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[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

If they carefully planted ideas for the indoc-theory why do they need the voice-actors for a second run?

I can understand that, in case this was planned all along, they needed extra time to develop 1, 2 additional levels.

But if they already had the idea, why didn't they record the voice acting when they had the opportunity to?

This makes no sense at all...but after the photoshopped-Tali picture my answer to such inconsistencies in the game is not "hidden genius" but "laziness hardly imaginable by normal people".

Your argument does raise a valid point, though I suppose one could counter by pointing out that if IT was planned then it was/is supposed to be top secret until revealed. Could simply be a need-to-know situation, and the VO's didn't need to know.

So indeed of adopting the much more efficient system of getting the voice actors to do all their work at the same time, they instead dismissed them after doin most of their work before telling them to come back for a tiny bit afterwards? Makes sense, right?

...yes, it does, assuming you want secrecy. Did you not understand the point of my post? What people don't know they can't spill. Directors VERY often don't tell actors about secret scenes until the hour of filming. Hell, even in the simpsons they animated various endings so as not to give away who shot Mr Burns.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 06 mai 2012 - 05:49 .

[Comguard2]

I'm not saying that IT is wrong, I just can't believe that Bioware shows such an incredible laziness on some levels of the game and still manages to pull of such an ending.

The voice-actors thing could be explained if they really wanted to leave the ending open,so, they knew they wanted to finish with indoc some time after release, but waited for fan feedback on how this ending should look like (love interest dead, happy ending, cameo appearance).

But the most striking argument against indoc is, in my opinion, still Bioware itself (This is the intended ending) and the Final Hours app (lots of speculation).

This is why the ending makes no sense and drives people mad: there are all these hints that make it hard to believe they were placed there by accident, but still they officially say "no indoc". This makes me mad and I will happy when this will all be over with the release of the EC.

[SubAstris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

If they carefully planted ideas for the indoc-theory why do they need the voice-actors for a second run?

I can understand that, in case this was planned all along, they needed extra time to develop 1, 2 additional levels.

But if they already had the idea, why didn't they record the voice acting when they had the opportunity to?

This makes no sense at all...but after the photoshopped-Tali picture my answer to such inconsistencies in the game is not "hidden genius" but "laziness hardly imaginable by normal people".

Your argument does raise a valid point, though I suppose one could counter by pointing out that if IT was planned then it was/is supposed to be top secret until revealed. Could simply be a need-to-know situation, and the VO's didn't need to know.

So indeed of adopting the much more efficient system of getting the voice actors to do all their work at the same time, they instead dismissed them after doin most of their work before telling them to come back for a tiny bit afterwards? Makes sense, right?

Or the work they are doing is not for the EC but other dlc?

Or the voice actors are in on it?

For all that your hard trying you dont really put any effort into actually providing proof for why we are wrong.

Try watching this video and then come back here and point for point refute what it brings up, please?

There is a specific tweet from Mike Gamble about VO work for the EC https://twitter.com/...035499128696832

As for voice actors, this seems to be more and more like what a conspiracy theorist would say (I know people don't like the comparison, but it is apt here). Concerning 9/11, you might present evidence such as"the NYPD nowhere recorded the sound of explosions in the buildings", to which a truther would usually answer by saying, "the firefighters were in on it". The same thing would happen when talking about those who investigated the wreckage, that they did not record any missile hitting the Pentagon, "oh, they were in on it too". You see what I am saying here?

[SS2Dante]

Comguard2 wrote...

I'm not saying that IT is wrong, I just can't believe that Bioware shows such an incredible laziness on some levels of the game and still manages to pull of such an ending.

The voice-actors thing could be explained if they really wanted to leave the ending open,so, they knew they wanted to finish with indoc some time after release, but waited for fan feedback on how this ending should look like (love interest dead, happy ending, cameo appearance).

But the most striking argument against indoc is, in my opinion, still Bioware itself (This is the intended ending) and the Final Hours app (lots of speculation).

This is why the ending makes no sense and drives people mad: there are all these hints that make it hard to believe they were placed there by accident, but still they officially say "no indoc". This makes me mad and I will happy when this will all be over with the release of the EC.

They have never officially said "no indoc". In fact, they have gone on record as wanting to say nothing about indoc one way or the other.

But anyhoo was just jumping onto the forum for a moment so I'll leave this here

Modifié par SS2Dante, 06 mai 2012 - 05:53 .

[SubAstris]

Comguard2 wrote...

I'm not saying that IT is wrong, I just can't believe that Bioware shows such an incredible laziness on some levels of the game and still manages to pull of such an ending.

The voice-actors thing could be explained if they really wanted to leave the ending open,so, they knew they wanted to finish with indoc some time after release, but waited for fan feedback on how this ending should look like (love interest dead, happy ending, cameo appearance).

But the most striking argument against indoc is, in my opinion, still Bioware itself (This is the intended ending) and the Final Hours app (lots of speculation).

This is why the ending makes no sense and drives people mad: there are all these hints that make it hard to believe they were placed there by accident, but still they officially say "no indoc". This makes me mad and I will happy when this will all be over with the release of the EC.

Don't forget things like Weekes' comments about BW not realising that fans would interpret the destruction of the Mass Relays as destroy the whole system, as per Arrival.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SS2Dante wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

If they carefully planted ideas for the indoc-theory why do they need the voice-actors for a second run?

I can understand that, in case this was planned all along, they needed extra time to develop 1, 2 additional levels.

But if they already had the idea, why didn't they record the voice acting when they had the opportunity to?

This makes no sense at all...but after the photoshopped-Tali picture my answer to such inconsistencies in the game is not "hidden genius" but "laziness hardly imaginable by normal people".

Your argument does raise a valid point, though I suppose one could counter by pointing out that if IT was planned then it was/is supposed to be top secret until revealed. Could simply be a need-to-know situation, and the VO's didn't need to know.

So indeed of adopting the much more efficient system of getting the voice actors to do all their work at the same time, they instead dismissed them after doin most of their work before telling them to come back for a tiny bit afterwards? Makes sense, right?

...yes, it does, assuming you want secrecy. Did you not understand the point of my post? What people don't know they can't spill. Directors VERY often don't tell actors about secret scenes until the hour of filming. Hell, even in the simpsons they animated various endings so as not to give away who shot Mr Burns.

Oh yeah. To add another example to this, do you know how many knew that Darth vader was Luke Skywalker´s father during the filming of Empire Strikes Back, before the scene was actually done?

George Luca, knew that is all. Everyone else had fake script in which it was Obi-Wan who had killed Luke´s father which was also how the scene was filmed originally...but after first take Lucas pulled Mark Hamill and the guy in Vaders suit aside, told them the truth and the scene was redone.

And keeping secrets in the gaming Industry is not as hard as people seem to think. How many leaks do we get from companies like Nintendo or Valve? Those two especially seem able to keep their cards closed so alot of "leaks" can easily be questioned if they really were leaks.

[paxxton]

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've checked the ingame Catalyst scene. There are no trees' reflections on the ramps. I think making up evidence is not the best way to support IT. Stay focused.

So how do you explain my screenshot then?

Yeah, paxxton so far we've had the cubemaps and 3 independantly sourced screenshots showing the tree reflections in game. Arguing the point seems futile at this stage.

Maybe there is something on Megumi's screenshots. It's extremely hard though to see anything tree-like there and definately there wasn't anything in my playthrough.

As for the cubemaps, they might just be a left-over from the dev process. Anyway, they present the scene from a given perspective. You could only use it as a skybox and only when Shepard stands in one place by the starchild (the given center of the cube).

Modifié par paxxton, 06 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[SS2Dante]

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've checked the ingame Catalyst scene. There are no trees' reflections on the ramps. I think making up evidence is not the best way to support IT. Stay focused.

So how do you explain my screenshot then?

Yeah, paxxton so far we've had the cubemaps and 3 independantly sourced screenshots showing the tree reflections in game. Arguing the point seems futile at this stage.

Maybe there is something on Megumi's screenshots. It's extremely hard though to see anything tree-like there and definately there wasn't anything in my playthrough.

As for the cubemaps, they might just be a left-over from the dev process. Anyway, they present the scene from a given perspective. You could only use it as a skybox and only when Shepard stands in one place by the starchild (the given center of the cube).

The given perspective is simply how cubemaps, used for reflections, work. Procedurally generating actual reflections would be far too expensive. It's too low res to be used as a skybox.

Also, "left over from the dev process". What dev process could this be, aside from some other version of the room with trees in it? And, besides needing just as much explanation for this, the trees don't match the surroundings in terms of picture quality. They've been drawn in afterwards, not generated from models.

[HellishFiend]

pirate1802 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Epantiras wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I just saw Major Coates lying dead in front of the beam !!!

In my first playthrough I thought I saw him as well... then I dismissed it as a "ah yes Bioware is re-using face models" thing. Can somebody verify this?

They wouldn't reuse a face of a major character for a random dead body.

Besides, I took Garrus and James on the final push to the beam.  But they are nowhere to be found in front of the beam. On my other playthrough Garrus lay there. On this one only two Major Coates. Two!? And at the same time he speaks on the comm device? This weirdness must be a hint.

In my last playthrough I decided to note what happens to my team mates as I rust towards the beam; I saw they stop following you after you cross a certain invisible line, they just stand there as if their batteries ran out

This isnt true, actually. It's just the poor way that the game handles your squadmates following you. Havent you ever climbed a ladder or rounded a corner, spun around, only to spin around again and find your squadmate staring at you? They teleport when you're not looking at them so that they can keep up with you. The reason for that is because them actually following you is fairly glitchy.
See this vid:

 

[HellishFiend]

prettz wrote...

this has probably been talk to death but I took some pic of before
and after harbinger beam hits Shepard.




http://i.imgur.com/IR2LR.jpg
this is befor the harbinger beam



i.imgur.com/gjvQA.jpg

and this is after

clue or just added in for effect?

This proves Bioware is lazy! They actually took the time to deliberately add....oh wait......

[paxxton]

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've checked the ingame Catalyst scene. There are no trees' reflections on the ramps. I think making up evidence is not the best way to support IT. Stay focused.

So how do you explain my screenshot then?

Yeah, paxxton so far we've had the cubemaps and 3 independantly sourced screenshots showing the tree reflections in game. Arguing the point seems futile at this stage.

Maybe there is something on Megumi's screenshots. It's extremely hard though to see anything tree-like there and definately there wasn't anything in my playthrough.

As for the cubemaps, they might just be a left-over from the dev process. Anyway, they present the scene from a given perspective. You could only use it as a skybox and only when Shepard stands in one place by the starchild (the given center of the cube).

The given perspective is simply how cubemaps, used for reflections, work. Procedurally generating actual reflections would be far too expensive. It's too low res to be used as a skybox.

Also, "left over from the dev process". What dev process could this be, aside from some other version of the room with trees in it? And, besides needing just as much explanation for this, the trees don't match the surroundings in terms of picture quality. They've been drawn in afterwards, not generated from models.

But if you move the camera and still see the reflections, it means that the game has to generate new cubemaps on the fly. Besides, the cubemaps I saw have the trees floating in the air, not on the ramps.

[SS2Dante]

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've checked the ingame Catalyst scene. There are no trees' reflections on the ramps. I think making up evidence is not the best way to support IT. Stay focused.

So how do you explain my screenshot then?

Yeah, paxxton so far we've had the cubemaps and 3 independantly sourced screenshots showing the tree reflections in game. Arguing the point seems futile at this stage.

Maybe there is something on Megumi's screenshots. It's extremely hard though to see anything tree-like there and definately there wasn't anything in my playthrough.

As for the cubemaps, they might just be a left-over from the dev process. Anyway, they present the scene from a given perspective. You could only use it as a skybox and only when Shepard stands in one place by the starchild (the given center of the cube).

The given perspective is simply how cubemaps, used for reflections, work. Procedurally generating actual reflections would be far too expensive. It's too low res to be used as a skybox.

Also, "left over from the dev process". What dev process could this be, aside from some other version of the room with trees in it? And, besides needing just as much explanation for this, the trees don't match the surroundings in terms of picture quality. They've been drawn in afterwards, not generated from models.

But if you move the camera and still see the reflections, it means that the game has to generate new cubemaps on the fly. Besides, the cubemaps I saw have the trees floating in the air, not on the ramps.

Pretty sure it just scales and moves the given texture to mimic reflection.

I..wha? Don't understand your second point? If it means what I thin you mean I don't think you understand how the cubemap works :S

[NeoDobby]

Hmm, kind of an off-topic question: We needed to follow Kai Leng to find TIM - Miranda planted a transmitter or something on him in their fight. But we just needed to know where the Illusive Man was. Couldn't Miranda just tell us? She was in his room at the beginning of ME 2 and the Station hasn't moved since.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

But if you move the camera and still see the reflections, it means that the game has to generate new cubemaps on the fly. Besides, the cubemaps I saw have the trees floating in the air, not on the ramps.

The entire point of using cubemapping for reflections is that so the game engine does NOT have to generate them on the fly. They are not real-time reflections. 

[SS2Dante]

HellishFiend wrote...

prettz wrote...

this has probably been talk to death but I took some pic of before
and after harbinger beam hits Shepard.




http://i.imgur.com/IR2LR.jpg
this is befor the harbinger beam



i.imgur.com/gjvQA.jpg

and this is after

clue or just added in for effect?

This proves Bioware is lazy! They actually took the time to deliberately add....oh wait......

I'd like to know exactly when in the scene the "before" shot was taken. Something I noticed while playing the run sequence is that a gunship is shot down right onto the raised pile of slabs and scrap metal, and yet it's gone when you wake up. Just wondering if that's a glitch or if you just can't see the gunship from our position after you wake up.

http://www.youtube.c...gASQvI3PE#t=49s (here)

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

SO MANY BABBIES.

They need to do way instain mother>

Wow.

[paxxton]

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've checked the ingame Catalyst scene. There are no trees' reflections on the ramps. I think making up evidence is not the best way to support IT. Stay focused.

So how do you explain my screenshot then?

Yeah, paxxton so far we've had the cubemaps and 3 independantly sourced screenshots showing the tree reflections in game. Arguing the point seems futile at this stage.

Maybe there is something on Megumi's screenshots. It's extremely hard though to see anything tree-like there and definately there wasn't anything in my playthrough.

As for the cubemaps, they might just be a left-over from the dev process. Anyway, they present the scene from a given perspective. You could only use it as a skybox and only when Shepard stands in one place by the starchild (the given center of the cube).

The given perspective is simply how cubemaps, used for reflections, work. Procedurally generating actual reflections would be far too expensive. It's too low res to be used as a skybox.

Also, "left over from the dev process". What dev process could this be, aside from some other version of the room with trees in it? And, besides needing just as much explanation for this, the trees don't match the surroundings in terms of picture quality. They've been drawn in afterwards, not generated from models.

But if you move the camera and still see the reflections, it means that the game has to generate new cubemaps on the fly. Besides, the cubemaps I saw have the trees floating in the air, not on the ramps.

Pretty sure it just scales and moves the given texture to mimic reflection.

I..wha? Don't understand your second point? If it means what I thin you mean I don't think you understand how the cubemap works :S

Sorry, I confused it with panoramic view.
On which page can I find those cubemaps?

Modifié par paxxton, 06 mai 2012 - 06:58 .

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

prettz wrote...

this has probably been talk to death but I took some pic of before
and after harbinger beam hits Shepard.




http://i.imgur.com/IR2LR.jpg
this is befor the harbinger beam



i.imgur.com/gjvQA.jpg

and this is after

clue or just added in for effect?

This proves Bioware is lazy! They actually took the time to deliberately add....oh wait......

I'd like to know exactly when in the scene the "before" shot was taken. Something I noticed while playing the run sequence is that a gunship is shot down right onto the raised pile of slabs and scrap metal, and yet it's gone when you wake up. Just wondering if that's a glitch or if you just can't see the gunship from our position after you wake up.

http://www.youtube.c...gASQvI3PE#t=49s (here)

This isn't bioware being lazy. In fact they're being proactive by optimizing their levels.

[Stigweird85]

Interesting video there, that's the way I saw it on my first play, admittedily I didn't think of the other choices as the villains choice. Destroy was and is the only choice for me

[lex0r11]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

SO MANY BABBIES.

They need to do way instain mother>

Wow.

[EpyonX3]

lex0r11 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

SO MANY BABBIES.

They need to do way instain mother>

Wow.

Exactly.

[Stigweird85]

NeoDobby wrote...

Hmm, kind of an off-topic question: We needed to follow Kai Leng to find TIM - Miranda planted a transmitter or something on him in their fight. But we just needed to know where the Illusive Man was. Couldn't Miranda just tell us? She was in his room at the beginning of ME 2 and the Station hasn't moved since.

That's an interesting thought, although I'm not sure it's true as the planet you see during ME2 changes colour depending on your paragon/renegade status so it may not be "real"

[EpyonX3]

bigstig wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Hmm, kind of an off-topic question: We needed to follow Kai Leng to find TIM - Miranda planted a transmitter or something on him in their fight. But we just needed to know where the Illusive Man was. Couldn't Miranda just tell us? She was in his room at the beginning of ME 2 and the Station hasn't moved since.

That's an interesting thought, although I'm not sure it's true as the planet you see during ME2 changes colour depending on your paragon/renegade status so it may not be "real"

Just because Miranda was on the station doesn't mean she knew where it was. Miranda was a high ranking officer, but it's never implied, at least to me I could be wrong, that we was second in command of cerberus.

[MaximizedAction]

bigstig wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Hmm, kind of an off-topic question: We needed to follow Kai Leng to find TIM - Miranda planted a transmitter or something on him in their fight. But we just needed to know where the Illusive Man was. Couldn't Miranda just tell us? She was in his room at the beginning of ME 2 and the Station hasn't moved since.

That's an interesting thought, although I'm not sure it's true as the planet you see during ME2 changes colour depending on your paragon/renegade status so it may not be "real"

This.
The dying star in ME3 can be a different dying star than in ME2. (It is established in the Retribution novel that TIM prefers locations like these and that his space station can move)
The galaxy is big enough to have WAY more than one star on the verge of supernoving during the time of ME2 and ME3.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 06 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

Hmm, kind of an off-topic question: We needed to follow Kai Leng to find TIM - Miranda planted a transmitter or something on him in their fight. But we just needed to know where the Illusive Man was. Couldn't Miranda just tell us? She was in his room at the beginning of ME 2 and the Station hasn't moved since.

That's an interesting thought, although I'm not sure it's true as the planet you see during ME2 changes colour depending on your paragon/renegade status so it may not be "real"

Just because Miranda was on the station doesn't mean she knew where it was. Miranda was a high ranking officer, but it's never implied, at least to me I could be wrong, that we was second in command of cerberus.

She could have gotten the "blindfold" treatment, and been transported back and forth without knowing where she was being taken.