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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#51776
MegumiAzusa

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lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, no matter what, the Extended Content had damned well better include the cut Geth Prime and Jack dialogue from London.


WHAT THE ****? WHY WOULD ANYONE CUT THIS STUFF?


Posted Image

Same with the Anderson dialogue :o

btw uploading, ~10 min remaining + a bit encoding from YT.

#51777
byne

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lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, no matter what, the Extended Content had damned well better include the cut Geth Prime and Jack dialogue from London.


WHAT THE ****? WHY WOULD ANYONE CUT THIS STUFF?
 
*snip*


Seriously. I mean I can understand cutting Jacob's stuff, since its just Jacob, and his lines are ridiculously silly, but this stuff?

I dont even

#51778
Auralius Carolus

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byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, no matter what, the Extended Content had damned well better include the cut Geth Prime and Jack dialogue from London.


WHAT THE ****? WHY WOULD ANYONE CUT THIS STUFF?
 
*snip*


Seriously. I mean I can understand cutting Jacob's stuff, since its just Jacob, and his lines are ridiculously silly, but this stuff?

I dont even


Jacob gets no love. Even Fate hates him.

#51779
lex0r11

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The more cut content I find, the more I realize how great the endgame could've been.

I'm so sad.

#51780
byne

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lex0r11 wrote...

The more cut content I find, the more I realize how great the endgame could've been.

I'm so sad.


Yknow, with them just relegating all your former squad to hologram convos, why couldnt they have thrown Spacer Shep's mom in there as a call I can make?

I'm fairly certain Shep would rather say goodbye to her mom than talk to Jacob one last time.

#51781
estebanus

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lex0r11 wrote...

The more cut content I find, the more I realize how great the endgame could've been.

I'm so sad.



Maybe the EC will include all those cut segments!

#51782
D.Sharrah

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byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

The more cut content I find, the more I realize how great the endgame could've been.

I'm so sad.


Yknow, with them just relegating all your former squad to hologram convos, why couldnt they have thrown Spacer Shep's mom in there as a call I can make?

I'm fairly certain Shep would rather say goodbye to her mom than talk to Jacob one last time.



Probably cause they would have to give her a face...and you know how much flak they have gotten over Tali's face...I can just see the same with Mom Shep...maybe too much variation in character creation to come up with a plausible looking Mom for all the possible Shep's out there (unless they do a retcon and say that Shep was adopted Posted Image)

#51783
Simon_Says

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byne wrote...

Yknow, with them just relegating all your former squad to hologram convos, why couldnt they have thrown Spacer Shep's mom in there as a call I can make?

I'm fairly certain Shep would rather say goodbye to her mom than talk to Jacob one last time.


Especially for a Femshep who romanced him in 2 only to get dumped. <_<

#51784
byne

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D.Sharrah wrote...


Probably cause they would have to give her a face...and you know how much flak they have gotten over Tali's face...I can just see the same with Mom Shep...maybe too much variation in character creation to come up with a plausible looking Mom for all the possible Shep's out there (unless they do a retcon and say that Shep was adopted Posted Image)


I doubt its the character creation thing, seeing as how in DA2 Carver, Bethany, and Hawke's mom all look different based on what your Hawke looks like.

#51785
estebanus

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Well, I'll be going to bed now, see you all laters!

#51786
MegumiAzusa

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So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.

#51787
Auralius Carolus

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Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, with them just relegating all your former squad to hologram convos, why couldnt they have thrown Spacer Shep's mom in there as a call I can make?

I'm fairly certain Shep would rather say goodbye to her mom than talk to Jacob one last time.


Especially for a Femshep who romanced him in 2 only to get dumped. <_<


There should be a Renegade interupt that trolls Jacob by mentioning child support. The most epic pale-as-a-ghost jaw drop of all ME time.

#51788
byne

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Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, with them just relegating all your former squad to hologram convos, why couldnt they have thrown Spacer Shep's mom in there as a call I can make?

I'm fairly certain Shep would rather say goodbye to her mom than talk to Jacob one last time.


Especially for a Femshep who romanced him in 2 only to get dumped. <_<


Shep: How long have you known Brynn?
Jacob: Guess I've known her for about a year now.
Me: Wait, Shep was only detained for 6 months...


Also, Brynn is kind of weird.

>Steal Shepard's boyfriend
>Tell her to her face about how you did it and dont regret it
>Plan to name child after Shepard

Seriously, Brynn?

#51789
HellishFiend

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D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

To those that had questions regarding how IT could strengthen the "Saren/Shepard MIrror" theme...i don't think that it is possible to do simply, but I will try.

To this theme justice we have to look at its entire evolution. In ME 1 the game clearly sets up so that Shepard and Saren are rivals on a collision course. In fact many of Shepard's actions are in direct response to the allies that Saren is trying to bulid. Saren has a research base to study indoctrination and clone Krogans...Shepard blows it up. Saren leaves Geth littered through the galaxy to attempt to destroy any evidence to what he is doing - Shepard stops them and finds the evidence. This all comes down to a final confrontation where you are given the ability (whether paragon or renegade and have invested in the appropriate skills) to convince Saren that he is indoctrinated but that he can still fight the reapers...

In ME 2 you have a dual purpose, (in alot of ways stemming from the fact that it is the midle installment of a trilogy ) there is the self contained story of that chapter and the preparation for the final chapter. This can be seen in the fact that during you fight against the collector's you are given the choice to strengthen your position to be able to gain allies for the final fight against the Reapers. There are two very obvious choices that play a huge role and play directly into the theme being discussed. The first is a decison to cure the genophage, an act that could potentially strengthen an ally and your ability to negotiate for their aid. Do you remember that Saren was also working to create an army of Krogan? Coincidence, possible. But then you are giving the option to allow a Geth to join your squad and efforts to fight the Collectors/Reapers...a Geth that informs of you a split in their people - a split that has one side looking for their own future and one side siding with the Reapers. This Geth then asks for your help to stop the threat of those that would follow the Reapers, where ultimately you are again given a choice to potentially strengthen an ally and your position to negotiate for their aid. Can it be coincidence again that this ally just happens to be another that Saren himself recruited in his effort to have an army that would pave the way for the return of the reapers? By this point in ME 2 I was starting to see that Saren and Shepard were mirrors of each other - an interesting observational study on how two potentially divergent paths could lead to the same place.

Then we reach ME 3. How could this theme be strengthened? Is there any thing that Saren has faced that Shepard has not? They both were insanely talented soldiers that were recognized for those talents and recrutied to join the Spectres. They were both thrust into politically explosive situations with galactic implications. They both have recruited as allies the Krogan and the Geth. They both were exposed to reaper tech. But to this point, the major difference was that the Saren had succumbed to the dangers of being indoctrinated, while Shepard had shown no signs of it all. If we are to believe all of the information that is given to us in the lore (codex, etc.), then how can we so quickly dismiss the idea that Shepard (given the amount of contact that he has had with reaper tech) would not be subject to the same danger that Saren faced. In other words, thematically (given this mirror between the two) the fact that Shepard would face indoctrination at some point makes perfect sense.

So, if IT is true at the ending sequence of the game is Shepard's final breaking point where the Reapers finally put all of the effort in one last attempt to indoctrinate Shepard, the arc of the theme would be complete. Shepard would have done and faced everything that Saren had done and faced as well. Which if we look at the mirror as more of an example of Ying-Yang, then Shepard being able to somehow defeat the indoctrination attempt as the absolute best way to tie the theme together completely.

I hope that this explains a little more deeply, exactly what I meant when I said that IT would both be stregthened and supported (and conversely the opposite as well) by this theme.


I wanted to post this again...since it seems to be getting lost in some of the other conversations going on (great convos by the way). Posted Image


Seriously want to get some reaction to this...been brewing for awhile and want to see if anyone else feels this way...


I'm fairly sure it's deliberate that Shepard is faced with the same choices that captivated Saren and TIM. I dont think there have been many comments on your post because there isnt much to add to it. It's a pretty common sentiment among us here in this thread, actually. 

#51790
Auralius Carolus

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.


Mmkay. Am I missing something?

#51791
D.Sharrah

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.



Not sure...hear the difference b/w each NPC...but it could be just the differences in their personalities/experiences...

#51792
Simon_Says

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byne wrote...

Also, Brynn is kind of weird.

>Steal Shepard's boyfriend
>Tell her to her face about how you did it and dont regret it
>Plan to name child after Shepard

Seriously, Brynn?

Think of her more as FemHawke who ran and assumed a new identity and it makes total sense.

Maybe.

#51793
ZerebusPrime

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.


What am I looking for here?

#51794
Simon_Says

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.


Liara's dialogue is... well I think it sounds suspicious.

She's usually so much more emotive than that...

#51795
NeoDobby

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.


Hmm, observation: Liara, James and Ashley feel watched, the others don't. Those 3 and Javik are the ones that were not in the collector base with you. Javik could be a special case as he is a revived Prothean. Don't know. Does that help?

#51796
MegumiAzusa

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Especially the second part after climbing the ladder, Liara, Vega, and Ash all express the feeling of being watched.
We also know Vega hears unusual humming on the Normandy, Ash is questioning herself, and Liara seems pretty much odd in the whole scene.
Compared to Garrus, Tali, and Javik who are just disgusted.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 06 mai 2012 - 01:08 .


#51797
D.Sharrah

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[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[quote]D.Sharrah wrote...

snip...

[/quote]

Thanks for the response...just hadn't seen it discussed and it is really easy to lose what has/hasn't been discussed in here.  And since when I briefly mentioned the theme earlier, there was a question asked, I felt it deserved a full response.  Still it does feel godd that my feelings are validated by the fact that others have noticed the same thing...

#51798
Arian Dynas

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estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

The more cut content I find, the more I realize how great the endgame could've been.

I'm so sad.



Maybe the EC will include all those cut segments!


I don't doubt it will.

More than likely, it was cut so they could integrate it into the theoretical "Seige of Earth" DLC I figure they were planning.

#51799
lex0r11

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Simon_Says wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

So here it is.
Lined up all entries and then all short conversations when you climbed the ladder.


Liara's dialogue is... well I think it sounds suspicious.

She's usually so much more emotive than that...


She changed throughout the games.



Here a little exaggerated picture to help.

Posted Image

#51800
byne

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Why exactly upon first seeing the Crucible does the game do a close up of Shepard clenching her fist?

Thats usually just to indicate when Shep is angry and you're about to get a renegade interrupt of some sort.

Seems kind of out of place as a reaction to seeing the device thats supposed to save the day.