guys. Minty is a troll. Simple. Ignore and it goes away.

I'm guilty at quoting hilariously hypocritical posts, but ignoring is what we should be doing. Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

[DJBare]

Unschuld wrote...

MintyCool wrote...
1. Do not feel absolutely certain of anything.

Um, wow... just wow...

Awww come on, Minty is human, have to allow for failings once in a while.

[balance5050]

Rosewind wrote...

Well as fun as this s I am going to go to bed Night all!!!

G'night buddy!

[byne]

DJBare wrote...

Awww come on, Minty is human, have to allow for failings once in a while.

The two underlined parts combined made me lol pretty hard

[lex0r11]

Totally unrelated.

Quick guys, I'm starting my first real Femshep playthrough wit ME1. What class besides the soldier this time?

[SubAstris]

NoSpin wrote...

I can't believe Jessica Merizan is still being mentioned in this thread. I can't believe it. Sub, she doesn't know where Shep is. Nobody at Bioware has clarified anything about the ending. Whether it was PAX, the Weekes interview, all plot important bits are intentionally left vague and no answers are given.

How is "all plot important on the Citadel survive" and "Shep is on the Citadel" vague exactly? You assert that she doesn't know, yet gave a definitive answer and is linked to BW

[Kyzee]

Kyzee wrote...

 http://openclipart.o.../1269426677.svg

Okay, I'm putting the kibosh on the whole IDT vs. religion vs. delusion right now!

This has no place here. While people may feel free to see symbolism or religious parallels in Mass Effect, NOBODY has the right to insult them for doing, or mock people's beliefs or lack thereof in general. That's bigotry. That's bullying. And I will NOT tolerate that here.

ENOUGH!

I can't believe I have to quote myself in order to post this again in less than an hour. This thread is to discuss IDT, NOT the validity of religion or atheism! 

[Tirian Thorn]

lex0r11 wrote...

Totally unrelated.

Quick guys, I'm starting my first real Femshep playthrough wit ME1. What class besides the soldier this time?

Sentinel Femshep is fun. 

Double Heavy melee is fun.  Plus any combination that makes a biotic explosion is fun.  Love the sound for it too. 

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 04 mai 2012 - 06:40 .

[balance5050]

MintyCool wrote...

Would you like to discuss any particular aspect of I.T.? Shepard Alive scene? or perhaps Major Coats' role in the story? 

[MintyCool]

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

I'll admit it's sometimes tough to remain civil when discussions are spammed by the indoctrinated... but this is expected. To them ignorance is knowledge....

It's a shame.

Like it or not, I receive a lot of support on these boards.