57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

Boradam wrote...

Ah well, that's a shame somewhat, but he was still in contact with it nonetheless and I can still think and believe he was slightly indoctrinated to a small enough, but still large enough extent when he came into contact with it for him to start on the path to joining the path of Reaperdom.

I havent actually read the comics, but I thought Saren was indoctrinated sometime after 2165, since he first learned about Sovereign in Revelation, and used data he stole to locate it sometime after the events of the book

[Ghost]

Can't Shepard tell the Reapers to go into a sun in the control ending?

[Big Bad]

What's up folks? I just got back from watching the Avengers, and all I have to say is this: Hulk renegade interrupt for the mother****ing win!

If you've seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I mean.

[Boradam]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Boradam wrote...

I never read the comics unfortunately but heard the overall sypnosis from those who had, that sounds pretty damn intense. Did Saren happen to get machine eyes at the same time as TIM or was it later over time in ME1? If so, then both the major antagonists fell from the same tree -- each getting different aspects and goals from the Reaper's: Synthesis, then Cerberus and Control respectively.

I dont recall if Saren gets his blue eyes immediately after his indirect contact with the object, but I dont think so. I'll check in a bit, though. 

I just checked, and it appears that Saren does not get his blue eyes immediately after his indirect contact with the object. 

I thought Saren got his blue eyes after talking to Shep on Virmire. Remember, he mentioned that after talking to Shep he began to have doubts, and the Reapers implanted him to 'strengthen his resolve'

It seems Saren had his Reaper eyes far before Virmire, I think it's likely for him to have gotten them when he got his Geth tubes grafted in his body while traveling in Sovereign.

Modifié par Boradam, 05 mai 2012 - 05:34 .

[balance5050]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Can't Shepard tell the Reapers to go into a sun in the control ending?

If you believe you can control anything after you die then sure!

[Boradam]

byne wrote...

Boradam wrote...

Ah well, that's a shame somewhat, but he was still in contact with it nonetheless and I can still think and believe he was slightly indoctrinated to a small enough, but still large enough extent when he came into contact with it for him to start on the path to joining the path of Reaperdom.

I havent actually read the comics, but I thought Saren was indoctrinated sometime after 2165, since he first learned about Sovereign in Revelation, and used data he stole to locate it sometime after the events of the book

TIM didn't yet know of the Reapers after contact with the Indoctrination device (I think) so it could be he was indoctrinated before encountering Sovereign but it was subtle enough for him to be his own person but not enough to start helping the Reapers, but after encountering Sovereign it (the indoctrination) would have grown stronger.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized I made a mistake in my earlier post before this, so if you noticed it this post should clear it up a bit. Fairly tired, but I must hold the line.

Modifié par Boradam, 05 mai 2012 - 05:34 .

[balance5050]

Big Bad wrote...

What's up folks? I just got back from watching the Avengers, and all I have to say is this: Hulk renegade interrupt for the mother****ing win!

If you've seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I mean.

I think I know what you're talking about, I laughed so hard!!!

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Can't Shepard tell the Reapers to go into a sun in the control ending?

If you believe you can control anything after you die then sure!

The control ending is really weird.

Shepard basically becomes the new Catalyst, but unless the Catalyst just hates Sovereign and didnt want to help him, it cant open or close the Citadel's arms.

Makes you wonder why the arms close in Control.

Who closed them?

[Simon_Says]

HellishFiend wrote...

I can honestly say that the implication of TIM's speech/dialog/suicide not being real is my one regret about believing IT. It's one of the most powerful dialogs in the trilogy, IMO. I guess we can still consider it "real" in the fact that it happened in Shepard's head, but I thought it was a great way to wrap up TIM's character. Who knows though, maybe the EC would bring about an even better end for TIM.

Actually, I came back just to throw out an idea to be considered. What if Anderson and TIM were also in the same hallucination as Shepard? And I mean like the actual psyches all had a shared dream, Inception style. I never really bought that Anderson and TIM were 'parts/representations' of Shepard's psyche in that scene. There's no precedent for dreams acting that way in the games.

Why put them all in a dream? Because they were all presumably in the same vicinity, and the reapers could want all of them indoctrinated. Remember that TIM still doesn't view the reapers as allies/masters and that how he apparently ticked off the reapers on Sanctuary. There's still room to indoctrinate him.

I know it's weak, and it's borne from a fanboyish desire but, well, sue me. I think it could warrant analysis. And with that I bid you all good night.

Stay strong. Hold the line.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 05 mai 2012 - 05:37 .

[Big Bad]

balance5050 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

What's up folks? I just got back from watching the Avengers, and all I have to say is this: Hulk renegade interrupt for the mother****ing win!

If you've seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I mean.

I think I know what you're talking about, I laughed so hard!!!

Seriously, I haven't laughed that hard in a really long time.  The whole theater burst into laughter and applause during that scene - it was sort of magical (but not of the space variety!).

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Can't Shepard tell the Reapers to go into a sun in the control ending?

If you believe you can control anything after you die then sure!

The control ending is really weird.

Shepard basically becomes the new Catalyst, but unless the Catalyst just hates Sovereign and didnt want to help him, it cant open or close the Citadel's arms.

Makes you wonder why the arms close in Control.

Who closed them?

It's the same reason why the keepers stand out to me so much. The Protheans reprogrammed the keepers to not respond to reaper signals, so they get to work on making a reaper? Yet another thing that makes ME1 meaningless if we take the endings at face value.

Modifié par balance5050, 05 mai 2012 - 05:36 .

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

What's up folks? I just got back from watching the Avengers, and all I have to say is this: Hulk renegade interrupt for the mother****ing win!

If you've seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I mean.

I think I know what you're talking about, I laughed so hard!!!

Speaking of superheroes, last night I was talking with my friend about superheroes.

I told him I dont consider Batman or Ironman to be superheroes, since they dont have any superpowers.

He disagreed.

I still maintain I am technically correct (the best kind of correct.)

[Boradam]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I can honestly say that the implication of TIM's speech/dialog/suicide not being real is my one regret about believing IT. It's one of the most powerful dialogs in the trilogy, IMO. I guess we can still consider it "real" in the fact that it happened in Shepard's head, but I thought it was a great way to wrap up TIM's character. Who knows though, maybe the EC would bring about an even better end for TIM.

Actually, I came back just to throw out an idea to be considered. What if Anderson and TIM were also in the same hallucination as Shepard? And I mean like the actual psyches all had a shared dream, Inception style. Why? Because they were all presumably in the same vicinity, and the reapers could want all of them indoctrinated. (Remember that TIM still doesn't view the reapers as allies/masters and that how he apparently ticked off the reapers on Sanctuary. There's still room to indoctrinate him.)

I know it's weak, and it's borne from a fanboyish desire but, well, sue me. I think it could warrant analysis.

I don't think it'd have been likely for Anderson to be part of it but I would consider TIM and Shepard being in a shared dream/hallucination a possibility. I can't recall anything pointing to a conclusion such as that, buuut then again I'm flipping tired.

[HellishFiend]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I can honestly say that the implication of TIM's speech/dialog/suicide not being real is my one regret about believing IT. It's one of the most powerful dialogs in the trilogy, IMO. I guess we can still consider it "real" in the fact that it happened in Shepard's head, but I thought it was a great way to wrap up TIM's character. Who knows though, maybe the EC would bring about an even better end for TIM.

Actually, I came back just to throw out an idea to be considered. What if Anderson and TIM were also in the same hallucination as Shepard? And I mean like the actual psyches all had a shared dream, Inception style. Why? Because they were all presumably in the same vicinity, and the reapers could want all of them indoctrinated. (Remember that TIM still doesn't view the reapers as allies/masters and that how he apparently ticked off the reapers on Sanctuary. There's still room to indoctrinate him.)

I know it's weak, and it's borne from a fanboyish desire but, well, sue me. I think it could warrant analysis.

It's only "weak" because we have no evidence to back it up. It's still possible, though. Like a said a few dozen pages ago, we need to keep the crazy ideas coming, if for no other reason than to have as many chances as possible to get some of them right. 

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

What's up folks? I just got back from watching the Avengers, and all I have to say is this: Hulk renegade interrupt for the mother****ing win!

If you've seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I mean.

I think I know what you're talking about, I laughed so hard!!!

Speaking of superheroes, last night I was talking with my friend about superheroes.

I told him I dont consider Batman or Ironman to be superheroes, since they dont have any superpowers.

He disagreed.

I still maintain I am technically correct (the best kind of correct.)

Meh, they each have "super" intelligence.

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Speaking of superheroes, last night I was talking with my friend about superheroes.

I told him I dont consider Batman or Ironman to be superheroes, since they dont have any superpowers.

He disagreed.

I still maintain I am technically correct (the best kind of correct.)

Meh, they each have "super" intelligence.

Thats not a super power though, unless it was caused by like gamma radiation, or a mutation.

They're just smart.

[HellishFiend]

Boradam wrote...

byne wrote...

Boradam wrote...

Ah well, that's a shame somewhat, but he was still in contact with it nonetheless and I can still think and believe he was slightly indoctrinated to a small enough, but still large enough extent when he came into contact with it for him to start on the path to joining the path of Reaperdom.

I havent actually read the comics, but I thought Saren was indoctrinated sometime after 2165, since he first learned about Sovereign in Revelation, and used data he stole to locate it sometime after the events of the book

TIM didn't yet know of the Reapers after contact with the Indoctrination device (I think) so it could be he was indoctrinated before encountering Sovereign but it was subtle enough for him to be his own person but not enough to start helping the Reapers, but after encountering Sovereign it (the indoctrination) would have grown stronger.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized I made a mistake in my earlier post before this, so if you noticed it this post should clear it up a bit. Fairly tired, but I must hold the line.

Both Saren and TIM indirectly (there's that word again...) knew of the reapers because of the events in Evolution. In TIM's own words:

"There is something out there to protect Humanity against. ....  A dark time is coming. Humanity will be tested. And while we may not know who is doing the testing, or why - we must meet the challenge..."

[Boradam]

HellishFiend wrote...

Boradam wrote...

byne wrote...

Boradam wrote...

Ah well, that's a shame somewhat, but he was still in contact with it nonetheless and I can still think and believe he was slightly indoctrinated to a small enough, but still large enough extent when he came into contact with it for him to start on the path to joining the path of Reaperdom.

I havent actually read the comics, but I thought Saren was indoctrinated sometime after 2165, since he first learned about Sovereign in Revelation, and used data he stole to locate it sometime after the events of the book

TIM didn't yet know of the Reapers after contact with the Indoctrination device (I think) so it could be he was indoctrinated before encountering Sovereign but it was subtle enough for him to be his own person but not enough to start helping the Reapers, but after encountering Sovereign it (the indoctrination) would have grown stronger.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized I made a mistake in my earlier post before this, so if you noticed it this post should clear it up a bit. Fairly tired, but I must hold the line.

Both Saren and TIM indirectly (there's that word again...) knew of the reapers because of the events in Evolution. In TIM's own words:

"There is something out there to protect Humanity against. ....  A dark time is coming. Humanity will be tested. And while we may not know who is doing the testing, or why - we must meet the challenge..."

Sorry about that, missed the big point and clue there.  It's sleepy time... I'll theorize and look like a fool later.

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Speaking of superheroes, last night I was talking with my friend about superheroes.

I told him I dont consider Batman or Ironman to be superheroes, since they dont have any superpowers.

He disagreed.

I still maintain I am technically correct (the best kind of correct.)

Meh, they each have "super" intelligence.

Thats not a super power though, unless it was caused by like gamma radiation, or a mutation.

They're just smart.

What would they be classified as then? I think if you train enough you can enter that realm of "super". Hawk Eye is only human as well, but he trained and there for "always hits his target" which is basically his super power. Iron Man has the arch reactor and basically augmented his own heart, it's mentioned that it could keep his heart beating for 150 years.

Is it not possible to become "super" with enough standard training and fortitude?

Modifié par balance5050, 05 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[Ultra Prism]

Indoc theory not much related discussion lol

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Speaking of superheroes, last night I was talking with my friend about superheroes.

I told him I dont consider Batman or Ironman to be superheroes, since they dont have any superpowers.

He disagreed.

I still maintain I am technically correct (the best kind of correct.)

Meh, they each have "super" intelligence.

Thats not a super power though, unless it was caused by like gamma radiation, or a mutation.

They're just smart.

What would they be classified as then? I think if you train enough you can enter that realm of "super". Hawk Eye is only human as well, but he trained and there for "always hits his target" which is basically his super power. Iron Man has the arch reactor and basically augmented his own heart, it's mentioned that it could keep his heart beating for 150 years.

Is it not possible to become "super" with enough standard training and fortitude?

Not in my opinion, no.

If you dont hve super powers, you're just a hero.

Dont get me wrong though, I'm more impressed by Batman and Ironman, because they manage to not be outshone by people with actual super powers, even though they're just regular humans.

If anything not having super powers makes them more interesting as characters.

It isnt like with Super Man who has tons of super powers, and was born to be a hero, these guys worked their way up to it.

[byne]

Anyhow, its almost 2am here. Gonna go to sleep.

[balance5050]

night all!

[BatmanTurian]

for those who care to look, some new (or rather, old) evidence from the books for IT.

[Arian Dynas]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I can honestly say that the implication of TIM's speech/dialog/suicide not being real is my one regret about believing IT. It's one of the most powerful dialogs in the trilogy, IMO. I guess we can still consider it "real" in the fact that it happened in Shepard's head, but I thought it was a great way to wrap up TIM's character. Who knows though, maybe the EC would bring about an even better end for TIM.

Actually, I came back just to throw out an idea to be considered. What if Anderson and TIM were also in the same hallucination as Shepard? And I mean like the actual psyches all had a shared dream, Inception style. I never really bought that Anderson and TIM were 'parts/representations' of Shepard's psyche in that scene. There's no precedent for dreams acting that way in the games.

Why put them all in a dream? Because they were all presumably in the same vicinity, and the reapers could want all of them indoctrinated. Remember that TIM still doesn't view the reapers as allies/masters and that how he apparently ticked off the reapers on Sanctuary. There's still room to indoctrinate him.

I know it's weak, and it's borne from a fanboyish desire but, well, sue me. I think it could warrant analysis. And with that I bid you all good night.

Stay strong. Hold the line.

It's not a BAD thought, but I can poke one hole in this, there is a precedent, the Kid is entirely symbolic and allegorical.