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[Salient Archer]

Ch1m3Ra wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Has anyone here read ME:Conviction or ME:Evolution?

My freind, that's like going to a church and asking if anyone has read the bible. 

So basically what you're saying is: "No, no one here has."?

lol. ^^this^^ Not gonna get into it but I speak from experience.

I have read Evolution, its an interesting read into Saren/TIM before during/after the First Contact War. Other than that its not very worth it IMO. I've never actually heard of Conviction. Seems interesting. Looking forward to the rest of the Mass Effect: Homeworlds comic. Particularily Garrus' side of the story

I just found them interesting. But first ***SPOILERS AHOY***

Conviction essentially just shows how James Vega became Shepard’s prison warden (re: body guard) but that also points out that Shepard blowing up the Alpha Relay is considered canon.

Evolution makes some more interesting points, firstly it is set 28 years before ME1 and it shows Jack Harper (aka: the Illusive man) is affected by a Reaper Artifact known as the Arch Monolith. 
This artifact essentially indoctrinates (or more specifically turns into a husk) whomever comes into contact with it, except for TIM who is effected differently. 

The reaper device is actually responsible for his eyes becoming they way we are accustomed too, so there goes the “they’re only cybernetic implants” crap the literalists band about.

The device also grants him the power to understand the Reaper dialect (actually all dialects) and also makes him attuned to the Reaper artifact (if not the Reapers themselves).

Does it actually indoctrinate him? It doesn’t actually say, if it did it means that he’s essentially indoctrinated for 3 decades; but it does show that he’s no ordinary human being and that he is irreversibly changed by the object, it’s also these series of events that lead him to start up Cerberus.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 07 mai 2012 - 12:43 .

[Salient Archer]

@MegumiAzusa funny you picked that, I was about to edit my original post because my wife and I just re-watched the scene and noticed that as well.

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...


Watch this Vid .

It clearly shows their shadows are locked to a 45 degree angle (from Sheps POV) the entire conversation.

This is especially evident when they switch sides and yet their shadows aren't subject to the room lighting at all.

This isn't physically (or virtually) possible without a lighting artist deliberately adding a locked lighting spot on each of those characters. It's either a rushed workaround for a shadow bug in the level design (doubtful for a key scene) or deliberate.

Can't check youtube videos are work sadly, I will have a look when I am at home.

The whole end scene is a little fishy as far as continunity goes though; the platform that appears on a flat floor(the one where Shep and Anderson sit against), TIM new appearence(IT evidence suggests that the whole base is made up of memories yet TIM is never seen this way before) It's all in how you interpret it

You say it had to be planned this way, I say that it can all be explained in a rush and high pressure environment(mistakes can happen, there are websites dedicated to anachronisms and bloopers from movies and TV shows). my challenge would be show those pictures to an entirely new person without context and ask them what they thought

[Salient Archer]

bigstig wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...


Watch this Vid .

It clearly shows their shadows are locked to a 45 degree angle (from Sheps POV) the entire conversation.

This is especially evident when they switch sides and yet their shadows aren't subject to the room lighting at all.

This isn't physically (or virtually) possible without a lighting artist deliberately adding a locked lighting spot on each of those characters. It's either a rushed workaround for a shadow bug in the level design (doubtful for a key scene) or deliberate.

Can't check youtube videos are work sadly, I will have a look when I am at home.

The whole end scene is a little fishy as far as continunity goes though; the platform that appears on a flat floor(the one where Shep and Anderson sit against), TIM new appearence(IT evidence suggests that the whole base is made up of memories yet TIM is never seen this way before) It's all in how you interpret it

You say it had to be planned this way, I say that it can all be explained in a rush and high pressure environment(mistakes can happen, there are websites dedicated to anachronisms and bloopers from movies and TV shows). my challenge would be show those pictures to an entirely new person without context and ask them what they thought

I'm uploading some now. 

As for TIM's appearance, Shepard knows what an indoctrinated individual looks like so it wouldn't be a far stretch of his imagination to do so. Also TIM's appearance is essentially how the Turians and Humans look when indoctrinated in ME:Evolution.

I agree that mistakes can happen (especially when EA is involved) but from a programers perspective it's actually harder to make this happen accidentally than it is deliberately.

As for you challenge, I think it would be good to do but hard to pull off without context (and bias).

Modifié par Salient Archer, 07 mai 2012 - 12:42 .

[Big Bad]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey All. No joke, I just spent the last 3.5 hours trying to make it through the fight with the Krogan Battlemaster during the mission where you recruit Liara in ME1. I started on veteran, but ended up turning the difficulty down to normal in order to beat it. I am seriously the worst gamer in the history of life!

Did you start with a fresh character on veteran? ME1's difficulty is fairly brutal if you dont follow the difficulty progression.  

Isn't Veteran the hardest one available from start? If yes I picked it right away at my first time and had no such problems oO
Though I was an Adept, and that meant pewpew crowd control.

Yeah, I think you are right.  But I actually misspoke last night - I started on hardcore, then moved down to veteran and then moved down to normal.  I think I'm just going to set it to veteran now and save hardcore for another playthrough when I'm not so underpowered.

Also, I picked Infiltrator not realizing that there is no tactical cloak.  I miss my cloak! 

[MegumiAzusa]

Big Bad wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey All. No joke, I just spent the last 3.5 hours trying to make it through the fight with the Krogan Battlemaster during the mission where you recruit Liara in ME1. I started on veteran, but ended up turning the difficulty down to normal in order to beat it. I am seriously the worst gamer in the history of life!

Did you start with a fresh character on veteran? ME1's difficulty is fairly brutal if you dont follow the difficulty progression.  

Isn't Veteran the hardest one available from start? If yes I picked it right away at my first time and had no such problems oO
Though I was an Adept, and that meant pewpew crowd control.

Yeah, I think you are right.  But I actually misspoke last night - I started on hardcore, then moved down to veteran and then moved down to normal.  I think I'm just going to set it to veteran now and save hardcore for another playthrough when I'm not so underpowered.

Also, I picked Infiltrator not realizing that there is no tactical cloak.  I miss my cloak! 

Btw is there a workaround so you don't get the overheat bug without killing your achievements?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Reaper Indoctrination Device found...that is the Indoctriantion devices from the multiplayer. I have found one of them hanging on the wall in one of the rooms Ardat-Yakshi monestary. What is even more interesting is that it can be destroyed by shooting at it...why would a Indoctrination device be there if the Reapers simply hit the Monastery in force and captured the Ardat-Yakshi to change them outright?

Gonna keep an eye out for more.

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Reaper Indoctrination Device found...that is the Indoctriantion devices from the multiplayer. I have found one of them hanging on the wall in one of the rooms Ardat-Yakshi monestary. What is even more interesting is that it can be destroyed by shooting at it...why would a Indoctrination device be there if the Reapers simply hit the Monastery in force and captured the Ardat-Yakshi to change them outright?

Gonna keep an eye out for more.

Jup, also note it is not marked in any way.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 07 mai 2012 - 12:58 .

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Reaper Indoctrination Device found...that is the Indoctriantion devices from the multiplayer. I have found one of them hanging on the wall in one of the rooms Ardat-Yakshi monestary. What is even more interesting is that it can be destroyed by shooting at it...why would a Indoctrination device be there if the Reapers simply hit the Monastery in force and captured the Ardat-Yakshi to change them outright?

Gonna keep an eye out for more.

Maybe it was a barrier generator?  Similar or the same model I think.  Barrier generators can be destroyed sometimes before or after a fight when they're not highlighted by the HUD.

[Salient Archer]

In-game #1: Shadows opposed. (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
Anderson’s pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #2: Shadows facing inward (Left: Tim, Right: Anderson)
Tim’s is still facing SE despite now being on the other side of Anderson


In-game #3: Shadows opposed (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
After switching back, Anderson’s is still pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #4: (Tim behind anderson)
Shadows are still opposed even though Tim is now directly behind Anderson.


In-game #5 (Tim down)
After Tim’s “death” the Shadows now seem to be possibly affected by the centre console’s light source; with Shep’s and Anderson’s facing south and Tim’s now facing East.

[Big Bad]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey All. No joke, I just spent the last 3.5 hours trying to make it through the fight with the Krogan Battlemaster during the mission where you recruit Liara in ME1. I started on veteran, but ended up turning the difficulty down to normal in order to beat it. I am seriously the worst gamer in the history of life!

Did you start with a fresh character on veteran? ME1's difficulty is fairly brutal if you dont follow the difficulty progression.  

Isn't Veteran the hardest one available from start? If yes I picked it right away at my first time and had no such problems oO
Though I was an Adept, and that meant pewpew crowd control.

Yeah, I think you are right.  But I actually misspoke last night - I started on hardcore, then moved down to veteran and then moved down to normal.  I think I'm just going to set it to veteran now and save hardcore for another playthrough when I'm not so underpowered.

Also, I picked Infiltrator not realizing that there is no tactical cloak.  I miss my cloak! 

Btw is there a workaround so you don't get the overheat bug without killing your achievements?

Not sure.  Actually, I don't even know what hte overheat bug is!

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...

I just found them interesting. But first ***SPOILERS AHOY***

Conviction essentially just shows how James Vega became Shepard’s prison warden (re: body guard) but that also points out that Shepard blowing up the Alpha Relay is considered canon.

interesting but contradictory as I believe that in game if you start a new ME3 game without importing then it assumes that arrival took place but was conducted by someone else...

[MegumiAzusa]

Big Bad wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey All. No joke, I just spent the last 3.5 hours trying to make it through the fight with the Krogan Battlemaster during the mission where you recruit Liara in ME1. I started on veteran, but ended up turning the difficulty down to normal in order to beat it. I am seriously the worst gamer in the history of life!

Did you start with a fresh character on veteran? ME1's difficulty is fairly brutal if you dont follow the difficulty progression.  

Isn't Veteran the hardest one available from start? If yes I picked it right away at my first time and had no such problems oO
Though I was an Adept, and that meant pewpew crowd control.

Yeah, I think you are right.  But I actually misspoke last night - I started on hardcore, then moved down to veteran and then moved down to normal.  I think I'm just going to set it to veteran now and save hardcore for another playthrough when I'm not so underpowered.

Also, I picked Infiltrator not realizing that there is no tactical cloak.  I miss my cloak! 

Btw is there a workaround so you don't get the overheat bug without killing your achievements?

Not sure.  Actually, I don't even know what hte overheat bug is!

In ME1 if you've got 2 certain achievements, dunno which atm, there is a chance that the gun doesn't cool down and you have to switch a few times before it does again, highly annoying on insanity ^^

[SubAstris]

Rifneno wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

SubAstris never has a point.

Post of the day.

What a thorough refutation of my point... Oh wait...

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...

In-game #1: Shadows opposed. (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
Anderson’s pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #2: Shadows facing inward (Left: Tim, Right: Anderson)
Tim’s is still facing SE despite now being on the other side of Anderson


In-game #3: Shadows opposed (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
After switching back, Anderson’s is still pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #4: (Tim behind anderson)
Shadows are still opposed even though Tim is now directly behind Anderson.


In-game #5 (Tim down)
After Tim’s “death” the Shadows now seem to be possibly affected by the centre console’s light source; with Shep’s and Anderson’s facing south and Tim’s now facing East.

okay I'll bite,  TIM's shadow does seem to be contradictory to the other shadows in the room I am still unconvinced about it being evidence towards IT though.

Modifié par bigstig, 07 mai 2012 - 01:32 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

SubAstris never has a point.

Post of the day.

What a thorough refutation of my point... Oh wait...

You mean like you post deep and insightful counterpoint to IT...oh wait

You asked for my reply on couple things which I posted two pages back a few hours ago, still not seeing your reply...bet you dident watch the vid I have linked you twice either...

[Salient Archer]

@bigstig I actually wasn't trying to say it was proof of IT (someone else did that) I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. What I mean is that I've noticed the odd shadows as well and from my experience with the Unreal Engine 3 and it's new lighting tech it's actually a lot harder to get the shadow directing wrong than it is to do this intentionally.

EDIT: to get Shadow Direction this wrong with UE3 you have to actually be either a) a complete brain-dead idiot or doing it on purpose.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 07 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[Uncle Jo]

SubAstris wrote...


I don't have time to respond fully and watch that video, but I will respond to your comments. The problem I see with you saying that is that Shepard's allies only want to destroy the Reapers before the choices. They see it as the only feasible way of ending the Reaper threat. This all changes however when the Catalyst comes into play and other options become available, that is control and synthesis aswell as destroy. We don't know how others would react when other options are on the table.

If that is the case, then Shepard being resurrected after falling from planetary re-entry is also impossible. Ergo, 95% of ME2 and all of ME3 is fake.

I know all about foreshadowing, however there is no clear evidence that it is foreshadowing IT here and not just reusing the common cliche of the "best way is not always the easy way".

How do you know this? It has already been stated by BW that all plot important characters on the Citadel survived, they must have survived the explosion aswell. Why not Shepard?

Let's take the ending at face-value one sec (but just one 'kay ?)...
All of what's following has been said more than once in this thread, but I don't think you read it or you're deliberately ignoring it since you always come with the same (weak) arguments..

1. If you chose Control and assuming you're crazy enough to think you're being able to control a millions years old and incredibly intelligent AI, you're not ending the cycle and the threat still remains. Furthermore you're switching sides thus betraying your own convictions and backstabbing your Allies... I don't think they would be very happy with that...

In the case of Synthesis (admitting you still don't know after dozens of hours of playing ME that's exactly the ultimate goal of the Reapers and that jumping into a energy beam is enough to make it happens) you're going to turn every single living thing in the Galaxy into a cyborg/husk without their consent.
I can reasonably suppose that you'll be, by far, the most hated being in the long, long history of the Universe...

So don't you think that Destroy still remains the best or the at least the less bad option even for your allies ?

2. Yes, the resurrection of Shep seems pretty much impossible (with the actual scientific knowledge though). But at least he re-entries the atmosphere with his armor, helmet and shields on. It's also said (and seen) that his brains remained intact along with parts of his body, so with the necessary part of suspension of disbelief, we can easily consider it possible without our mind going BSOD...

3. When are you going to understand that IT is a THEORY with its hints, clues, probabilites and as long as Bioware don't officially dismiss it, it still remains plausible/possible ? That nothing till then can be 100 % proven true or false ?

4.Why Shep can't survive on the Citadel ? Maybe because he took the tank explosion in his/her face at point-blank range without armor, shields, helmet, whatsoever  (I won't speak about the second one and so on) ? Even the Starbrat disappeared, so no space magical protection. Perhaps the other characters in the Citadel could survive, but no way in hell he/she did...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 07 mai 2012 - 02:08 .

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...

@bigstig I actually wasn't trying to say it was proof of IT (someone else did that) I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. What I mean is that I've noticed the odd shadows as well and from my experience with the Unreal Engine 3 and it's new lighting tech it's actually a lot harder to get the shadow directing wrong than it is to do this intentionally.

EDIT: to get Shadow Direction this wrong with UE3 you have to actually be either a) a complete brain-dead idiot or doing it on purpose.

Fair enough, thanks for the pictures and explaination, I have no experience with UE3 other than games so I wouldn't know how shadows are made using it

[Salient Archer]

bigstig wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

In-game #1: Shadows opposed. (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
Anderson’s pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #2: Shadows facing inward (Left: Tim, Right: Anderson)
Tim’s is still facing SE despite now being on the other side of Anderson


In-game #3: Shadows opposed (Left: Anderson, Right: Tim)
After switching back, Anderson’s is still pointing SW and Tim’s pointing SE


In-game #4: (Tim behind anderson)
Shadows are still opposed even though Tim is now directly behind Anderson.


In-game #5 (Tim down)
After Tim’s “death” the Shadows now seem to be possibly affected by the centre console’s light source; with Shep’s and Anderson’s facing south and Tim’s now facing East.

okay I'll bite, TIM's shadow does seem to be contradictory to the other shadows in the room I am still unconvinced about it being evidence towards IT though.

@bigstig I actually wasn't trying to say it was proof of IT (someone else did that) I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. What I mean is that I've noticed the odd shadows as well and from my experience with the Unreal Engine 3 and it's new lighting tech it's actually a lot harder to get the shadow directing wrong than it is to do this intentionally.

EDIT: to get Shadow Direction this wrong with UE3 you have to actually be either a) a complete brain-dead idiot or doing it on purpose.

[Salient Archer]

@bigstig No problem'o man. Just thought I'd give some insight into the issue as It was one of those things that irked me a little bit about that scene.

For more info on the UE3 lighting this website gives some insight.

http://waylon-art.co...09-Lighting.htm

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...

@bigstig No problem'o man. Just thought I'd give some insight into the issue as It was one of those things that irked me a little bit about that scene.

For more info on the UE3 lighting this website gives some insight.

http://waylon-art.co...09-Lighting.htm

And that's why I will never make it as a games developer  a very interesting read although I think I understood less than half

[MegumiAzusa]

Salient Archer wrote...

@bigstig No problem'o man. Just thought I'd give some insight into the issue as It was one of those things that irked me a little bit about that scene.

For more info on the UE3 lighting this website gives some insight.

http://waylon-art.co...09-Lighting.htm

A quote from that article telling you exactly what you have to do to have the kind of weirdness we have here:

There are lots of other flags though, and you’re free to use these as you need. For instance – say you wanted a spotlight to affect a floor, but not the walls next to it. You could set up the spotlight so that only “Unnamed_1” is checked, then make sure “Unnamed_1” is also checked in the properties of that floor mesh.

As you can see: you have to deliberately match the light and object if you don't want lights that affects everything.

[paxxton]

I was just replaying the beginning of ME2. If Harbinger wants Shepard alive, why kill him then? Or did he make up his mind later on?

Modifié par paxxton, 07 mai 2012 - 02:09 .

[Unschuld]

My non-IT explanation for the shadows dancing around in that scene would be that it was an undesirable but unavoidable side effect for getting the lighting the way they wanted it on the characters (namely, their faces) during the cutscene.

Modifié par Unschuld, 07 mai 2012 - 02:11 .