57139 réponses à ce sujet

[polor89]

Lol batman-turian nice picture:P

[DJBare]

Boradam wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Hey guys, remember that mystery person on the garden planet?(some thinking it maybe Garrus), I just reloaded and replayed the ending selecting destroy, Shepard did not survive(no breath scene) but the interesting thing, no mystery person either, I've gone over it frame by frame in in virtuadub, nothing, nada, not there.

Wait, what mystery person on the garden world?

Please note my sentence, I can only be referring to one world after destroy, the one the Normandy crashed on, I'm in the process of uploading a video, but it's slow on my connection.

Modifié par DJBare, 04 mai 2012 - 11:11 .

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

If you read the comments in bold, I was responding to that specifically.

I did read them, and you misunderstood him.

[BatmanTurian]

polor89 wrote...

Lol batman-turian nice picture:P

sometimes pictures don't post right on this forum.

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just in case any people try to argue that the blurs during the TIM convo aren't indoctrination blurs

http://postimage.org...4m3bvrsxh/full/

I don't believe that a lot of people don't think those aren't indoc' blurs. Most people who don't believe IT is true think that it is TIM who is using his newly-founded powers to partly control Shep and Anderson

Um...minor quibble here maybe, but it's labelled "Reaper indoc", not TIM indoc. I'm fine with the literalist view that TIM is being used to transmit indoc signals (as indoc victims are stated to do) but not that it's TIM himself causing those blurry lines.

May have misunderstood you of course

Of course, TIM is using Reaper tech. It is the Reaper tech, not TIM himself which is causing the indoctrination IMO

So you're okay with TIM's Reaper Tech causing indoctrination, but not ACTUAL Reaper Tech....

Your logic is flawed.

[SubAstris]

Hawk227 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Yes, but of all the theories that I have seen regarding the EC using IT, this seems the least plausible. If you are developing, you just don't waste time, money, resources on something completely useful (ME was on a tight schedule already). I don't think BW really just make things for "fun" in this way

You don't understand. To say it didn't happen does not mean it is not important. It is the battle for Shep's mind. This is perhaps the most important moment in the entire series.

What happens if you pick control/synthesis is unknown. Many people have different preferences. Some think there'll be gameplay allowing some sort of redemption where Shepard kills himself rather than undermining the effort, or struggles to break out of it. Others think there'll be a short cinematic where it's made clear that Shepard was indoctrinated, and the last hope for the galaxy is lost. We won't know until the summer, and only if IT is true (I think it is, but I stray from absolutes)

SubAstris wrote....

True, but usually literary interpretations don't require such effort to achieve consensus.

Don't be ridiculous. Have we come to consensus on the ending of Inception? The ending of the Sopranos?

1) I misread, I thought someone was implying that the whole thing didn't matter at all, wasn't important at all.

2) I haven't seen the Sopranos, but seeing the Inception ending it seems like the focus is less on events themselves and more on what they symbolise in terms of character development

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

If you read the comments in bold, I was responding to that specifically.

I did read them, and you misunderstood him.

I said I misread

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

If you read the comments in bold, I was responding to that specifically.

I did read them, and you misunderstood him.

I said I misread

kay

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just in case any people try to argue that the blurs during the TIM convo aren't indoctrination blurs

http://postimage.org...4m3bvrsxh/full/

I don't believe that a lot of people don't think those aren't indoc' blurs. Most people who don't believe IT is true think that it is TIM who is using his newly-founded powers to partly control Shep and Anderson

Um...minor quibble here maybe, but it's labelled "Reaper indoc", not TIM indoc. I'm fine with the literalist view that TIM is being used to transmit indoc signals (as indoc victims are stated to do) but not that it's TIM himself causing those blurry lines.

May have misunderstood you of course

Of course, TIM is using Reaper tech. It is the Reaper tech, not TIM himself which is causing the indoctrination IMO

So you're okay with TIM's Reaper Tech causing indoctrination, but not ACTUAL Reaper Tech....

Your logic is flawed.

No, this is a strawman of my position. Of course Reaper tech can indoctrinate, I just saw very little evidence for in-game outside the ending of it actually doing so.

[Boradam]

byne wrote...

Yknow how if you dont tell Kelly to change her identity, she trusts the Cerberus troops during the Coup, and they kill her?

Well I was browsing the Party Temple thread and found this:



Kelly trusted Cerberus, they killed her.

Kelly trusted Shepard, its possible for Shepard to let her die.

Kelly trusts synthesis?

Well, yet another reason for me not to trust it.

Kelly appears in Mass Effect 3? You can tell her to change her identity? When? How? I MUST KNOW.

[DJBare]

For those who have not kept up with the mystery person on the garden planet, here is someone else' video showing it, also note it cannot be garrus because he is stepping off the ship.
The mysterious figure walkes behind some bushes lower left of the screen

www.youtube.com/watch

[Boradam]

DJBare wrote...

Boradam wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Hey guys, remember that mystery person on the garden planet?(some thinking it maybe Garrus), I just reloaded and replayed the ending selecting destroy, Shepard did not survive(no breath scene) but the interesting thing, no mystery person either, I've gone over it frame by frame in in virtuadub, nothing, nada, not there.

Wait, what mystery person on the garden world?

Please not my sentence, I can only be referring to one world after destroy, the one the Normandy crashed on, I'm in the process of uploading a video, but it's slow on my connection.

Er, I was asking what person was there as I wasn't even aware there was a mystery person who appears in the final scene.

Modifié par Boradam, 04 mai 2012 - 11:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just in case any people try to argue that the blurs during the TIM convo aren't indoctrination blurs

http://postimage.org...4m3bvrsxh/full/

I don't believe that a lot of people don't think those aren't indoc' blurs. Most people who don't believe IT is true think that it is TIM who is using his newly-founded powers to partly control Shep and Anderson

Um...minor quibble here maybe, but it's labelled "Reaper indoc", not TIM indoc. I'm fine with the literalist view that TIM is being used to transmit indoc signals (as indoc victims are stated to do) but not that it's TIM himself causing those blurry lines.

May have misunderstood you of course

Of course, TIM is using Reaper tech. It is the Reaper tech, not TIM himself which is causing the indoctrination IMO

So you're okay with TIM's Reaper Tech causing indoctrination, but not ACTUAL Reaper Tech....

Your logic is flawed.

No, this is a strawman of my position. Of course Reaper tech can indoctrinate, I just saw very little evidence for in-game outside the ending of it actually doing so.

BUT YOU JUST SAID that TIM's Reaper Tech is indoctrinating Shepard and Anderson. Meanwhile, you also say Reaper Tech that Shepard has been exposed to over the course of the series cannot possibly have indoctrinated Shepard passively. It's flawed logic and contradictory.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 mai 2012 - 11:12 .

[jakenou]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

If the code had truly been cracked, why are there over 2,000 pages of debate and discussion?

Because we are still discussing a theory and hammering out the details. That takes time and sometimes many minds. It is not something that happens overnight.

Still, most literary theories don't tend to take this long to iron out and make complete. After probably a million words (and counting), seems a bit long forsomething BW allegedly implemented

Well that's part of the question, isn't it? And what we're all waiting to see - what position on this does BioWare stand? Was it what they intended? Do they have something else in mind? Do they have nothing in mind? If IT is what they go with, was it their intention or did they derive it from the discussions here?

I don't think anyone is trying to complete anything here. Only Bioware can do that. The foundation this thread is based on is looking at the evidence and/or hints that have been laid out for the entire story up until the ambiguous (for some) ending, and discussing the validity as it is applied to the so-called Indoctrination Theory. That's what theoretical research is all about, isn't it? Finding tangible proof or the process of disproving.

I had no idea there was a set timeline for how long it takes to develop a theory. Until the hand of "god" (Bioware being the creator) comes down and says "this is so", most of us will still probably speculate and discuss the implications of other details. But for now, the theory will continue to evolve as long as people constructively take part in the discussions. Einstein continued to struggle with ToR until his death, and it still is being proven and disproven to this day. Too bad he didn't have Bioware as a big space magician in the sky to tell him how it all works

Modifié par jkthunder, 04 mai 2012 - 11:15 .

[Simon_Says]

DJBare wrote...

For those who have not kept up with the mystery person on the garden planet, here is someone else' video showing it, also note it cannot be garrus because he is stepping off the ship.
The mysterious figure walkes behind some bushes lower left of the screen

www.youtube.com/watch

Well it certainly was Garrus in the first clip I saw where I noticed it.

I think it's just the usual party member who'd step out in the control ending. Weird bug.

[byne]

Boradam wrote...


Kelly appears in Mass Effect 3? You can tell her to change her identity? When? How? I MUST KNOW.

She's in the refugee docking bay.

I think you have to have had dinner with her in ME2 for her to show up.

If you had her feeding your fish, she'll even give you back all of the fish you had in ME2 so you dont have to buy them again.

[DJBare]

DJBare wrote...

For those who have not kept up with the mystery person on the garden planet, here is someone else' video showing it, also note it cannot be garrus because he is stepping off the ship.
The mysterious figure walkes behind some bushes lower left of the screen

www.youtube.com/watch

Just confirmed it does not happen in the destroy ending with breath scene.

www.youtube.com/watch

[MegumiAzusa]

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Hey everyone most of you probably remember me talking about a thread where somebody was going through the game files and found some interesting things in them



Tell me what you people think

I can't see the images he/she is linking. Can you paste them up for us?

EDIT: oh nevermind. Just have to click  on the user pictures part. I hate imageshack.

Huh. The Traynor one is bizarre. Why the hell would it be labelled that? 

The Traynor/Cortez packages are loaded for the possibility one of them is your LI and steps out of the Normandy.

I totally forgot about them being LI's! That's cool. Never seen them in the end game, did anyone get that?

Man, the model looks creepy as hell

http://www.youtube.c...Xme5WCIM#t=618s

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just in case any people try to argue that the blurs during the TIM convo aren't indoctrination blurs

http://postimage.org...4m3bvrsxh/full/

I don't believe that a lot of people don't think those aren't indoc' blurs. Most people who don't believe IT is true think that it is TIM who is using his newly-founded powers to partly control Shep and Anderson

Um...minor quibble here maybe, but it's labelled "Reaper indoc", not TIM indoc. I'm fine with the literalist view that TIM is being used to transmit indoc signals (as indoc victims are stated to do) but not that it's TIM himself causing those blurry lines.

May have misunderstood you of course

Of course, TIM is using Reaper tech. It is the Reaper tech, not TIM himself which is causing the indoctrination IMO

So you're okay with TIM's Reaper Tech causing indoctrination, but not ACTUAL Reaper Tech....

Your logic is flawed.

No, this is a strawman of my position. Of course Reaper tech can indoctrinate, I just saw very little evidence for in-game outside the ending of it actually doing so.

BUT YOU JUST SAID that TIM's Reaper Tech is indoctrinating Shepard and Anderson. Meanwhile, you also say Reaper Tech that Shepard has been exposed to over the course of the series cannot possibly have indoctrinated Shepard passively. It's flawed logic and contradictory.

Don't remember specifically saying that, but if I did, is not the fact that he can't possibly be indoctrinated that I want to emphasise (because he can), but the length of time he has been around Reaper artifacts and the lack of portrayal in the narrative of indoctrination at key scenes where one would expect indoc. to occur

[Simon_Says]

BatmanTurian wrote...

BUT YOU JUST SAID that TIM's Reaper Tech is indoctrinating Shepard and Anderson. Meanwhile, you also say Reaper Tech that Shepard has been exposed to over the course of the series cannot possibly have indoctrinated Shepard passively. It's flawed logic and contradictory.

First of all, calm down. As me mum used to say, first person to raise their voice instantly loses.

Second, he's not discounting the possibility that Shepard was subjected to possibly indoctrinating situations before. He said he just thinks that Bioware didn't intend IT, that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated/being indoctrinated throughout ME3, and that the TIM's new echantment powers were the real deal.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 04 mai 2012 - 11:18 .

[Boradam]

Boradam wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Boradam wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Hey guys, remember that mystery person on the garden planet?(some thinking it maybe Garrus), I just reloaded and replayed the ending selecting destroy, Shepard did not survive(no breath scene) but the interesting thing, no mystery person either, I've gone over it frame by frame in in virtuadub, nothing, nada, not there.

Wait, what mystery person on the garden world?

Please not my sentence, I can only be referring to one world after destroy, the one the Normandy crashed on, I'm in the process of uploading a video, but it's slow on my connection.

Er, I was asking what person was there as I wasn't even aware there was a mystery person who appears in the final scene.

The shape of the face appears to look like a Protheans
(Javik) or a Collectors to me, but I'll let the rest of you decide what
it looks like.

Screenshot:

Modifié par Boradam, 04 mai 2012 - 11:19 .

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Just in case any people try to argue that the blurs during the TIM convo aren't indoctrination blurs

http://postimage.org...4m3bvrsxh/full/

I don't believe that a lot of people don't think those aren't indoc' blurs. Most people who don't believe IT is true think that it is TIM who is using his newly-founded powers to partly control Shep and Anderson

Um...minor quibble here maybe, but it's labelled "Reaper indoc", not TIM indoc. I'm fine with the literalist view that TIM is being used to transmit indoc signals (as indoc victims are stated to do) but not that it's TIM himself causing those blurry lines.

May have misunderstood you of course

Of course, TIM is using Reaper tech. It is the Reaper tech, not TIM himself which is causing the indoctrination IMO

So you're okay with TIM's Reaper Tech causing indoctrination, but not ACTUAL Reaper Tech....

Your logic is flawed.

No, this is a strawman of my position. Of course Reaper tech can indoctrinate, I just saw very little evidence for in-game outside the ending of it actually doing so.

BUT YOU JUST SAID that TIM's Reaper Tech is indoctrinating Shepard and Anderson. Meanwhile, you also say Reaper Tech that Shepard has been exposed to over the course of the series cannot possibly have indoctrinated Shepard passively. It's flawed logic and contradictory.

Don't remember specifically saying that, but if I did, is not the fact that he can't possibly be indoctrinated that I want to emphasise (because he can), but the length of time he has been around Reaper artifacts and the lack of portrayal in the narrative of indoctrination at key scenes where one would expect indoc. to occur

Alright, well if that is the fundamental disagreement, then so be it.

[BatmanTurian]

Simon_Says wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

BUT YOU JUST SAID that TIM's Reaper Tech is indoctrinating Shepard and Anderson. Meanwhile, you also say Reaper Tech that Shepard has been exposed to over the course of the series cannot possibly have indoctrinated Shepard passively. It's flawed logic and contradictory.

First of all, calm down. As me mum used to say, first person to raise their voice instantly loses.

Second, he's not discounting the possibility that Shepard was subjected to possibly indoctrinating situations before. He said he just thinks that Bioware didn't intend IT, that Shepard wasn't indoctrinated/being indoctrinated throughout ME3, and that the TIM's new echantment powers were the real deal.

Caps lock was not me raising my voice, it was emphasis without using bold or italics. Sorry if my intent was misunderstood.

[SS2Dante]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Hey everyone most of you probably remember me talking about a thread where somebody was going through the game files and found some interesting things in them



Tell me what you people think

I can't see the images he/she is linking. Can you paste them up for us?

EDIT: oh nevermind. Just have to click  on the user pictures part. I hate imageshack.

Huh. The Traynor one is bizarre. Why the hell would it be labelled that? 

The Traynor/Cortez packages are loaded for the possibility one of them is your LI and steps out of the Normandy.

I totally forgot about them being LI's! That's cool. Never seen them in the end game, did anyone get that?

Man, the model looks creepy as hell

http://www.youtube.c...Xme5WCIM#t=618s

Your post, as well as answering my question, confirms the other discussion going on.

It seem the mysterious other person is another squadmates.

Compare the video Megumi just linked to the other one.

http://www.youtube.c...dYt0rqZQ#t=282s

One is Garrus, and the other one has an Asari shaped head, so I guess that's Liara?

[Arian Dynas]

 [quote]Unschuld wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...
I have mentioned to a few other people but:

The logic is simple. 
1) Patrick Weekes has stated that you should assume all plot-important people survive on the Citadel.
2) Shepard is plot-important.
3) Therefore Shepard is on the Citadel

Also a comment from Jessica Merizan, states explicity that "Shep was on the Citadel"

[/quote]

1. Could also mean Bailey, The Council, Aethyta (sp?), TIM (if encounter was a hallucination), Aria (don't know if she went anywhere yet), etc. Very open ended statement.
2. Yup. 
3.That doesn't state specifically that he's on the citadel.
4*. Jessica Merizan is both proven as stating truth or falsehood when it's convenient for the argument.

[/quote]

Here, let me try a bit of his logic.

1). Old tv shows are black and white.
2). Penguins are black and white.
3). Q.E.D. Penguins are old vt shows. 

[quote]byne wrote...

[quote]Rosewind wrote...


I don't think Aethyta is on the citadel any more by that time.

[/quote]

We should be able to bring Aethyta onboard as our bartender.

She could be play the wise old bartender role and console Tali after Horizon, and she'd make sure Ash doesnt get completely hammered ever again.

Plus she would be able to keep an eye on Liara, which is her job, after all.

[/quote]

Seconded, include her in our list of things we'd like to see in an improved Normandy DLC.

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

[quote]lex0r11 wrote...

Hellooooo, everything dandy in here?[/quote]

LEX0R!!!! ./pounce

[/quote]
Hey.... I never get pounced... I FEEL UNLOVED! 

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

Nope no sugar this time but I did get to hug Arian!!!

[/quote]

I'm a teddy bear, what can I say?

*hug*

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

I AM THE BANSHEEEE QUEEN!!!

Sorry bored lol[/quote]

I'll bet yer a screamer. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

[quote]Tirian Thorn wrote...

[quote]IronSabbath88 wrote...

Artistic Integrity exists.

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing.[/quote]

Psssh art...  What have artists ever done for us?  ***Sarcasm***

But seriously, in my opinion most artists would quickly sell their so called "artistic integrity" for $$$$$.  

[/quote]

Which in the end makes IDT all the more likely. They refuse to changed hated endings that spit in the face of the series... because they are the set up for an actually artistic ending feature a man battling for his very soul.
[quote]XRAY1975 wrote...

Let me start off saying that i like the idea of the IDT, its much better than the face value endings. But, i was replaying ME2, and im sure this has been brought up, when you go to Horizon, you see Harby talking about 'preparing the humans for ascension'. now that doesnt bode well for IDT. it kinda goes along with starbrat. at this point i just want the endings to make sense, even if they are face value. well, thats my two cents right now.[/quote]

How does it not?

Harbinger sees REAPERS as the end of evolution, they are perfection incarnate to him, which indicates he makes reapers to make more reapers, to give others the perfection he has attained.

Which spits in the face of the Task Manager saying "We do it to save ya from synthetics!"

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

Out of curiosity but doesn't a hallucination means Shepard is walking about but imagining things?

While what the IT says, it is that he is unconscious, so is like "dreaming" or something, but not hallucinating because he is not conscious.[/quote] 

READ MAH SCRIPT!  
http://social.biowar...3/1873#11747086 

[quote]Drift Avalii wrote...

That foliage looks like it's from the mysterious Normandy crash, as MegumiAzusa said - it being referred to as 'dream foliage' gives me the happies. 

Also, I'm not on the list yet :-( I shall endeavour to make better contributions![/quote]

You're not  on the list because when I was writing the list I had only managed to include people from pages 1-12 and 1900-1915

[quote]pirate1802 wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

This is the year of Mass Effect Remake.[/quote]

Wouldn't it be awesome if they remake ME1 with ME3 engine?

[/quote]

You kiddin me? We're gonna have to wait that long?

[quote]Angmir wrote...

Hey people ! I was away for like a month from this thread - but I am still holding the line !! (whenever that line is right now ;p ) 

Any news, new evidence or developers statements I missed ?[/quote]]

WHOO LAMO, you got ALOT of catching up to do buddy.

[quote]byne wrote...

Any news over the course of a month? I shall let Cenk Uygur answer this for me.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

Allow M.Bison his say.

 

[quote]balance5050 wrote...


 http://i.imgur.com/oY36A.jpg 
 


Shepard Alive!

Sense of hope!

1. Finale - 2. brave new world - 3. Symbolz

Bomb - Sacrifice self
Reaper - Take control
Hybrid - Blast goes out...

Destroy life -creates a life-

Choice ->Catalyst ->Shepards essence

Forshadow
/|
 |
Device -> vague terms
  |
 |/
Impacts everything
  |                                  
  |                                  
 |/                                 
Reaper anatomy------> Forshadow
  |
  |
 |/
Seed by reaper (?) ---> Dive of R (?)
 |       |
 |      |/
 |     Weakness for Reaper
|/
Chain reaction------->ends conflict-------> Ambigious function


Endings - how do they feel?

End of first Matrix + brave new world

Shepards Death   - Theories about all things <----|They say bomb|

Boy
     But why did he have to die?

LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!!

[/quote]

Unfortunately, this is how I write my story notes. And they're not anymore comprehsnible than this.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 04 mai 2012 - 11:29 .