[quote]HellishFiend wrote...
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
I think shadows are stretching it a bit, it's entirely possible that it's just a minor visual bug. Like when you can see Shepard's shadow Under the raised platform after you pass out.[/quote]
Yes, the shadows are glitchy, but no, that does not mean that shadows disobey the direction of the light source at any other part of the game. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, this is the
only part of the game where objects/characters have shadows that directionally defy the lighting.[/quote]
It's not the only instance... 
[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Bit offtopic but some time ago I had this fun idea of trying to find songs that fit IT:
So far I have foudn four which made me think of the IT in different ways.
Back in the Loop by E-TYPE
This one might fit ME2 better due to Shepards ressurection, but it could also easily go with a video on the final assult on Earth and the "Snap out of it now" as well as other parts of the text is mostly what makes me think of IT.
Me against the World by Simple Plan
Now this one makes me think of this thread and the people here more than the actual game. With all the people against us it is us against the world (or the fanbase) at least that is how it felt for a long time.
Wake me up Inside by Evanscence
This one is entirely for Shepard and Indoctrination as should be quite clear. It is time for Shepard to wake up inside and finish the fight.
Just a fun side project I have, anyone else have an idea for songs which fit IT?[/quote]
Pilot - Magic. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie] Not IT per se but... bah. I had to take the opportunity to link that gem.
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
[quote]byne wrote...
On an unrelated note, I was playing Dragon Age: Origins earlier, and I played Darkspawn Chronicles, just for the hell of it. After they release DLC fixing the endings of ME3, they should release a Darkspawn Chronicles-esque DLC that assumes Shepard died at the end of ME2, and you play as some indoctrinated soldier and just screw up everyone's day.
I'd play that. Maybe I would be able to kill the Dalatrass finally.[/quote]
No you play as Kai Leng, that would be awwwesome.
* /)^3^(\\ *[/quote]
I for one support this proposition. Never played Darkspawn Chronicles myself but I did play
Emissary which was bloody fantastic, if a bit too short.
[quote]prettz wrote...
hear a vid of vent boy don't think it can be to helpfule for Indoctrination Theory but it give a new perspective.
www.youtube.com/watchhears a vid of the tree refections at the end of the game.
youtu.be/rTopy1amQRc[/quote]
Thanks. The reflections vid really shows off well that even from the player's perspective they were clearly visible if you had a keen eye. This is
not something the level designers/builders could have missed.
*****
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
Agreed. I believe in IT and everytime I look my belief gets stronger, but I must be intellectually honest and admit that it may not, indeed, be true- only the EC will confirm it one way or another.
Anyway, I actually tried to debunk all of the individual pieces of evidence, and it's fairly easy to debunk them individually. But when you put them all together, it's pretty hard to ignore the pattern:
Taking an extremely skeptical eye to the IT indicators:[/quote]
Right. I’m game
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The trees in the end sequence: As frequently pointed out, there are indeed trees on the right-hand side prior to the moment IT supposes the dream sequence starts. DEBUNKED[/quote]
While you can see similar dead trees on the right hand side before you are blasted, the dead trees you see when waking up are towards the left almost immediatley behind you. You can see some dead tress on the far left before the blast but they're far more spread out.[/quote]
Trees and shrubs appear out of nowhere after Harbinger’s attack. There’s also the theory that the indoctrination dream began when the shuttle mysteriously crashes without anyone’s acknowledgement right before the run for the Conduit. And for the third god damn time I’m gonna say it again: even if that run was still reality you have to remember that there’s a honking great reaper standing approximately right there. With its indoctrination field, that’s known to cause hallucinations. (See: Derelict Reaper)
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The wound to Shepard's side: Could have been made during the battle- she does seem to clutch her side prior to shooting Andersen. DEBUNKED[/quote]
That wound could have been sustained from Harbingers beam, NOT by Maurader Shields since he obviously shoots you in the upper right torso (your right arm flings backward). If it was from Harbingers beam why aren't there other areas of Shepard's body that bleed as profusley. Example, Shepard's head is exposed and yo ucan clearly see bloodied portions of armor along his/her legs and arms, but none of these bleed any worse than what we see. In addition, Anderson holds the exact spot after he is shot.[/quote]
Precisely. We’ve no idea where that gutshot actually came from.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The child and the dream sequences: As has been noted, these could just be a symbolic examination of the mounting toll of the war on Shepard. DEBUNKED[/quote]
The Nightmares, and the child, can be seen as PTSD or a sign that Shepard is tired of this war and of losing people. But, the fact that the Catalyst takes the form of this child shows that it can see inside Shepard's head.[/quote]
This. That the Catalyst appears as the child is proof that Shepard’s mind has been subverted somehow. As for PTSD, we see actual examples of more realistic PTSD with the asari at Heurta Memorial as well as Kelly Chambers. Shepard doesn’t display the same aversion to proximity of situations that resemble those that triggered the disorder. Granted, Shepard’s ability to keep going despite accumulating so much psychological baggage is likely one the reasons they were considered for Spectre status but still.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
Shepard's eyes: Could be a coincidence that they turn blue in the control/synthesis options. Lots of things are blue, it's one of the primary colours. DEBUNKED[/quote]
Blue being a primary color is not sufficient evidence to debunk a Bioware scene that is central around specific colors. Shepard's eye appear as exact copy of The Illusive Man's eyes, down to thet very last detail. This cannot be Shepard's cybernetic eyes showing since they are in the opposite formation and of different design (very bright center while TIMs are a light circle around the pupil). This can mean that you're under The Illusive Man's influence or, more likely, you are being circumvented with Reaper tech by intereacting with the Control option or Synthesis beam, much how TIM got his eyes and Husk's get theres. As seen, it can lead to Indoctrintion both subtle and direct.[/quote]
Bioware had the assets for the red eyes. They’re used all the time. Why would they change those assets in those pivotal scenes? If they just wanted to show Shepard disintegrating then showing the default red eyes would make far more sense.[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The breath: The rubble could be on the Citadel, and space magic could have protected Shepard from the blast. In fact, space magic could have protected Shepard even if he fell to earth from the Citadel. Space magic also protected him from the destroy option destroying all technology. DEBUNKED...uh, sort of... [/quote]
The rubble is clearly from London, you can see specific aesthetic grooves on rubble London when going through cutscenes and battle, too similar for coincidence in the Breath scene's level of detail. The Reaper cables shown (that's not rebar, do not make me break out my screenshot comparisons) could easily be from the Citadel, or from the Beam structure. There's more in the Breath scene that I have no clue where comes from (could be Reaper tech, could be Alliance tech), it's almost too much to speculate on.[/quote]
The point of this thread is not to accept that A Wizard Did It. The rubble is most definitely concrete, as it uses the same models and textures as concrete blocks we’ve seen all over the rest of the game. The cables could be rebar or it could just be normal reaper cables from a reaper structure, mostly likely from around the Conduit.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The 'reflection' trees in the cubemap: I honestly can't think of an explanation for this, outside some kind of bug. NOT DEBUNKED[/quote]
The cube map itself seems like unintended evidence. I have a hard time seeing things extracted from the game's assets as evidence if it is nearly impossible to see without ripping the assets out.[/quote]
Check out the video that I quoted above. It becomes far more obvious during the Catalyst’s dialogue cutscene. The cubemap is used. Which means that at some point in development the reflections were meant to be there.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The musical cues: The game was being rushed into production and they probably just slapped whatever music they had available onto the scenes, so any inferences drawn from the music will be flawed. DEBUNKED[/quote]
Music has been integral to Bioware's storytelling, highs and lows, triumphs and failures. You can almost feel the sheer emotion coming off of the ending sequence music "An End Once and For All." Music queues might be reused at times but during important things, it is essential to the Bioware experience and I do not believe they would skip on that during Nightmares, the opening, the ending, the Citadel encounter, etc. [/quote]
Pretty much. Bioware has always used its music with purpose. Even the elevator music in ME1 used a spin off the main theme particularly to lighten the mood. Music was a narrative tool throughout the series, and it’s not something you just slap on.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The 'garden world': Okay, so in the extended DLC, what they will reveal is that in the moments after the final charge in London, Joker:
a. bought the ship down to London.
b. Told EDI, Liara and Garrus to get on board. Even though this is something that Liara and Garrus would NEVER DO, they did it for some reason. Y'know, cause bad writing.
c. After picking them up, Joker inexplicably high-tailed it to the nearest Mass Relay.
d. After the Mass Relay overloads, the Normandy survived the overloads because of space magic.
e. After surviving the overload explosion, the Normandy crash landed on a garden paradise. EDI was not killed by the 'destroy' option because space magic.
NOT DEBUNKED. This makes no sense. The 'literal' explanation does not explain this. IT does. When you remove all other alternatives, whatever remains, no matter how improbably, is the truth. [/quote]
The garden world..... Hell if I know, I'm waiting until EC for sure. But honestly, it all does look too good to be true. Joker picking them up and hitting a Mass Relay JUST IN TIME for the wave to hit, the Normandy obviously being torn apart at FTL speeds and crash landing almost perfectly, it's occupants still alive (unless you got the really bad red ending). Your LI even stops out to reassure the player they made it out alive. So far as the hero dying to save his friends/ LI/The Galaxy, it's perfect...Too perfect. [/quote]
Doesn’t help that the Crucible’s rainbowsplosion is completely inconsistent. Low-EMS destroy ruins Earth but not the Garden World. High-EMS control and synthesis shouldn’t destroy technology, and yet Normandy is damaged. Lolwut? Easier to dismiss the whole thing as a final vision of hope for Shepard, throughout the series Shepard was unable to save those close to them, unable to save innocents, but in the end they did manage to at least save their crew.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The 'stargazer' epilogue: The line just before 'one more story' explains that what we just saw 'really happened'. Evidence cancels itself out. DEBUNKED[/quote]
Stargazer could be telling the story of how Shepard resisted Indoctrination, or rose from the dead to stop the Reapers, we don't hear exactly what he says we're left to assume he told our story without so much detail as we played through. "One More Story," can easily mean "Shepard isn't finished yet." [/quote]
That whole scene is a great load of nothing coming after what we just saw.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The black distortion: This could just be a sign that the Illusive Man is trying to exert control over you. DEBUNKED[/quote]
If you mean the oily tentacles/shadows in the corners of the screen, since TIM assumes direct control of you it is obviously a sign of Indoctrination from Shepard's perspective (since we see it in the corners we can say with some certainty Shepard sees them in the corner of his/her eyes). We see all-too similar shadows in our Nightmares about the boy. We also hear the same whispers from the dreams during this exchange. [/quote]
The scene was blatantly obvious. Either TIM or the reapers through TIM was trying to control Shepard. IT states that there was more to the indoctrination attempt than that. It’d be kind of lame if it was just that. You don’t introduce a narrative device like that, build on it, and then unceremoniously dump it on one scene and then forget it.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The 'hum' on the Normandy: Engine trouble. DEBUNKED[/quote]
"Do you hear that hum?" It could easily be the Normandy's drive core subtle hum. Or maybe one of the shuttle's drive cores. Or maybe the sound of FTL inside the cargo hold. Too complex for a throw-away line, not strong enough to be solid evidence. [/quote]
Conservation of Detail: That shouldn’t have been a throw-away line.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
The voice of the Star Child: Even if the ending sequence is real, it seems clear the Catalyst took the form of the child because it represented your guilt over his death- so the voices in your mind could just be a side effect of whatever process the catalyst used to gain this information and present it to you. DEBUNKED[/quote]
The voices the Catalysts uses, from Shepard's perspective, is his/her own the boys and a stranger's (male if your female Shepard, vice versa). This itself is a very eerie choice for a complex exchange with a Reaper controlling AI. Why not just one voice. If it is a side effect, why would Shepard hear a stranger's voice mixed in with his/her own and the boys? [/quote]
Why did the Catalyst take the form of the child if not to emotionally manipulate Shepard? Why use Shepard’s voice? Remember, up until the Crucible docked with the Citadel the Catalyst, if it was the real deal and the creator of the reapers, was the enemy. And we still don’t know what the Crucible really was or what it did even after seeing it in action, sort of.
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Destructorlio wrote...
Andersen and The Illusive Man: Andersen mentioned that the walls in the Citadel were moving, shifting- this could explain how he got to the console before you, even though there appeared to be no other way in or out. The Illusive Man would have prepared for this moment for years so no doubt had a secret way to arrange his presence on the Citadel. DEBUNKED... except for the shadows (bug!)[/quote]
You strike true. I believe it is possible for Anderson to get to the panel before you, and the path he used simply shifted before you could see. Interestingly enough, when playing through the ending again I noticed the sound of a door opening Before the door you use to get to the chasm, around this time Anderson mentions seeing the chasm...or maybe it was the walls shifting. If that is the case then why don't we hear Anderson's path shifting once we're close enough? The Illusive Man could have been following Shepard, but making himself appear as a shadow or something given his new Mind Powers. OR, if he is a part of the illusion, or the cause of the Indoctrination, it stands to reason that he casually walks out from behind your back when he obviously wasn't phsycially there before.[/quote]
We’ve never seen the Citadel’s structure change nor did we have reason to believe that it did so before that scene.
By the way, I want to finish this wall off with a quote from TIM himself.
[quote]The Illusive Man said…
The patterns are there, buried in the data.[/quote]
Modifié par Simon_Says, 07 mai 2012 - 09:07 .
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