57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

To get us back on topic, I shall quote something I said earlier that I still find interesting.

byne wrote...

One thing I've been wondering about.

If the end is indeed a hallucination, 'Anderson' on the Citadel would just be a figment of Shep's imagination based on what Shep knows about Anderson, and Shep doesnt seem to know much about Anderson's past, not even knowing he was born in London.

In the cut version of the final talk with Anderson, he mentions how he 'never had a family, Shepard, never had children.'

As far as Shep knows, that is the case, since he has never talked to her about his family or any possible children, but we know for sure he at least had a wife, because at the beginning of Revelation, Anderson goes to get drunk at Chora's Den because his divorce has just been finalized.

The Shadow Broker Dossier on Anderson also kind of implies he has a son:

Intercept 04:23//#12947 - DA - 325
Sender: Cynthia Barris, Atlanta, Earth


David,

Henry and I went to Jason's graduation ceremony in San Francisco today. Such a beautiful occasion! All those gowns and bright spirits. So much potential! I know Henry would frown at the thought, but I couldn't help recalling the pomp around your appointment to the Hastings. You were the second in command, weren't you? The military always did ceremony very well. God, that was a lifetime ago.

Jason says to send his best. I'm so proud of him! "Aerospace Engineer." I don't pretend to understand what he does, but the gleam in his eyes when he is trying to explain his latest designs to me say that he has found his place in this universe. He wanted you to be there, at his ceremony, but I know duty calls. He sees you as a heroic figure off fighting grand battles in space. I hope you can make it for the holidays this year. Henry asked just the other day. I know you don't see eye to eye on much but he respects you. He respects what you do. And you know Jason is over the moon when you can take the time to review his ship designs.
Let me know about the holidays and David, please be careful.


Love,

Cynthia

Now, the REAL Anderson knows he had a wife, and would know if he had a kid or not, but Shepard wouldnt know that, so in her mind the final chat with Anderson mentioning he'd never had a family would have been accurate, but could have been intended as a hint something was off to people familiar with the lore of the ME universe.

Yknow, if they hadnt cut that awesome scene for no damned reason.

Maybe it would've been too obvious a clue?

Am I just looking too much into a cut snippet of dialogue? Is the old 'Bioware is lazy' excuse sufficient to explain why Anderson wouldnt remember his family?

[estebanus]

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I have mentioned to a few other people but:

The logic is simple.
1) Patrick Weekes has stated that you should assume all plot-important people survive on the Citadel.
2) Shepard is plot-important.
3) Therefore Shepard is on the Citadel

Also a comment from Jessica Merizan, states explicity that "Shep was on the Citadel"

So how long are you going to use paraphrases and PR quotes as your "evidence"?

As long as you do the same, which shall be forever

SubAstris, you're doing it again. We all (or the majority of us at least) agree that Bioware cannot be used as evidence one way or the other. I don't mind you pointing this out to people when they're doing this but implying (repeatedly) that all of us are hypocrites isn't the best way to encourage civil conversation.

I don't see why BW themselves can't be used as a source of information since they write the lore. If BW came out tomorrow and announced IT was true, would you not consider that strong evidence (or even proof) for IT? 

btw, I wasn't implying it for you

[estebanus]

MintyCool wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

I'll admit it's sometimes tough to remain civil when discussions are spammed by the indoctrinated... but this is expected. To them ignorance is knowledge....

It's a shame.

Like it or not, I receive a lot of support on these boards.

Are you even noticing what you're writing?

Because I'm pretty sure calling us laughable and pathetic is NOT level-headed.

[Unschuld]

MintyCool wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

 
 

Modifié par Unschuld, 04 mai 2012 - 06:42 .

[SubAstris]

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

Totally unrelated.

Quick guys, I'm starting my first real Femshep playthrough wit ME1. What class besides the soldier this time?

Vanguard through all three games.

Liara romance in ME1. Try to romance Samara in ME2. Fail. Romance Liara in LotSB and continue the romance in ME3.

You'll be just like me!

[Tirian Thorn]

MintyCool wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

I'll admit it's sometimes tough to remain civil when discussions are spammed by the indoctrinated... but this is expected. To them ignorance is knowledge....

It's a shame.

Like it or not, I receive a lot of support on these boards.

You have been asked several times. 

WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT IDT IS FALSE!?

[StElmo]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I have mentioned to a few other people but:

The logic is simple.
1) Patrick Weekes has stated that you should assume all plot-important people survive on the Citadel.
2) Shepard is plot-important.
3) Therefore Shepard is on the Citadel

Also a comment from Jessica Merizan, states explicity that "Shep was on the Citadel"

So how long are you going to use paraphrases and PR quotes as your "evidence"?

As long as you do the same, which shall be forever

SubAstris, you're doing it again. We all (or the majority of us at least) agree that Bioware cannot be used as evidence one way or the other. I don't mind you pointing this out to people when they're doing this but implying (repeatedly) that all of us are hypocrites isn't the best way to encourage civil conversation.

I don't see why BW themselves can't be used as a source of information since they write the lore. If BW came out tomorrow and announced IT was true, would you not consider that strong evidence (or even proof) for IT? 

btw, I wasn't implying it for you

Dude, they are in PR mode, we don't know WHAT is true.


Also remember what they told us prior to release? they are proven to not be exactly reliable.

[waldstr18]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

I'll admit it's sometimes tough to remain civil when discussions are spammed by the indoctrinated... but this is expected. To them ignorance is knowledge....

It's a shame.

Like it or not, I receive a lot of support on these boards.

You have been asked several times. 

WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT IDT IS FALSE!?

i believe proof will be delivered soon enough. be patient.

[estebanus]

MintyCool wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You know what the funniest thing is about Mintycool?

How he acts exactly like a fundamentalist creationist would that he claims to be against.

She.

estebanus wrote...
Seriously, we have piles of evidence that support our cause, just like evolutionists do, but people like him just dismiss our claims because he says it's untrue, without even getting any evidence to support his cause!

How does it feel like being a hypocrite, Minty?

Wait, are you talking about religion, or IDT? You speak in blathering vague statements.

In either case, you have zero evidence for both.

Both are hypothesizes. Fact. Always. Checkmate.

IT is a theory, just like evolution, and if you say that we have no evidence to back up our claims, then you really are NO better than a creationist fundamentalist.

Oh, and thanks for proving my point.

[Tirian Thorn]

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

Yes, it is a plot twist, but IDT would be a much larger one. 

Using KOTOR as an example shows that Bioware has made plot twists before and has produced incredible games that have been highly regarded.  To me, this shows that they are not incompetant bumbling baboons. 

[The Edge]

MintyCool wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You know what the funniest thing is about Mintycool?

How he acts exactly like a fundamentalist creationist would that he claims to be against.

She.

estebanus wrote...
Seriously, we have piles of evidence that support our cause, just like evolutionists do, but people like him just dismiss our claims because he says it's untrue, without even getting any evidence to support his cause!

How does it feel like being a hypocrite, Minty?

Wait, are you talking about religion, or IDT? You speak in blathering vague statements.

In either case, you have zero evidence for both.

Both are hypothesizes. Fact. Always. Checkmate.

Facts? That's not how faith works, Minty

In regards to the Indoc Theory, there's a lot of evidence. Most of it is circumstancial, but it's evidence none-the-less. Why not give us concrete reasons why the Indoc Theory doesn't work? You know, so both sides can pick at the other's arguement.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

My character never believed that though! He knew what his name really was!


As for not seeing it coming, I've seen lots of people say that it was an extremely obvious twist to them, but I for one never saw it coming.

I mean, I was 13 when it came out, so that might have something to do with not seeing the twist coming, but even playing it through again, the stuff that seems like gigantic hints are only really obvious in hindsight.

[estebanus]

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

Yes, it was said that you were in fact Revan, but you would NEVER have noticed it until the big reveal!
Or are you saying that you knew you were Revan before?

[dreamgazer]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Yes, it is a plot twist, but IDT would be a much larger one. 

Using KOTOR as an example shows that Bioware has made plot twists before and has produced incredible games that have been highly regarded.  To me, this shows that they are not incompetant bumbling baboons. 

Very true.

[marcelo_sdk]

I think there's not much to talk until EC release. Basically, the next month(s) will be dedicated to combating trolls.

[Unschuld]

byne wrote...

To get us back on topic, I shall quote something I said earlier that I still find interesting.

Now, the REAL Anderson knows he had a wife, and would know if he had a kid or not, but Shepard wouldnt know that, so in her mind the final chat with Anderson mentioning he'd never had a family would have been accurate, but could have been intended as a hint something was off to people familiar with the lore of the ME universe.

Yknow, if they hadnt cut that awesome scene for no damned reason.

Maybe it would've been too obvious a clue?


Am I just looking too much into a cut snippet of dialogue? Is the old 'Bioware is lazy' excuse sufficient to explain why Anderson wouldnt remember his family?

Or maybe they cut the line because they realized it was an inconsistancy after they recorded it. Shepard would know if he read the Shadow Broker files. good catch, but I think it could go either way.

Modifié par Unschuld, 04 mai 2012 - 06:47 .

[SubAstris]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

Yes, it is a plot twist, but IDT would be a much larger one. 

Using KOTOR as an example shows that Bioware has made plot twists before and has produced incredible games that have been highly regarded.  To me, this shows that they are not incompetant bumbling baboons. 

And therefore more prone to mistakes, and more unlikely that a developer would dare to do such a thing. I'm not saying they are baboons they just messed up the ending, that's all, the plot from ME2 has not been the most coherent

[Tirian Thorn]

estebanus wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I have a curious question which may get things somewhat back on track:

One of the big arguments I've heard against the theory being incorrect is that people simply don't consider BioWare clever or intelligent enough to implement all these clues and execute something this surreal. However, I'm actually playing Dragon Age: Origins again, and I'm kind of mesmerized at how intricate and well-thought the components of The Fade are -- a partitioned-from-reality, surreal, metaphorical playground -- and how they tie into the story proper. I'm especially talking about the big sequence in the Circle of Magi involving the deeply-layered labyrinth of nightmares that the characters have to navigate.

Question being: Though it involves two writing houses, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age come out of the same creative wheelhouse and involve similar creative channels. Therefore, do you consider The Fade to be viable-enough as a counterpoint to that argument?

I also don't get it with this whole "Bioware isn't smart enough" stuff.

What about KOTOR? Did anyone ever see that plot twist coming? Did anyone actually see the evidence that came before as actual evidence? No, they didn't, because all the evidence that alludes to you being Revan is so subtle, yet it makes so much sense at the same time after the big reveal!

Also, KOTOR was directed by Casey Hudson, who as we all know came up with the Mass Effect series, so no one should say that he's just incompetent!

Admittedly, from memory, it actually said that you were Revan at the end, slightly different

Yes, it was said that you were in fact Revan, but you would NEVER have noticed it until the big reveal!
Or are you saying that you knew you were Revan before?

I'd call BS on anyone who thought they were Revan BEFORE the reveal.  (provided someone didn't tell them either) 

[estebanus]

Aw crap, now we've got 2 trolls here!

TROLLING PRESENCES DETECTED. ACTIVATING SECURITY PROTOCOLS.

[Big G13]

lex0r11 wrote...

Totally unrelated.

Quick guys, I'm starting my first real Femshep playthrough wit ME1. What class besides the soldier this time?

There is a class other than soldier? No my friend, I think you are mistaken.

[MakeMineMako]

MintyCool wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Minty hasn't posted anything relevant, and never will.

Many would disagree with you.

I try to invite level-headed arguments with information to back claims.

I'll admit it's sometimes tough to remain civil when discussions are spammed by the indoctrinated... but this is expected. To them ignorance is knowledge....

It's a shame.

Like it or not, I receive a lot of support on these boards.

Not that I have seen.

The real shame is that somebody that's obviously intelligent resorts to trolling and poorly disguised insults.

Anyway, I had just dropped in to see what the IT folks were talking about. Now, I see that they are contending with BSN's troll extraordinaire.

Peace, out.

[byne]

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

To get us back on topic, I shall quote something I said earlier that I still find interesting.

Now, the REAL Anderson knows he had a wife, and would know if he had a kid or not, but Shepard wouldnt know that, so in her mind the final chat with Anderson mentioning he'd never had a family would have been accurate, but could have been intended as a hint something was off to people familiar with the lore of the ME universe.

Yknow, if they hadnt cut that awesome scene for no damned reason.

Maybe it would've been too obvious a clue?


Am I just looking too much into a cut snippet of dialogue? Is the old 'Bioware is lazy' excuse sufficient to explain why Anderson wouldnt remember his family?

Or maybe they cut the line because they realized it was an inconsistancy after they recorded it. Shepard would know if he read the Shadow Broker files. good catch, but I think it could go either way.

But the Shadow Broker file doesnt actually explain who the woman or the two guys she is talking about are. Could have been Anderson's sister and his nephews or just some random close friend for all Shep knows.

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Totally unrelated.

Quick guys, I'm starting my first real Femshep playthrough wit ME1. What class besides the soldier this time?

Vanguard through all three games.

Liara romance in ME1. Try to romance Samara in ME2. Fail. Romance Liara in LotSB and continue the romance in ME3.

You'll be just like me!

And like me!