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Boradam wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
He did, that's been confirmed, no need to bother. He's had those eyes since the indoctrination device.
Wait, HellishFiend said he did not appear appear to have his indoctrinated eyes yet from his indirect contact. Are you sure now?
byne wrote...
jkthunder wrote...
This has to do with some things that have been rolling through my mind lately, namely Liara. I'm going to go ahead and guess she has been discussed here already, but it did just occur to me that if indoctrination can occur as proximity exposure, then I'm thinking Liara, the quintessential Prothean researcher and artifact hunter has surely got to be high on the "likely to be indoctrinated" list?
Why would prothean artifacts indoctrinate her?
Modifié par jkthunder, 05 mai 2012 - 08:45 .
balance5050 wrote...
If anyone feels like debating IT with some misinformed kids, go here:
http://social.biowar...294/12#11887300
HellishFiend wrote...
Boradam wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
He did, that's been confirmed, no need to bother. He's had those eyes since the indoctrination device.
Wait, HellishFiend said he did not appear appear to have his indoctrinated eyes yet from his indirect contact. Are you sure now?
For comparison:
Both of these images are from the end of the comics, after both had their "indirect" exposure to the indoctrination device.
MaximizedAction wrote...
It seems to me like for the 'non-casual’ ME fans indoctrination should be nearly obvious in Control/Synthesis. Maybe, if I'd read the comics and books beforehand, a possibly indoctrinated Shepard might've crossed my mind without IT...thus avoiding all the unneccessary frustration.
byne wrote...
Its like if I left 100 dollars in the middle of a busy street, and shot everyone who tried to pick it up, claiming I was stopping them from being hit by a car.
Sure, I could just not have put the money there in the first place, thus leaving them no reason to try and go into the street, but that would be too logical.
Rosewind wrote...
nicethugbert wrote...
Rosewind wrote...
nicethugbert wrote...
blooregard wrote...
nicethugbert wrote...
Rosewind wrote...
nicethugbert wrote...
You people just don't get it. The entire galaxy was turned into the reaper's farm a long long time ago. They stashed their tech every where. Everyone uses it every day. The relays, the citadel, it's all reaper tech. Everyone is indoctrinated. The entire simplistic paragon/renegade morality system is reaper indoctrination. Everyone is set up to travel along the paths that the reapers choose, whether they know it, like it, or not.
Try disproving that!
What exactly are we meant to be disproving in your argument?
Ha! You're stumped! Don't know where to begin!
The Reapers are smart to say the least they leave behind a few devices for people to find so they get indoctrinated studying such an interesting artifact. The citadel and mass relays don't indoctrinate they were designed to be found by organic races which then believe they were left behind by the race that came before them.
Assuming the Reapers get their sentience from the intelligence of the processed organics if the citadel and the mass relays were to indoctrinate by the time the Reapers invaded everyone would be a brain dead meat puppet meaning that the Reapers would probably be no smarter than an advanced VI.
tl;dr if the citadel and mass relays indoctrinated we'd know it.
You are thinking of gross, obvious, indoctrination, not the suble well placed, well timed, kind.
And, they didn't leave behind a few peices. They leave behind a lot of tech. The fact that it is light years ahead of anything anybody has by the time they find it means that people spend time researching ways to use it and interface with it, extend onto it, than ways to replace it. Then, the reapers turn it off and everybody is left behind.
Umm okay we know this, so are you for or against the theory? Cause you not stating anything for or against it at all just telling us stuff we already know.
Don't the facts speak for themselves?
EH what facts? Telling us that all reaper items indoctrinate isn't anything new. So I am just going to ignore you.
MegumiAzusa wrote...
She definitely is.
Her comments in the beginning and the end could support this quite well if seen in that context. Could be nothing but it also might be a hint, that's the hard part about indoctrination, it's the little things until it's too late.
Even though Tali was in quite a number of missions her dialogue has quite a stark contrast to that.
byne wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
Hmm remembering someone here saying the Citadel might indoctrinate everyone, and considering how the affects of very slow indoctrination worked on Saren (got super pro Turian) and TIM (pro Human / Cerberus) it is quite noticeable how each councilor but the most recent, Udina, is only looking out for the respective race.
They come around at some point eventually but as indoctrination works to let them think they are in control, it is subtly changing their priorities to something different so they realize what to do only as their worlds are about to fall. Also note how the Salarians with the weakest military strength and in any case useless to the Reapers, as stated by Harbinger, try to persuade you to take them over the Krogan who got quite the strength and are the cause that defeated Nazara's first attempt with the Rachni.
Udina is looking out for his race more than any of the others combined. He literally tries to pull a coup so he can assume emergency powers and order the Citadel fleets to Earth.
Modifié par paxxton, 05 mai 2012 - 08:47 .
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
It seems to me like for the 'non-casual’ ME fans indoctrination should be nearly obvious in Control/Synthesis. Maybe, if I'd read the comics and books beforehand, a possibly indoctrinated Shepard might've crossed my mind without IT...thus avoiding all the unneccessary frustration.
Indeed. Being familiar with all of the ME canon certainly lends itself well to a natural suspicion of some kind of indoctrination process.
Modifié par MaximizedAction, 05 mai 2012 - 08:44 .
jkthunder wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
She definitely is.
Her comments in the beginning and the end could support this quite well if seen in that context. Could be nothing but it also might be a hint, that's the hard part about indoctrination, it's the little things until it's too late.
Even though Tali was in quite a number of missions her dialogue has quite a stark contrast to that.
Her comments could be perceived as such, and the more I think about it, the more I remember how big her contributions were to getting the Crucible up and running. Also makes me think about how indoctrination could effect both races and individuals differently in the subtle stages.
Modifié par HellishFiend, 05 mai 2012 - 08:49 .
nicethugbert wrote...
*snip*
Don't play "what facts" with me, missy! The Facts! They are the Proof!
MaximizedAction wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
It seems to me like for the 'non-casual’ ME fans indoctrination should be nearly obvious in Control/Synthesis. Maybe, if I'd read the comics and books beforehand, a possibly indoctrinated Shepard might've crossed my mind without IT...thus avoiding all the unneccessary frustration.
Indeed. Being familiar with all of the ME canon certainly lends itself well to a natural suspicion of some kind of indoctrination process.
Well, I was certainly suspicious of indoc. Not because I expected it from the first frame of ME3 on, but rather came indirectly after NOT having any in-game discussion about how the characters most dearest to Shep might be indoc.
It is mentioned ingame, but only the 'bad'/shady guys maybe being indoc.. But the 'good' guys are spared?
B*tch, please...
Modifié par HellishFiend, 05 mai 2012 - 08:56 .
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Guys I just though of something. In the ME3 ending we need someone to get onboard the Citadel and open it...so can anyone ask me why we did not use the Conduit again? You know just ignore the dangerous and Reaper infested streets of London and go for the backdoor?
Unless off course it was destroyed by the Reapers, that would make sense if they now knew about it...but it is not even mentioned...
Anyone got an answer?
HellishFiend wrote...
Though, I hesitate to believe that Liara could be so severely indoctrinated indocrinated as to be so blatantly furthering the reaper's plans at that point in the story.
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
It seems to me like for the 'non-casual’ ME fans indoctrination should be nearly obvious in Control/Synthesis. Maybe, if I'd read the comics and books beforehand, a possibly indoctrinated Shepard might've crossed my mind without IT...thus avoiding all the unneccessary frustration.
Indeed. Being familiar with all of the ME canon certainly lends itself well to a natural suspicion of some kind of indoctrination process.
Well, I was certainly suspicious of indoc. Not because I expected it from the first frame of ME3 on, but rather came indirectly after NOT having any in-game discussion about how the characters most dearest to Shep might be indoc.
It is mentioned ingame, but only the 'bad'/shady guys maybe being indoc.. But the 'good' guys are spared?
B*tch, please...
The closest we get to that is the VS (Ashley at least, not sure about Kaiden) briefly mentioning her concern over not knowing who could possible be indoctrinated just before you have the chance to recruit him/her to the Normandy. It does seem strangely convenient that the only one to voice concern over it is the one who was not present with Shepard in any way during ME2 and has probably had the least amount of contact with Reaper tech among anyone in the crew (except for perhaps Vega).
jkthunder wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Though, I hesitate to believe that Liara could be so severely indoctrinated as to be so blatantly furthering the reaper's plans at that point in the story.
Right. It is just kind of tangential speculation. I wasn't thinking Liara would have been severely indoctrinated, but more of a secondary and very subtle kind if at all. Basically another able candidate in line to perhaps help bolster the indoctrination of Shepard... sort of like how Benezia supported Saren.
Modifié par HellishFiend, 05 mai 2012 - 08:53 .
byne wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Guys I just though of something. In the ME3 ending we need someone to get onboard the Citadel and open it...so can anyone ask me why we did not use the Conduit again? You know just ignore the dangerous and Reaper infested streets of London and go for the backdoor?
Unless off course it was destroyed by the Reapers, that would make sense if they now knew about it...but it is not even mentioned...
Anyone got an answer?
I assume it is no longer functional. You had that timer you had to beat to get to the Conduit before it shut down in ME1, remember?
Dwailing wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
The closest we get to that is the VS (Ashley at least, not sure about Kaiden) briefly mentioning her concern over not knowing who could possibly be indoctrinated just before you have the chance to recruit him/her to the Normandy. It does seem strangely convenient that the only one to voice concern over it is the one who was not present with Shepard in any way during ME2 and has probably had the least amount of contact with Reaper tech among anyone in the crew (except for perhaps Vega).
And Vega had that famous line about the hum. A line that is never heard again after that point (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) It sounds like the people who have limited contact with Shepard, relatively speaking, of course, are the people who bring up the most interesting bits of dialogue (At least for the purposes of IT).
HellishFiend wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
The closest we get to that is the VS (Ashley at least, not sure about Kaiden) briefly mentioning her concern over not knowing who could possibly be indoctrinated just before you have the chance to recruit him/her to the Normandy. It does seem strangely convenient that the only one to voice concern over it is the one who was not present with Shepard in any way during ME2 and has probably had the least amount of contact with Reaper tech among anyone in the crew (except for perhaps Vega).
And Vega had that famous line about the hum. A line that is never heard again after that point (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) It sounds like the people who have limited contact with Shepard, relatively speaking, of course, are the people who bring up the most interesting bits of dialogue (At least for the purposes of IT).
No one else mentions the hum, nor does Shepard respond to Vega when he mentions it. He essentially shrugs and walks off without a word. And you cant defend that from a gameplay perspective and say that he doesnt usually respond to those random non-dialog comments, because there are tons of occassions where Shepard gets into a conversation in those non-dialog sequences.
Arian Dynas wrote...
nicethugbert wrote...
*snip*
Don't play "what facts" with me, missy! The Facts! They are the Proof!
You mind explaining for us... PROOF OF WHAT?!?!?!
nicethugbert wrote...
You want answers?
Arian Dynas wrote...
I want the proof!
nicethugbert wrote...
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE PROOF
Modifié par Simon_Says, 05 mai 2012 - 09:07 .
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