57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Boradam wrote...

Yeah, the Captial ships would be slightly unique in their skeletal structure underneath the Reaper shell/exoskeleton being that it would be based off that of their origin species if that assumption is correct, but we don't actually know in what way Reapers are supposed to be unique.

Take your Prothean Reaper idea for example; if Harbinger is indeed a Prothean Reaper we'd only be able to guess or speculate on that because of some similarities, but if we saw the inside of Harbinger without it's shell we'd be able to see clearly (enough, at least) if it was a Prothean from the structure underneath, but not from the shell on the outside.

I hope that made sense (and I think you are agreeing with me, but I just wanted to make it clear in case anyone else has opposing thoughts for it.)

Yes, I was agreeing.  I just like repeating that "other races=destroyers" bit of the lore because not enough folks know it and it's interesting.  
They vary a reasonable bit on the outside even, if the ending of ME2 is anything to go by.  We saw a pretty interesting variance of capital ship appearings in that short clip.  Quick google search gave me this, not the best shot but it illistrates well enough how they varied in 2:

[Tirian Thorn]

A thought occurs.

The vast majority of the reapers look similar if now essentially the same. Perhaps in the past when creating new reapers they have forced the form – made the “goo” conform to their designs.

Maybe there’s something about humans that made them attempt something different and create a hybrid – a human form, but with reaper technology. Shielding, mass effect fields, etc.

Or perhaps there is more diversity, it's just not shown and the same model is reused to save time.

[MaximizedAction]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

I AM THE QUEEN OF THE HARPIES!!! *prances around*

This isn't a real queen...

Problem?

ME3 Gamer poop remark fail from me...maybe should've put a smilie after it

I know what you meant lol he said Problem right before that. Did you see the third video?

 
Sad thing is, I did see it today...at 4am...apperently, little remained remembered.

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

I AM THE QUEEN OF THE HARPIES!!! *prances around*

This isn't a real queen...

Problem?

ME3 Gamer poop remark fail from me...maybe should've put a smilie after it

There's a 3rd Gamer Poop: Mass Effect 3 episode on YouTube.

"Shepard, are you ready to be a woman?"

"NOOOO!!"

[SubAstris]

aquaur wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

aquaur wrote...

Been a lurker for a while in this thread, but I'm missing a lot of content (this thread is moving so fast) so I may repeat something that has been already told.

I find it hard to discard the James quote: "do you hear that hum" considering that in mass effect 1 a similar line was used to foreshadow the ending of the game.

When you go in the presidium in the first game with different character you can get their personnal comment about things around. When you get to the mass relay monument near the presidium tower Kaidan says:  "Anyone else hear that low hum? Sounds like it's coming from that statue. Makes my teeth tingle." That single line foreshadow that indeed the relay is active and will be used at the end.

Can't find a youtube video but here's a link to the dialogue:
http://masseffect.wi...Unique_dialogue 

This may indeed being grasping straws, the point is not making this a proof or anything. My point is we should keep in mind that bioware gave away a big clue in a single line of dialogue before, I really doubt we can take random conversation so lightly and say it is just a coincidence. They did something similar on purpose in the first one, why not doing it again in ME3?

Possibly, but what exactly would it show? James is indoctrinated, or Shepard? And I must note that there is indeed a hum there

Could be anything, has I was saying in my post: I am not making a proof of this. It could mean anything because we don't have access to what really happened to anybody after the ending, no epilogue, no nothing, just random image of space magic and crew somewhere. Absolutely nothing is "concrete" explanation in the end.

There is so much missing parts that even if you take the ending literally, it is not explained what are the effect of the crucible. The Star child explanations are so vague (and you cannot ask details about them as Shepard) that it is left to your interpretation what really happened to the galaxy in the end even if you take litterally what he is saying. For example, does the cycle continue or stop after control, to what extend can Shepard control them if he's dead? And for synthesis, what is stopping the mixed Organic/Synthetic of creating more presumly bad synthetic, and restart the cycle...Does it implied that pure organic will never exist again or will they have to be process to create more organic/synthetic hybrid (like reaper do)?...etc, etc... the ending is clearly really vague (unintended pun) even from a litteral point of view. In the end we have clue about what might happen to the galaxy, but no real concrete future established.

So any clues can be interpreted in any ways because we don't have any real framework to work with. What we have is just a partial framework that can be easily be dismissed considering what the lore from the game universe (such as hallucination and indoctrination) can imply that what we see may not be real. So any theory is as good as another. It just happened that I personnally find that IT fill well the plot hole and some clues. But everything is still possible.

All I want to say with my post is that: There are clue in the game, that is for sure, but we can't know for sure, what they implied. Not everything is left to "chance" and "coincidence" or "bug".

And it is fun to speculate

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

[Fingertrip]

monrapias wrote...

Something to look at while we wait

Femshep is not an adult, I can clearly see that. Bah, I hate that GIF, what an odd representation of Galaxy's Savior.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

aquaur wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

aquaur wrote...

Been a lurker for a while in this thread, but I'm missing a lot of content (this thread is moving so fast) so I may repeat something that has been already told.

I find it hard to discard the James quote: "do you hear that hum" considering that in mass effect 1 a similar line was used to foreshadow the ending of the game.

When you go in the presidium in the first game with different character you can get their personnal comment about things around. When you get to the mass relay monument near the presidium tower Kaidan says:  "Anyone else hear that low hum? Sounds like it's coming from that statue. Makes my teeth tingle." That single line foreshadow that indeed the relay is active and will be used at the end.

Can't find a youtube video but here's a link to the dialogue:
http://masseffect.wi...Unique_dialogue 

This may indeed being grasping straws, the point is not making this a proof or anything. My point is we should keep in mind that bioware gave away a big clue in a single line of dialogue before, I really doubt we can take random conversation so lightly and say it is just a coincidence. They did something similar on purpose in the first one, why not doing it again in ME3?

Possibly, but what exactly would it show? James is indoctrinated, or Shepard? And I must note that there is indeed a hum there

Could be anything, has I was saying in my post: I am not making a proof of this. It could mean anything because we don't have access to what really happened to anybody after the ending, no epilogue, no nothing, just random image of space magic and crew somewhere. Absolutely nothing is "concrete" explanation in the end.

There is so much missing parts that even if you take the ending literally, it is not explained what are the effect of the crucible. The Star child explanations are so vague (and you cannot ask details about them as Shepard) that it is left to your interpretation what really happened to the galaxy in the end even if you take litterally what he is saying. For example, does the cycle continue or stop after control, to what extend can Shepard control them if he's dead? And for synthesis, what is stopping the mixed Organic/Synthetic of creating more presumly bad synthetic, and restart the cycle...Does it implied that pure organic will never exist again or will they have to be process to create more organic/synthetic hybrid (like reaper do)?...etc, etc... the ending is clearly really vague (unintended pun) even from a litteral point of view. In the end we have clue about what might happen to the galaxy, but no real concrete future established.

So any clues can be interpreted in any ways because we don't have any real framework to work with. What we have is just a partial framework that can be easily be dismissed considering what the lore from the game universe (such as hallucination and indoctrination) can imply that what we see may not be real. So any theory is as good as another. It just happened that I personnally find that IT fill well the plot hole and some clues. But everything is still possible.

All I want to say with my post is that: There are clue in the game, that is for sure, but we can't know for sure, what they implied. Not everything is left to "chance" and "coincidence" or "bug".

And it is fun to speculate

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

What "epics" cut off before the ending?

[SubAstris]

Uncle Jo wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


And so I will respond to your same, over-used counterpoints:

1) We have been told by the Catalyst that control is possible, albeit not completely without risk. Once given the ability to control, if there arises a conflict between organics and synthetics again, the rogue AI can be destroyed by the Reapers. Furthermore, you forget to realise that destroy would continue the cycles, and it continues without getting to use any of the Reaper's advanced tech. You are not really backstabbing your allies by ending the threat to their existence, the threat of annihilation by the Reapers, which they all want. This threat no longer exists because Shepard controls the Reapers. Backstabbing would be to kill your allies, such as the Geth, despite options to save them.

The Synthesis option is very controversial I agree. It would depend on who you talked to as far as whether they hated you. Some would because of the lack of free will and input on the decisions. However others would realise that it was a necessary decision to end the biggest threat known to the galaxy; "the best way is not always the easy way".

IMO, as of now, I am leaning more towards Control as the best option, followed by Destroy and Synthesis.

2) All I can say is that shields are not designed for planetary re-entry. The whole resurrection scene shatters suspension of disbelief as much as synthesis does.

3) Just because something cannot be disproved does not make it plausible. Common example, I can't disprove that there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, but it is implausible that there are some. Of course, these are my views.

4) I must remind you that BW has said that "ALL plot important people survive". Doesn't Shepard constitute plot important?

1. I recall that the brat said the Reapers harvest the most advanced civilizations which can create synthetics so the synthetics won't wipe out organics, blahblahblah...
Yet you mean that a rogue AI will be destroyed by Shep and his new buddies without killing organics. So why didn't the Reapers do it all along the cycles ? Were they dumb enough to not come up with this idea and needed Shep to tell them what to do ? You're contradicting yourself and the logic of the brat by saying so... And sorry, as long as the Reapers are hanging around out there, no one  will consider reasonably the threat gone, even if Shep coming in person with his brand new tentacles to tell it... No one will trust him..

"destroy would continue the cycles"
What are you talking about ? The cycle is about the Reapers (and their new boss if you want). Send them to hell and there is no cycle anymore.

Concerning the synthesis I won't argue anymore about it. I've loled hard as I've heard the starbrat saying "We need each other to make it happens" ... I don't need to remember you what happens if you merge synthetics and organics. You've killed tons of them along the three games.

2. If you say so and if you don't have a problem with an ending which is absolutely not related with the rest of the three games and makes no sense at face-value (I'm not the only one to think so and even some anti-IT are not happy with it. Don't ask me why, the reasons are well explained in this thread and many other websites), then fair enough that's your opinion. If not...

3. Bad example. You seem to forget that the IT is based on one irrefutable fact : the Reapers ability to indoctrinate. It's one of the main theme in the ME universe. It's stated and explained in the codex. And yes, there is some events and scene in-game which could be interpretated as clues/hints for the IT. Now the current conclusion of the game (ending) lacks closure (for most of the gamers), that's why it can't be fully proven or dismissed. You'll get the answer this summer.

4. You're not answering. See 2.


Anyway, I mean no offense (and I'm by far not an expert) but when I see your arguments and your knowledge of the ME Universe, I'm seriously asking myself if you ever played ME1 and ME2 or at least read some of the codex pages...

1) The Catalyst himself says that he has been changed, "The Crucible changed me". He realised that his plan won't work (this is stated very clearly in the game). Hence he has to change.

What I really meant by destroy and the cycles is that synthetics will still try to kill organics. With the Reapers on your side, it would be easier to kill them.

2) I do think a lot of the ending is bad. Just because I don't like IT doesn't mean I support the ending as it is.

3) Indoctrination isn't really a theme, it is an aspect of the story. The ability to carve out one's destiny, free will (which organics and Shepard represent) v destiny (what the Reapers entail). And just because Reaper indoctrination is possible (just like the existence of supernatural fairies), doesn't make it plausible given the game itself.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

aquaur wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

aquaur wrote...

Been a lurker for a while in this thread, but I'm missing a lot of content (this thread is moving so fast) so I may repeat something that has been already told.

I find it hard to discard the James quote: "do you hear that hum" considering that in mass effect 1 a similar line was used to foreshadow the ending of the game.

When you go in the presidium in the first game with different character you can get their personnal comment about things around. When you get to the mass relay monument near the presidium tower Kaidan says:  "Anyone else hear that low hum? Sounds like it's coming from that statue. Makes my teeth tingle." That single line foreshadow that indeed the relay is active and will be used at the end.

Can't find a youtube video but here's a link to the dialogue:
http://masseffect.wi...Unique_dialogue 

This may indeed being grasping straws, the point is not making this a proof or anything. My point is we should keep in mind that bioware gave away a big clue in a single line of dialogue before, I really doubt we can take random conversation so lightly and say it is just a coincidence. They did something similar on purpose in the first one, why not doing it again in ME3?

Possibly, but what exactly would it show? James is indoctrinated, or Shepard? And I must note that there is indeed a hum there

Could be anything, has I was saying in my post: I am not making a proof of this. It could mean anything because we don't have access to what really happened to anybody after the ending, no epilogue, no nothing, just random image of space magic and crew somewhere. Absolutely nothing is "concrete" explanation in the end.

There is so much missing parts that even if you take the ending literally, it is not explained what are the effect of the crucible. The Star child explanations are so vague (and you cannot ask details about them as Shepard) that it is left to your interpretation what really happened to the galaxy in the end even if you take litterally what he is saying. For example, does the cycle continue or stop after control, to what extend can Shepard control them if he's dead? And for synthesis, what is stopping the mixed Organic/Synthetic of creating more presumly bad synthetic, and restart the cycle...Does it implied that pure organic will never exist again or will they have to be process to create more organic/synthetic hybrid (like reaper do)?...etc, etc... the ending is clearly really vague (unintended pun) even from a litteral point of view. In the end we have clue about what might happen to the galaxy, but no real concrete future established.

So any clues can be interpreted in any ways because we don't have any real framework to work with. What we have is just a partial framework that can be easily be dismissed considering what the lore from the game universe (such as hallucination and indoctrination) can imply that what we see may not be real. So any theory is as good as another. It just happened that I personnally find that IT fill well the plot hole and some clues. But everything is still possible.

All I want to say with my post is that: There are clue in the game, that is for sure, but we can't know for sure, what they implied. Not everything is left to "chance" and "coincidence" or "bug".

And it is fun to speculate

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

What "epics" cut off before the ending?

Epics where not everything is completely finished and tied up, there are still important things to happen

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

What "epics" cut off before the ending?

Epics where not everything is completely finished and tied up, there are still important things to happen

I asked for an example...

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

What "epics" cut off before the ending?

Epics where not everything is completely finished and tied up, there are still important things to happen

I asked for an example...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

[MaximizedAction]

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 07 mai 2012 - 07:13 .

[paxxton]

SubAstris wrote...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

WHAT!? You should've put a spoiler warning before saying that.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 mai 2012 - 07:14 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I'm not sure if you can compare Iliad and Mass Effect.

[SubAstris]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I'm not sure if you can compare Iliad and Mass Effect.

I was specifically asked for an epic which didn't tie up every loose end, I provided one

[SubAstris]

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

WHAT!? You should've put a spoiler warning before saying that.

I assumed that people wouldn't mind the plot of 2,700 year old book being ruined... I guess I was wrong

[Stigweird85]

SubAstris wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I'm not sure if you can compare Iliad and Mass Effect.

I was specifically asked for an epic which didn't tie up every loose end, I provided one

Peter F Hamilton books are often described as epics yet very rarely does a single book tie up all loose ends. The Hobbit sets up the events of Lord of the rings. 

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

We have some explanation, for example, if you pick destroy you see the destruction of the Reapers, if you pick synthesis, at the end you see circuitry on organics etc.

It is a common thing in an epic stop to cut off before the ending, prematurely often.

What "epics" cut off before the ending?

Epics where not everything is completely finished and tied up, there are still important things to happen

I asked for an example...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

First of all, it's important to remember that the Iliad isn't the story of the whole Trojan War, but only of a few weeks toward the end of it. During those weeks, the focus is squarely on the figure of Achilleus, the greatest warrior of the Achaians. Even more specifically, the focus is on the anger of Achilleus, and its consequences. When Achilleus gives Hektor's body back to the Trojans for proper burial, the cycle of his anger is complete. At the same time, we know through some pretty heavy foreshadowing that Achilleus is going to die soon, so we feel that the story of his life is complete too, even if we don't get to see every detail of how it plays out.

Of course, there are some deeper thematic reasons for ending with the funeral of Hektor too – stuff about our common humanity transcending our differences.

The main point of all this is it had a reason to end where it did, so the reader can answer some questions for themself. Similar to Mass Effect 3.

Thank you for complying SubAstris

Modifié par balance5050, 07 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[Tirian Thorn]

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

WHAT!? You should've put a spoiler warning before saying that.

I assumed that people wouldn't mind the plot of 2,700 year old book being ruined... I guess I was wrong

Well, I didn't read it yet because I'm waiting for him to finish the trilogy he planned and I want to read them all back to back... 

[paxxton]

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

For example, Homer's Iliad, doesn't end with the fall of Troy

WHAT!? You should've put a spoiler warning before saying that.

I assumed that people wouldn't mind the plot of 2,700 year old book being ruined... I guess I was wrong

That was  ...a joke.

[HellishFiend]

Salient Archer wrote...


I just found them interesting. But first ***SPOILERS AHOY***

Conviction essentially just shows how James Vega became Shepard’s prison warden (re: body guard) but that also points out that Shepard blowing up the Alpha Relay is considered canon.

Evolution makes some more interesting points, firstly it is set 28 years before ME1 and it shows Jack Harper (aka: the Illusive man) is affected by a Reaper Artifact known as the Arch Monolith. 
This artifact essentially indoctrinates (or more specifically turns into a husk) whomever comes into contact with it, except for TIM who is effected differently. 

The reaper device is actually responsible for his eyes becoming they way we are accustomed too, so there goes the “they’re only cybernetic implants” crap the literalists band about.

The device also grants him the power to understand the Reaper dialect (actually all dialects) and also makes him attuned to the Reaper artifact (if not the Reapers themselves).

Does it actually indoctrinate him? It doesn’t actually say, if it did it means that he’s essentially indoctrinated for 3 decades; but it does show that he’s no ordinary human being and that he is irreversibly changed by the object, it’s also these series of events that lead him to start up Cerberus.

Exactly. I find it completely implausible to believe that the Reaper artifact simply derped and gave him a bunch of abilities and blue eyes but didnt impose any of its will on him. 

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Reaper Indoctrination Device found...that is the Indoctriantion devices from the multiplayer. I have found one of them hanging on the wall in one of the rooms Ardat-Yakshi monestary. What is even more interesting is that it can be destroyed by shooting at it...why would a Indoctrination device be there if the Reapers simply hit the Monastery in force and captured the Ardat-Yakshi to change them outright?

Gonna keep an eye out for more.

What?? This is a pretty significant find!

MaximizedAction wrote...

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

You forgot TIM's escorts! I dont think Asari Matriarchs come cheap....

[NeoDobby]

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

You forgot TIM's escorts! I dont think Asari Matriarchs come cheap....

And I don't suppose there's water in that glass...

[paxxton]

NeoDobby wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

You forgot TIM's escorts! I dont think Asari Matriarchs come cheap....

And I don't suppose there's water in that glass...

It's '47 Thessia Red.

[Tirian Thorn]

NeoDobby wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

You forgot TIM's escorts! I dont think Asari Matriarchs come cheap....

And I don't suppose there's water in that glass...

TIM is the Bender of the Mass Effect universe.  Except he rarely has to use the phrase "upside his head."  

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 07 mai 2012 - 07:43 .

[MaximizedAction]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

NeoDobby wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Due to a rather slow speculation-Monday, here's an off-topic pie chart of Cerberus' budget - in case you ever wondered:

You forgot TIM's escorts! I dont think Asari Matriarchs come cheap....

And I don't suppose there's water in that glass...

TIM is the Bender of the Mass Effect universe.  Except he rarely has to use the phrase "upside his head."  

"Yeah, well, I'm gonna build my own Reapers, with Blackjack...and hookers!"

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 07 mai 2012 - 07:47 .