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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#51976
byne

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AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?


Not sure why people always ask this.

Using the Crucible was always the plan, aye?

Well the Crucible is still there, it just hasnt docked yet according to IT.

So you wake up, actually open the arms, and use the Crucible.

#51977
estebanus

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AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?



They use the crucible.

#51978
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Arian Dynas wrote...

LADIES AND YOUNGER LADIES (and gentlemen).

I am bored.

Since I have decided not to hit up the awesomeness that is Mass Effect 3 (really, this theory has not only made it playable for me again, but actually even more awesome than it was to begin with) until the EC comes out, to better enjoy the full effect, I find myself in need of a RPG.

I've pretty much burned myself out on the grand noveau-retro dungeoncrawler that is Legend of Grimrock.

I bought the Enhanced Edition of The Witcher, but to be honest, I am not really impressed, at all.

I've considered going back and finally finishing Dragon Age 2 all the way through, which does seem the most appealing right now.

Skyrim I have played to death and don't much feel like hitting up right now.

Baldur's Gate I have played to death, beyond and back again so many times over my lifetime it's not even funny.

So basically, suggestions to stave off my boredom while I wait for the EC?


Tribes: Ascend is a nice free online FPS shooter which distinguishes itself from other FPS by having wide open maps and the ability to blaze through said maps at 200 KmPH using Jetskiing and a Jepack which every class has. With an arsenal of primarily non hitscan machine gun and explosive weaponry and that blazing speed it adds a new element to the fight as leading your target and predicting where they will be is just as important as a steady aim. Really fun and free as mentioned.

If it is RPG you are looking for I can recomend Divinity 2: Eco Dragonis, a fun little RPG which came out a few years ago. Not the best graphics, but the game is loaded with humor and good ideas...oh and you gain the ability to transform into a Dragon at will :D Not as good as the high profile RPG´s though, but Eco Dragonis has its own charm and is certainly not a bad game at all.

Also have you played Jade Empire? Bioware game (as you probably know) with a great story and likeable characters.

You also mentioned The  Witcher. Have you played the second game? Much better than the first if you ask me.

#51979
HellishFiend

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You guys still think the Crucible is actually going to defeat the reapers? I dont believe that at all.

#51980
gunslinger_ruiz

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@pirate1802

When it comes right down to it, for me, the Mass Effect trilogy is still enjoyable and I think that is the key to why I'm so positive about the endings/potential EC endings. Mass Effect 1 has a story on a level that no game I've played surpasses. Mass Effect 2 had integrated side characters, your squadmates, into the game with their own back story and let you get to know them as more than that alien who shoots things or throws people around like ragdolls. The first game did this as well but 2 had 12 squadmates you do this with and not all were romance options, by the end they felt like good friends of Shepard's and loyal to the end. Mass Effect 3... I still see as one of the most epic games I've had the pleasure of owning. Everything from the plot to the combat system gets me right into the game every time. It's "emotionally engaging" to use a phrase Bioware is fond of. The trilogy as a whole is the most intense thing I've ever been a part of, no game made me as interested in the storyline as much as this.

Maybe all of this is why I didn't rage at the endings we were given. I chose Control to start (since it was blue and I was on my paragon, then reloaded to choose Synthesis, shed a tear for my Shepard's sacrifice and smiled at Liara (my LI) surviving on a tropical planet. The war was over and the Normandy crew had survived. Then I reloaded again to pick Destroy, just to see the ending. I got Shepard's Breath scene and from that moment I KNEW Bioware had a something planned to further the endings whether its via Indoctrination or something I can't even imagine. I still feel the same way today, reading through this forums (through the supporters and naysayers) has only further reassured me.

But here I've gotten carried away again. All in all, I don't think it's right to get pissed at Bioware for making endings that don't completely make sense to some people, they've done right by gamers at least 99% of the time in terms of entertainment and engagement (emotional engagement). And I agree partially, the choices don't make much sense but I didn't question them to begin with. I thought they made sense at the time, then thought about it more and more and understood how they make no sense and are confusing. However with Indoctrination they make sense from an illusion standpoint, like it's all a trick. At face value the only way they make sense is if there are things we simply don't understand, that are too complex that Bioware skipped on explaining.

#51981
Hawk227

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Playing ME3 for the first time in a month (been going through ME1 and ME2) and had to get a couple things off my chest, in a good way.

1) That scene with Conrad Verner is hilarious. I hadn't finished all his stuff in the ME1/ME2 save I used originally, and I missed out. I also loved how it just utilized a bunch of random side stuff from from ME1.

2) Joker is my homie. I just finished the Cerberus Coup mission, and left Kaidan at the dock (because I was tired of his sh**) and Joker just hobbled out of his chair and saluted Shepard, because "someone needed to give shep the respect he deserved". :crying:

3) Knowing that EMS doesn't really matter, and that I can't get 4000 w/o multiplayer anyway has made me feel liberated in terms of some decisions, mainly shooting that punk Balak. I always felt dirty letting him live, but I thought I needed the Batarian fleet.

Modifié par Hawk227, 06 mai 2012 - 08:30 .


#51982
gunslinger_ruiz

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estebanus wrote...

AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?



They use the crucible.


A possiblity. I still think its possible that Shepard resisting indoctrination sends some kind of backfeed wave through the Indoctrination Signal that staggers the Reaper fleet throughout the galaxy, and Reaper ground forces, allowing for allied forces to decimate them before they can recover (somewhat like Sovereign in ME1 but without Shepard going all...red lazer beam of death possessed Saren on us...I hope.)

#51983
byne

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Hawk227 wrote...

Playing ME3 for the first time in a month (been going through ME1 and ME2) and had to get a couple things off my chest, in a good way.

1) That scene with Conrad Verner is hilarious. I hadn't finished all his stuff in the ME1/ME2 save I used originally, and I missed out. I also loved how it just utilized a bunch of random side stuff from from ME1.


You didnt let him die, did you?

#51984
estebanus

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

estebanus wrote...

AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?



They use the crucible.


A possiblity. I still think its possible that Shepard resisting indoctrination sends some kind of backfeed wave through the Indoctrination Signal that staggers the Reaper fleet throughout the galaxy, and Reaper ground forces, allowing for allied forces to decimate them before they can recover (somewhat like Sovereign in ME1 but without Shepard going all...red lazer beam of death possessed Saren on us...I hope.)



Didn't the codex state that the reapers fixed that flaw?

#51985
Hawk227

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byne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Playing ME3 for the first time in a month (been going through ME1 and ME2) and had to get a couple things off my chest, in a good way.

1) That scene with Conrad Verner is hilarious. I hadn't finished all his stuff in the ME1/ME2 save I used originally, and I missed out. I also loved how it just utilized a bunch of random side stuff from from ME1.


You didnt let him die, did you?


In ME3? No. He can die? Jenna from Chora's Den sabotaged the Cerberus guys pistol.

In my original save, I didn't visit him the 3rd time in ME1, so he wasn't active in ME2 and ME3

#51986
gunslinger_ruiz

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estebanus wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

estebanus wrote...

AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?



They use the crucible.


A possiblity. I still think its possible that Shepard resisting indoctrination sends some kind of backfeed wave through the Indoctrination Signal that staggers the Reaper fleet throughout the galaxy, and Reaper ground forces, allowing for allied forces to decimate them before they can recover (somewhat like Sovereign in ME1 but without Shepard going all...red lazer beam of death possessed Saren on us...I hope.)



Didn't the codex state that the reapers fixed that flaw?


I haven't seen that myself, and I'm not sure how the galaxy figured out they fix it in that case. Did they kill someone under direct control that had bee subtley indoctrinated? Either way, Shepard's willpower would be key to this backfeed, and if it's enough to overcome indoctrination it could be enough to harm the Reapers in some way. Could be as simple as all the Reapers seeing  this and going "wait...what?" and forgetting to keep their barriers up. But this is all just speculation, just throwing some ideas out there.

Keep in mind, you had to kill a possessed Saren to cause the backfeed for Sovereign. All Shepard would have to do is wake up to potentially cause this effect.

EDIT : Clarification: Killing someone to cause a backfeed is different than having someone completely resist Indoctrination to cause a backfeed.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 06 mai 2012 - 08:41 .


#51987
DirtyPhoenix

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I agree 100% with you gunslinger, regardless of the ending ME3 and the trilogy as a whole has been excellent. I can understand why the endings can be a gamebreaker or seriesbreaker for some people but not for me :P

#51988
gunslinger_ruiz

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Clarification to my last post: Killing someone to cause a backfeed is different than having someone completely resist Indoctrination to cause a backfeed.

#51989
byne

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Hawk227 wrote...

byne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Playing ME3 for the first time in a month (been going through ME1 and ME2) and had to get a couple things off my chest, in a good way.

1) That scene with Conrad Verner is hilarious. I hadn't finished all his stuff in the ME1/ME2 save I used originally, and I missed out. I also loved how it just utilized a bunch of random side stuff from from ME1.


You didnt let him die, did you?


In ME3? No. He can die? Jenna from Chora's Den sabotaged the Cerberus guys pistol.

In my original save, I didn't visit him the 3rd time in ME1, so he wasn't active in ME2 and ME3


If you didnt do Jennas mission in ME1, she isnt there to sabotage the gun, and Conrad actually gets shot, and dies.

#51990
MegumiAzusa

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liggy002 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Then how does this count as evidence and how does it strongly suggest the IT?


You lost me. What assets would count against the IT? I'm talking about the file shown.



What I'm saying is that if the plant life we see in that picture was used before and is named Dream Foliage, then it may just be named that because it was used for the dream sequences with the kid (the ones where Shepard chases him in the forest) and it could just be a reused asset.  So I am asking how that could be evidence for the IT if the plant life on the end planet was previously used in the series of dreams that Shep had on the Normandy.


OOOOOOH, that. No, if any of that is in the "Official" dreams, I've not seen it. And I've been through those dreams at least a dozen times to study both visual and audio queues. They are in the ending though.


I wish there was a way for us to know for certain that the foliage wasn't used in the "official" dream sequences because then that would probably be a dead giveaway.  Then again, if they had intended IT, they wouldn't make it that easy for us.

Is dll injection allowed in ME3? I know some people using Texmod but I wouldn't want to risk my account in any way ^^
If allowed, programs like this can easily extract and analyze a scene currently on the screen.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 06 mai 2012 - 09:15 .


#51991
MegumiAzusa

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byne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

byne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Playing ME3 for the first time in a month (been going through ME1 and ME2) and had to get a couple things off my chest, in a good way.

1) That scene with Conrad Verner is hilarious. I hadn't finished all his stuff in the ME1/ME2 save I used originally, and I missed out. I also loved how it just utilized a bunch of random side stuff from from ME1.


You didnt let him die, did you?


In ME3? No. He can die? Jenna from Chora's Den sabotaged the Cerberus guys pistol.

In my original save, I didn't visit him the 3rd time in ME1, so he wasn't active in ME2 and ME3


If you didnt do Jennas mission in ME1, she isnt there to sabotage the gun, and Conrad actually gets shot, and dies.

Btw what if you do neither? Will you die?

#51992
DirtyPhoenix

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I used texmod for one entire playthrough without any problem.

#51993
Arian Dynas

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byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

LADIES AND YOUNGER LADIES (and gentlemen).

I am bored.

Since I have decided not to hit up the awesomeness that is Mass Effect 3 (really, this theory has not only made it playable for me again, but actually even more awesome than it was to begin with) until the EC comes out, to better enjoy the full effect, I find myself in need of a RPG.

I've pretty much burned myself out on the grand noveau-retro dungeoncrawler that is Legend of Grimrock.

I bought the Enhanced Edition of The Witcher, but to be honest, I am not really impressed, at all.

I've considered going back and finally finishing Dragon Age 2 all the way through, which does seem the most appealing right now.

Skyrim I have played to death and don't much feel like hitting up right now.

Baldur's Gate I have played to death, beyond and back again so many times over my lifetime it's not even funny.

So basically, suggestions to stave off my boredom while I wait for the EC?


Diablo 3 isn't that far from release if you like that sort of game.


OMFG I KNOW!!!! only a week and 2 days :D


Huh, that soon?

I preordered the Collector's Edition, but mainly for the WoW pet.

I'm kind of addicted to collecting pets in WoW. :blush:


I haven't touched WoW in a very long time, and to be honest, I am happy with that fact.

I used to run a guild, we grew recklessly fast, became famous quick, huge numbers, burned out quick and then I was consumed. I built that guild nearly singlehandedly, most of the people I delegated to ended up letting me down, in the end, it became less fun being "The Guildfather" and more of a chore, an aching, arduous chore that ended up leaving me feeling guilty whenever I saw a downturn for the guild, and whenever I went out to.. you know, HAVE A LIFE.

In the end, I just ended up leaving, the guild was collapsing, my friends there were even telling me to let it die gracefully. I still miss some of them sometimes. Some of them were the first friends I had that I didn't keep at arm's length.

So yeah, I avoid WoW for my mental health and general happiness now.

AzraelDrakken wrote...

Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?

 

Like this, to prove a point; 
http://social.biowar...3/1873#11747086

#51994
Arian Dynas

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Did... did I just depress the thread into a screeching halt?

#51995
BleedingUranium

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Did... did I just depress the thread into a screeching halt?


Noooooo, not your fault Posted Image Not sure where you are, but it's 03:25 NA Pacific time, so, pretty much everyone in North America is probably sleeping right now. Cept me, dunno why Posted Image Not to discount the rest of the world, but I'd expect a lot of posters are in NA

#51996
gunslinger_ruiz

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Did... did I just depress the thread into a screeching halt?


Nah just random timing. I'm busy playing through my nuetral origin Shepard's ME3 run and its almost 3:30am so I'm about to head to sleep anyway.

But I'll leave you with this little bit, I think I found the "dream" foliage at Grissom Academy. Or maybe I'm tired and just seeing things.

Posted Image

#51997
Sixteen Sixty-Six

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Noooooo, not your fault Posted Image Not sure where you are, but it's 03:25 NA Pacific time, so, pretty much everyone in North America is probably sleeping right now. Cept me, dunno why Posted Image Not to discount the rest of the world, but I'd expect a lot of posters are in NA


You and I have the same disorder.

#51998
Rosewind

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Did... did I just depress the thread into a screeching halt?


Noooooo, not your fault Posted Image Not sure where you are, but it's 03:25 NA Pacific time, so, pretty much everyone in North America is probably sleeping right now. Cept me, dunno why Posted Image Not to discount the rest of the world, but I'd expect a lot of posters are in NA


nope 6.30pm here was doing homework for tomorrow.

#51999
Fingertrip

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No continuation on the clenching stuff?

#52000
Stigweird85

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HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Posted Image

This image disproves space magic.

:D


I suppose it does. Posted Image


In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in this context "magic" refers to an earlier quote in the comic about Clarke's law:

Arthur C. Clarke wrote...

  • When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  • The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  • Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


I realise the comment was probably made in jest against the space magic theory but I just wanted to add some context

Modifié par bigstig, 06 mai 2012 - 11:09 .