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[Gilgamesh117]

Anything new chaps?

[Stigweird85]

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

Anything new chaps?

Nothing too critical I don't think, but I've missed big chunks over the last few weeks

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Hmm, let me get this straight. You're fine with believing that TIM's Reaper implants can indoctrinate and control someone, with very little evidence for it? But you find IT unlikely despite all the possible evidence we discovered?

In all honesty, I don't want to get into a slugging match with you saying "there's lots of evidence for IT" and me saying," there isn't very much at all". It's unproductive. But to answer your point, we know that TIM with Cerberus have been studying the effects of indoctrination. We know that TIM has implants, which are strongly implied to be of Reaper design. We don't know there actual capability until we seen them in action during the Shephard/Anderson/TIM scene, where they appear to have the ability to partly control, even indoctrinate others (which is not strange considering that Reaper tech is know for its indoctrinating properties). Therefore, there really isn't a massive leap in logic that has to be applied IMO

I didn't say that, I was quoteing the guy talking to you and talking to him underneath that quote. He was saying that. Don't be trigger happy.

[Fnordamatic]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Mass Effect is awesome because, while Shepard is a hero, he's not a "chosen one", there's no prophecy about him and the Reapers, there's no higher powers either helping or hindering him. There's no "destiny" in Mass Effect. He's not Anakin Skywalker, Frodo Baggins, Neo, Harry Potter. He's Shepard.

Oh, I'm not so sure about that. I think Shepard fits the "chosen one" archetype pretty well actually. From the moment he had psychic contact with the Prothean device on Eden Prime, his destiny was activated. The Protheans were his "Higher Power", and arguably even the Reapers!

In fact, I have been wondering about this idea for a while now. Consider the fact that the Reapers were basically responsible for the actions of Cerberus/Illusive Man. With this in mind, you are inexorably drawn to the idea that the Reapers (through Illusive Man) were responsible for Shepard's resurrection! (hmm... coming back from the dead? Sounds like a "Chosen One" to me!)

Now, why would the Reapers want that? You'd think they would be happy to have their greatest enemy dead. But apparently not. Now, either this is a massive plot hole, or there is something more to it.... Could it be that the Reapers WANT Shepard to reach his final goal? Do they, perhaps, seek out the strongest organics and incorporate them into their operating structure? Is that what the Star Child really is?

What I'm suggesting is that Shepard's entire adventure through the Mass Effect trilogy was a sort of test to see if he was worthy to control the fate of organic life! There may have been other candidates for the job (Saren and Illusive Man spring to mind), but Shepard was "The One."

If Shepard opts to control the Reapers, then they would be altered by the essence of what he is (and I'm betting he would become a glowing blue Casper just like Star Kid).

As many people have pointed out, it doesn't make any sense for Star Kid to say the Reapers are necessary to control the balance of organic and synthetic life because the Geth and Quarians have clearly displayed that it IS possible for them to cooperate. However, maybe this cooperation is the first time it has ever occurred, which would make it new information to Star Kid/Reapers, and thus something they had no parameters to deal with. And of course, what was the catalyst to instigate this new-found understanding between organics and synthetics? SHEPARD!

Thus making him the perfect candidate to take control and initiate the new age of the Reapers.

[DJBare]

robdunnhill wrote...

DJBare wrote...

XwebraiderX wrote...

I've come to realize that they can do what they want - if they stick with the Starbrat and the stupid idea to introduce him 2 minutes before the game is over the ending is ruined for me, no matter how much explanations they add. It just remains bad.

The only way for me to get a new point of view on this is if they would implement the IT. Note that I dont like the IT because the fans had to come up with it, there is no way BW had this brilliant idea. But if they would give it a try thats the only way I could change my mind about the ending in a major way because it would be a whole different story.

From the Final Hours app

nice, I wish EA would hurry up and comment if the indoc thoery will happen

It's a very good application, gives a lot of insight into the developement of the franchise starting from ME1, I do recommend it, as they say "information is power"

Modifié par DJBare, 05 mai 2012 - 02:24 .

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Hmm, let me get this straight. You're fine with believing that TIM's Reaper implants can indoctrinate and control someone, with very little evidence for it? But you find IT unlikely despite all the possible evidence we discovered?

In all honesty, I don't want to get into a slugging match with you saying "there's lots of evidence for IT" and me saying," there isn't very much at all". It's unproductive. But to answer your point, we know that TIM with Cerberus have been studying the effects of indoctrination. We know that TIM has implants, which are strongly implied to be of Reaper design. We don't know there actual capability until we seen them in action during the Shephard/Anderson/TIM scene, where they appear to have the ability to partly control, even indoctrinate others (which is not strange considering that Reaper tech is know for its indoctrinating properties). Therefore, there really isn't a massive leap in logic that has to be applied IMO

I didn't say that, I was quoteing the guy talking to you and talking to him underneath that quote. He was saying that. Don't be trigger happy.

Yes, sorry, it was someone else. I will change it if you want

[Rosewind]

BELIEVE in ..... space Jesus?

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Hmm, let me get this straight. You're fine with believing that TIM's Reaper implants can indoctrinate and control someone, with very little evidence for it? But you find IT unlikely despite all the possible evidence we discovered?

In all honesty, I don't want to get into a slugging match with you saying "there's lots of evidence for IT" and me saying," there isn't very much at all". It's unproductive. But to answer your point, we know that TIM with Cerberus have been studying the effects of indoctrination. We know that TIM has implants, which are strongly implied to be of Reaper design. We don't know there actual capability until we seen them in action during the Shephard/Anderson/TIM scene, where they appear to have the ability to partly control, even indoctrinate others (which is not strange considering that Reaper tech is know for its indoctrinating properties). Therefore, there really isn't a massive leap in logic that has to be applied IMO

I didn't say that, I was quoteing the guy talking to you and talking to him underneath that quote. He was saying that. Don't be trigger happy.

Yes, sorry, it was someone else. I will change it if you want

Nah it's fine. I make mistakes too. maybe just edit it so you're talking to the guy who said it.

[BatmanTurian]

reposting for justice : Some evidence from Retribution for IT.

[blooregard]

Anything interesting?

[MaximizedAction]

So why do you guys think Bioware made your third squadmate stepping out after the crashlanding (in a Control/Synthesis ending) so hidden?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 05 mai 2012 - 02:45 .

[DJBare]

What some folk appear to miss, Bioware were in the best position to indoctrinate it's fan base and reading these forum's they still are in a good position, before the broken promises most of us took what Bioware stated at face value, even now the pro-enders themselves prefer to go with Bioware's take on things almost without question, the irony is that's how indoctrination works, you stop questioning and just accept.

[Rosewind]

To focus on Edi and Joker?

[Ch1m3Ra]

DJBare wrote...

What some folk appear to miss, Bioware were in the best position to indoctrinate it's fan base and reading these forum's they still are in a good position, before the broken promises most of us took what Bioware stated at face value, even now the pro-enders themselves prefer to go with Bioware's take on things almost without question, the irony is that's how indoctrination works, you stop questioning and just accept.

Yup. I'm thinking that the EC will be very polished actually. A substantial amount of content. One that really shows your War Assets in action. Perhaps they will even show the ex and current normandy crew rallying together at the final push.

[blooregard]

 Where was I for this?

[DirtyPhoenix]

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

I thought because I persued a renegade path than my heart was "beset with wickedness". Do paragon sheps get the same lines? Thats very weird then..

[Rosewind]

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

In the bathroom?

[MaximizedAction]

DJBare wrote...

What some folk appear to miss, Bioware were in the best position to indoctrinate it's fan base and reading these forum's they still are in a good position, before the broken promises most of us took what Bioware stated at face value, even now the pro-enders themselves prefer to go with Bioware's take on things almost without question, the irony is that's how indoctrination works, you stop questioning and just accept.

So, assuming Bioware's goal has indeed been to indoctrinate us, the players, showing more squadmates exiting the Normandy would strengthen our belief in the ending. That's because, even with a sudden story leap from your squadmates beside you to: them on the Normandy, them ALL being there is more conclusive than only one of the two being there. But then, they should've placed it in a more visible way.
One only sees the hidden squadmate when in speculation-mode studies the ending more carefully and in a possible EC scenario where, for clarification, we're pointed towards him/her.

On the other hand, putting only one squadmate there for the 'Destroy'ers makes the them even more suspicious towards the ending.

So, those who got indoctrinated remain in their belief and have less reason to doubt it, those who stayed strong and focused on their initial goal and broke free have more evidence on their hand.

Clever girl, Bioware!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 05 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

[blooregard]

pirate1802 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

I thought because I persued a renegade path than my heart was "beset with wickedness". Do paragon sheps get the same lines? Thats very weird then..

Paragons get the same lines...but this does not hint towards indoctrination in the slightest
Only crazy people think a religious prayer is proof of the illuminati and this is no different.

Rosewind wrote...

In the bathroom?

Likely story.

Modifié par blooregard, 05 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

[BatmanTurian]

pirate1802 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

I thought because I persued a renegade path than my heart was "beset with wickedness". Do paragon sheps get the same lines? Thats very weird then..

Yeah I had a primarily paragon but paragrade Shep ( That admiral got punched HARD for great justice and I sent the f*cker off my ship. I also killed the batarian mechanic in ME2 on Omega) and I still had this dialogue. It can be interpreted different ways. He definitely means dealing with the Reapers is a test and Shepard's mind and heart must be protected by his goddess. So sad that he never got to see Shepard's victory.

[Unschuld]

robdunnhill wrote...

nice, I wish EA would hurry up and comment if the indoc thoery will happen

Not going to happen. At least, i hope not. If things go well, in my mind at least, we won't find out in indoc theory is definitively true or not until the Extended Content comes out. Granted at this point it would be less of a surprise after digesting this theory, but I still don't want to know anything definite about what's really going to happen until it does. It would be nice however if they keep releasing vague and subtle hints through ANN etc leading up to it.

[nicethugbert]

Rosewind wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

You people just don't get it. The entire galaxy was turned into the reaper's farm a long long time ago. They stashed their tech every where. Everyone uses it every day. The relays, the citadel, it's all reaper tech. Everyone is indoctrinated. The entire simplistic paragon/renegade morality system is reaper indoctrination. Everyone is set up to travel along the paths that the reapers choose, whether they know it, like it, or not.

Try disproving that!

What exactly are we meant to be disproving in your argument?

Ha!  You're stumped!  Don't know where to begin!

[MaximizedAction]

blooregard wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

I thought because I persued a renegade path than my heart was "beset with wickedness". Do paragon sheps get the same lines? Thats very weird then..

Paragons get the same lines...but this does not hint towards indoctrination in the slightest
Only crazy people think a religious prayer is proof of the illuminati and this is no different.

Rosewind wrote...

In the bathroom?

Likely story.

At this point I don't think that we can say for sure whether or not our squadmates secretly sense that something might be wrong with Shepard.
Maybe that's why they're all relatively quiet during the "Priority: Earth", i.e. no usual squad-banter.

[BatmanTurian]

blooregard wrote...

Paragons get the same lines...but this does not hint towards indoctrination in the slightest
Only crazy people think a religious prayer is proof of the illuminati and this is no different.

Bloo, you are forgetting that this is a story and each line and scene is crafted by somebody conciously. In the real world, things happen randomly for no purpose, but in a story every scene and every line is designed that way purposefully. Therefore, this isn't Jerry Fallwell making a prayer for rain. This is a character in a story making a statement purposely written by somebody to be signifigant.

You're falling into the same trap literalists fall into when they say we are religious and conspiracy nuts.

[Rosewind]

BatmanTurian wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

 Where was I for this?

I thought because I persued a renegade path than my heart was "beset with wickedness". Do paragon sheps get the same lines? Thats very weird then..

Yeah I had a primarily paragon but paragrade Shep ( That admiral got punched HARD for great justice and I sent the f*cker off my ship. I also killed the batarian mechanic in ME2 on Omega) and I still had this dialogue. It can be interpreted different ways. He definitely means dealing with the Reapers is a test and Shepard's mind and heart must be protected by his goddess. So sad that he never got to see Shepard's victory.

Hehehe I didn't choose the renegade option for that convo for the admiral till the 3rd play through, lets just say I was delighted by it