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Arian Dynas wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
this has probably been talk to death but I took some pic of before and after harbinger beam hits Shepard.
*snip*
http://i.imgur.com/IR2LR.jpg
this is befor the harbinger beam
*snip*
i.imgur.com/gjvQA.jpg
and this is after
clue or just added in for effect?
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Oh my God. You are literally not seeing the forest for the trees! LAMO!
Rifneno wrote...
Don't have time to catch up the 16 pages I missed... but OMG! Guys! Either my pain medication is whacking me out more than usual, or I think I figured out something major.
HARBINGER IS THE PROTHEAN REAPER!
Ever since Byne posted that picture of Javik with the glowing yellow eyes, I've been trying to figure out what the hell. On one hand, Javik uses the same mockery of logic that starbrat uses. Toss in the glowing eyes and it sounds like he's either hardcore indoctrinated or a completely fake Reaper plant. But that doesn't add up. He doesn't exhibit any symptoms of indoctrination and when it comes to Reapers he's like a rabid wolverine. He wants Reaper blood and he wants it now. Which is the exact opposite of how he should act if he was remotely on the Reaper's side. Then it hit me: that's because the reverse is true. Their similarities aren't because Javik has Reaper ties, they're because Harbinger has Prothean ones.
We know that Reapers, to a small extent at least, resemble their origin species. They didn't bother showing us different types of capital ships in 3 but the FMV at the end of 2 clearly shows us stark variances in some capital ships. Look at Javik's eye structure. Four eyes with the outer pair slightly higher. Now look at Harbinger's... "eyes" I guess. Six of them. Okay, I can't explain the extra two, but four of them are a perfect match for Prothean eye structure. I think the reason they dumped Javik having glowing yellow eyes is because it'd make it too obvious what Harbinger is. The aforementioned perversion of logic, "oh no'es teh machines will dustruy us all!" It's pretty retarded. Which begs the question, why would Harbinger give Shepard an explanation for the Reapers that was so retarded? Why not go with something that makes at least some semblence of sense like the dark energy theory? Because depending on how much of the minds of the people used to create him still exist, he either genuinely believes it himself or he knows that it's an explanation organics will believe because he, er, "they" used to. He's appealing to Shepard with Prothean logic.
Also remember the control ending is labeled internally and in the Prima guide as "become a Reaper". If Harbinger is leading the Reapers because he's currently the newest and best model, it makes sense that if Shepard became a Reaper he'd control them. So in a super terrible way, the control ending would be legit.
Counterpoints:
- The two extra eyes. ... Yeah, I got nothin'.
- EDI claims "they tried to create a Prothean Reaper and failed": She never explains how she came to that conclusion. On that basis alone it's hard not to take with a grain of salt. Besides, she didn't say it was their only attempt to create one. In fact, EDI usually explains at least the basis for her conclusions if not the complete summary of how she reached them. And Shepard has time to ask her all sorts of other questions so it's not like they didn't have 5 seconds for her to say "I see a detect a note at the bottom of the pit reading 'Stupid protheans' DNA won't work, I'm abandoning the ****ers and waiting for the next species.'" I have to wonder if she didn't actually say that because the writers wanted to throw us off.
- Harbinger's codex claims him the oldest and largest of the Reaper armada: There's no way they could possibly know he's the oldest. That's a wild guess. It has to be. They couldn't even put a date the damned Citadel and they lived on the thing for thousands of years. What, did Harbinger let somebody scrape some metal off for carbon dating? Bull****. Actually, I think the opposite is more likely. When production cost isn't a factor, the newest model of something is pretty much always the best. Features and technology improves over time, and re-fitting older models is often extremely difficult or impossible. So logically the newest Reaper would be the "best".
Ch1m3Ra wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
-snip-
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Sorry... what? Just for effect? That is a pathetic argument. There is absolutely zero reason for the trees to be there. It adds to IT as it provides a dream-like state. I seriously don't know how you can think that.
Rifneno wrote...
Hilarious, truly. Because literally every game designer in the world wouldn't just hit copy and paste and call it a day.
Modifié par SubAstris, 06 mai 2012 - 12:51 .
SubAstris wrote...
Ch1m3Ra wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
-snip-
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Sorry... what? Just for effect? That is a pathetic argument. There is absolutely zero reason for the trees to be there. It adds to IT as it provides a dream-like state. I seriously don't know how you can think that.
The fact that we can all agree on is that the first screenshot is from a time before the second, I assume when you first undertake the final assault. BW didn't put any trees or detail like that because it is frankly not needed at the time. It is only needed for post-Harbinger phase to create an atmosphere of sorts. Why waste polygons on shrubs and trees before they are needed?
Note the space in the eye socket with only one eye, maybe the second just isn't installed yet.Rifneno wrote...
I DO have something for the two extra eyes. Go back and look at the human Reaper. Son of a vorcha has 3 eyes for some frickin' reason. It was even a meme for a while. If the human Reaper got more eyes, why not the Prothean one too?
I did a google search for "Harbinger is the Prothean Reaper" to find the post so I could reply to it, and it seems I'm not the first to think Harby might be Prothean. Even in this thread. Which really makes me think this does have some merit. Especially since they noticed some other things, like Harbinger's ridges being similar to Javik's, and all they got was the same "but the codex says he's the oldest!" which has more logical fallacies than waldstr's posting history.
Because it wouldn't matter, they are very low poly and if the processing power is needed they don't get rendered anyway because of the LOD.SubAstris wrote...
Ch1m3Ra wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
-snip-
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Sorry... what? Just for effect? That is a pathetic argument. There is absolutely zero reason for the trees to be there. It adds to IT as it provides a dream-like state. I seriously don't know how you can think that.
The fact that we can all agree on is that the first screenshot is from a time before the second, I assume when you first undertake the final assault. BW didn't put any trees or detail like that because it is frankly not needed at the time. It is only needed for post-Harbinger phase to create an atmosphere of sorts. Why waste polygons on shrubs and trees before they are needed?
SubAstris wrote...
This is coming from someone who believes the scene after Shepard has chosen is practically useless. Right...
estebanus wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Ch1m3Ra wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
-snip-
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Sorry... what? Just for effect? That is a pathetic argument. There is absolutely zero reason for the trees to be there. It adds to IT as it provides a dream-like state. I seriously don't know how you can think that.
The fact that we can all agree on is that the first screenshot is from a time before the second, I assume when you first undertake the final assault. BW didn't put any trees or detail like that because it is frankly not needed at the time. It is only needed for post-Harbinger phase to create an atmosphere of sorts. Why waste polygons on shrubs and trees before they are needed?
Why waste any on them at all?
Rifneno wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
This is coming from someone who believes the scene after Shepard has chosen is practically useless. Right...
This coming from someone who believes that the greatest sci-fi/RPG of the era, heavily backed by real science, ended with a guy turning everyone in the galaxy into a cyborg, to the point where leaves have printed circuitry on them, by jumping into a beam.
Hi Rif! It's been a while and I've missed your posts! Surprisngly I'm gonna side with you this timeRifneno wrote...
Hey guys. I miss anything noteworthy in the past few days? I see SubAstris is still deep enough in denial to drown a brachiosaurus. That's always fun. Pretty good one there. The company that made Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 2, games with 75 areas sharing a grand total of 4 different layouts, added "dream trees" after the beam just for effect. Hilarious, truly. Because literally every game designer in the world wouldn't just hit copy and paste and call it a day. Literalists are always funny, never meaning to be. Kudos, Sub. Continue to entertain.
Also, I want to bump this post I made shortly before leaving and add a new note afterwards.Rifneno wrote...
Don't have time to catch up the 16 pages I missed... but OMG! Guys! Either my pain medication is whacking me out more than usual, or I think I figured out something major.
HARBINGER IS THE PROTHEAN REAPER!
Ever since Byne posted that picture of Javik with the glowing yellow eyes, I've been trying to figure out what the hell. On one hand, Javik uses the same mockery of logic that starbrat uses. Toss in the glowing eyes and it sounds like he's either hardcore indoctrinated or a completely fake Reaper plant. But that doesn't add up. He doesn't exhibit any symptoms of indoctrination and when it comes to Reapers he's like a rabid wolverine. He wants Reaper blood and he wants it now. Which is the exact opposite of how he should act if he was remotely on the Reaper's side. Then it hit me: that's because the reverse is true. Their similarities aren't because Javik has Reaper ties, they're because Harbinger has Prothean ones.
We know that Reapers, to a small extent at least, resemble their origin species. They didn't bother showing us different types of capital ships in 3 but the FMV at the end of 2 clearly shows us stark variances in some capital ships. Look at Javik's eye structure. Four eyes with the outer pair slightly higher. Now look at Harbinger's... "eyes" I guess. Six of them. Okay, I can't explain the extra two, but four of them are a perfect match for Prothean eye structure. I think the reason they dumped Javik having glowing yellow eyes is because it'd make it too obvious what Harbinger is. The aforementioned perversion of logic, "oh no'es teh machines will dustruy us all!" It's pretty retarded. Which begs the question, why would Harbinger give Shepard an explanation for the Reapers that was so retarded? Why not go with something that makes at least some semblence of sense like the dark energy theory? Because depending on how much of the minds of the people used to create him still exist, he either genuinely believes it himself or he knows that it's an explanation organics will believe because he, er, "they" used to. He's appealing to Shepard with Prothean logic.
Also remember the control ending is labeled internally and in the Prima guide as "become a Reaper". If Harbinger is leading the Reapers because he's currently the newest and best model, it makes sense that if Shepard became a Reaper he'd control them. So in a super terrible way, the control ending would be legit.
Counterpoints:
- The two extra eyes. ... Yeah, I got nothin'.
- EDI claims "they tried to create a Prothean Reaper and failed": She never explains how she came to that conclusion. On that basis alone it's hard not to take with a grain of salt. Besides, she didn't say it was their only attempt to create one. In fact, EDI usually explains at least the basis for her conclusions if not the complete summary of how she reached them. And Shepard has time to ask her all sorts of other questions so it's not like they didn't have 5 seconds for her to say "I see a detect a note at the bottom of the pit reading 'Stupid protheans' DNA won't work, I'm abandoning the ****ers and waiting for the next species.'" I have to wonder if she didn't actually say that because the writers wanted to throw us off.
- Harbinger's codex claims him the oldest and largest of the Reaper armada: There's no way they could possibly know he's the oldest. That's a wild guess. It has to be. They couldn't even put a date the damned Citadel and they lived on the thing for thousands of years. What, did Harbinger let somebody scrape some metal off for carbon dating? Bull****. Actually, I think the opposite is more likely. When production cost isn't a factor, the newest model of something is pretty much always the best. Features and technology improves over time, and re-fitting older models is often extremely difficult or impossible. So logically the newest Reaper would be the "best".
I DO have something for the two extra eyes. Go back and look at the human Reaper. Son of a vorcha has 3 eyes for some frickin' reason. It was even a meme for a while. If the human Reaper got more eyes, why not the Prothean one too?
I did a google search for "Harbinger is the Prothean Reaper" to find the post so I could reply to it, and it seems I'm not the first to think Harby might be Prothean. Even in this thread. Which really makes me think this does have some merit. Especially since they noticed some other things, like Harbinger's ridges being similar to Javik's, and all they got was the same "but the codex says he's the oldest!" which has more logical fallacies than waldstr's posting history.
!Modifié par Uncle Jo, 06 mai 2012 - 01:14 .
iggy1eco wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
You guys do know there is an entire forum dedicated to discussion of the LI's, right?
This thread is for stuff like this:
My new favorite evidence right now....
The "Dream" word picks my interest ^^
SubAstris wrote...
Ch1m3Ra wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
prettz wrote...
-snip-
Very likely just for effect. There is very little to add to IT from here
Sorry... what? Just for effect? That is a pathetic argument. There is absolutely zero reason for the trees to be there. It adds to IT as it provides a dream-like state. I seriously don't know how you can think that.
The fact that we can all agree on is that the first screenshot is from a time before the second, I assume when you first undertake the final assault. BW didn't put any trees or detail like that because it is frankly not needed at the time. It is only needed for post-Harbinger phase to create an atmosphere of sorts. Why waste polygons on shrubs and trees before they are needed?
SubAstris wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
This is coming from someone who believes the scene after Shepard has chosen is practically useless. Right...
This coming from someone who believes that the greatest sci-fi/RPG of the era, heavily backed by real science, ended with a guy turning everyone in the galaxy into a cyborg, to the point where leaves have printed circuitry on them, by jumping into a beam.
It is frankly on par with the space magic which caused Shepard to be resurrected
Arian Dynas wrote...
LADIES AND YOUNGER LADIES (and gentlemen).
I am bored.
Since I have decided not to hit up the awesomeness that is Mass Effect 3 (really, this theory has not only made it playable for me again, but actually even more awesome than it was to begin with) until the EC comes out, to better enjoy the full effect, I find myself in need of a RPG.
I've pretty much burned myself out on the grand noveau-retro dungeoncrawler that is Legend of Grimrock.
I bought the Enhanced Edition of The Witcher, but to be honest, I am not really impressed, at all.
I've considered going back and finally finishing Dragon Age 2 all the way through, which does seem the most appealing right now.
Skyrim I have played to death and don't much feel like hitting up right now.
Baldur's Gate I have played to death, beyond and back again so many times over my lifetime it's not even funny.
So basically, suggestions to stave off my boredom while I wait for the EC?
AzraelDrakken wrote...
Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?
Modifié par bigstig, 06 mai 2012 - 01:29 .
Big G13 wrote...
@prettz -- Thanks for the pics. People
have been fighting over these damn trees off and on for 1500 pages. This
is the best comparison I've seen. Not saying there weren't others.
These are just the best I've seen.
Just got in. How ya'll doing?
Modifié par prettz, 06 mai 2012 - 01:27 .
Arian Dynas wrote...
bigstig wrote...
*Some stuff that was an enourmously unecessarily big pain in the ass to format so I just cut it out.*
Thank you so much for explaining the joke, captain buzzkill.
seriously though the concept of advanced technology appearing like magic is certainly worth considering on the whole space magic thing.
prettz wrote...
pic removed
The crucible is real enough, what it actually does is open to speculation, but here is my take on it social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11883892/2#11898072AzraelDrakken wrote...
Someone please explain, if shepard is unconscious then when he wakes up there's still a war happening right? If IT is Bioware's intent, then how do they defeat the reaper's if shep was dreaming?
Rosewind wrote...
I'm back what did I miss?
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