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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#52851
balance5050

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

What did the red pill do in the matrix?

What did the red explosion do in mass effect?

They made you wake up.



Hmmmm.... you're right :blink:

also, since we were talking about the derelict reaper a few pages ago: Why has nobody mentioned the biggest wtf-log, where people see something moving in an AIRVENT?


Are you implying that there is a log of someone seeing something moving in an airvent on the derelict reaper?

#52852
gunslinger_ruiz

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

What did the red pill do in the matrix?

What did the red explosion do in mass effect?

They made you wake up.



Hmmmm.... you're right :blink:

also, since we were talking about the derelict reaper a few pages ago: Why has nobody mentioned the biggest wtf-log, where people see something moving in an AIRVENT?


Thought they were talking about a panel, not a vent.

Take the blue pill, stay in wonderland o_O....

Problem, there is no green pill.

#52853
gunslinger_ruiz

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Just heard a motorcycle revving a block away, swore it was a Reaper howl for a second.... I think I may be playing too much ME3 :). Or at least playing too much at night.

#52854
Earthborn_Shepard

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

What did the red pill do in the matrix?

What did the red explosion do in mass effect?

They made you wake up.



Hmmmm.... you're right :blink:

also, since we were talking about the derelict reaper a few pages ago: Why has nobody mentioned the biggest wtf-log, where people see something moving in an AIRVENT?


Thought they were talking about a panel, not a vent.

Take the blue pill, stay in wonderland o_O....

Problem, there is no green pill.


might have been a panel, I'll try to find the dialogue...

either way.. apparently iD makes you see creatures that aren't there...

EDIT: found it:

Cerberus Scientist: Third day with this headache. You'd think Chandana would have let me take a few hours off.
Goddamn!
Cerberus Researcher: What?
Cerberus Scientist:
That thing that just… gray thing! It disappeared when I looked straight
at it. Came out of the damn wall! Where we took off that panel.

Modifié par Earthborn_Shepard, 08 mai 2012 - 08:29 .


#52855
Stigweird85

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DJBare wrote...

bigstig wrote...
If you assume TIM is controlling via some form of indoctrination he has somehow cured the side effect of indoctrination In as much as both Shepard and Anderson retain their minds which goes against everything we know so the literal interpretation TIM not only cracks reaper tech but improves on it? It's just not possible

Can we, hummm, just get something cleared up, assuming that anything is even real during the discussions between Shepard, Anderson and TIM, we learned later the Reapers already controlled TIM, so if anyone was controlling Shepard and Anderson, it was not TIM, he was just a conduite.


Catch 22 - if Tim is nothing more than a conduit for the reapers, then it is the reapers taking control of Shepard and Anderson which cannot be done without indoctrination. So if the scene is Literal then Shepard is/has been indoctrinated at this stage and anything that comes after is in doubt

#52856
Icinix

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

What did the red pill do in the matrix?

What did the red explosion do in mass effect?

They made you wake up.



Hmmmm.... you're right :blink:

also, since we were talking about the derelict reaper a few pages ago: Why has nobody mentioned the biggest wtf-log, where people see something moving in an AIRVENT?


Thought they were talking about a panel, not a vent.

Take the blue pill, stay in wonderland o_O....

Problem, there is no green pill.


might have been a panel, I'll try to find the dialogue...

either way.. apparently iD makes you see creatures that aren't there...

EDIT: found it:

Cerberus Scientist: Third day with this headache. You'd think Chandana would have let me take a few hours off.
Goddamn!
Cerberus Researcher: What?
Cerberus Scientist:
That thing that just… gray thing! It disappeared when I looked straight
at it. Came out of the damn wall! Where we took off that panel.



OMG! THE KID IS WEARING A GREY JUMPER!!!

Seriously though, every symptom of Indoctrination is accounted for through ME3.

#52857
BleedingUranium

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Just heard a motorcycle revving a block away, swore it was a Reaper howl for a second.... I think I may be playing too much ME3 :). Or at least playing too much at night.


Well, today I read an ice cream label that said "Premium Ice Cream" as "Presidium Ice Cream" Posted Image

#52858
TSA_383

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

What did the red pill do in the matrix?

What did the red explosion do in mass effect?

They made you wake up.



Hmmmm.... you're right :blink:

also, since we were talking about the derelict reaper a few pages ago: Why has nobody mentioned the biggest wtf-log, where people see something moving in an AIRVENT?


Thought they were talking about a panel, not a vent.

Take the blue pill, stay in wonderland o_O....

Problem, there is no green pill.

The matrix pills were red/green

"Take the green pill shepard, and you will live forever in a peaceful utopia
Take the red pill, and you will be returned to earth to continue the fight
Take the blue pill, and you will maintain a single continuous erection for 36 hours."
-The new ME3 ending, sponsored by Pfizer :lol:

#52859
BleedingUranium

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What I want out of EC, other than IT confirmation, is this, from this fanfic:

http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125

We want to see those War Assets fighting. The Destiny Ascension obliterating a Reaper with it's main gun before being swarmed over by Destroyers, the Geth armada pulling along side to save her. The Salarian STG calling in a biotic artillery strike on cluster of Reaper troops. Wrex and Garrus, on the front sharing a stern moment in cover, before nodding to each other, brothers in arms, before charging over the barricade. Back to back, they face down hordes of husks, Wrex shouting defiantly, "You think you can take our future!? You think YOU CAN TAKE MY CHILDREN?!"
We want to see the Quarian flotilla scrambling, all guns blazing, trying desperately to form a battleline, as one of the admirals quietly turns to their crew, signalling his ship all ahead full. "For the homeworld. Keela..." their words cut off as the live-ship rams a Reaper, exploding spectacularly and damaging two others. We want to see the Normandy frantically weaving through the wreckage, Joker and EDI yelling warnings to one another as the fleets explode around them. We want Tali leading a charge of Geth Primes against a Cannibal gun line. Rachni drones swarming over a Reaper Destroyer by the thousands, pulling it apart from the inside. We want to see Grunt wrestle a brute to the ground and unload his shotgun into his head.


Posted Image

#52860
Earthborn_Shepard

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After the first sentence I was already preparing to get a nerdrage outbreak "OMG THE MATRIX PILL WAS BLUE NOT GREEN"

#52861
gunslinger_ruiz

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BleedingUranium wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Just heard a motorcycle revving a block away, swore it was a Reaper howl for a second.... I think I may be playing too much ME3 :). Or at least playing too much at night.


Well, today I read an ice cream label that said "Premium Ice Cream" as "Presidium Ice Cream" Posted Image


Presidium Ice Cream must be for the rich part of the Citadel. Bastards hogging all the good stuff.

#52862
Stigweird85

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duranii wrote...

To be honest, I was a firm believer in the indoctrination theory until I decided to research the facts and saw the other side of the coin. There's more ACTUAL evidence AGAINST the theory than there is FOR it. A lot of the IT relies on speculation and what I call "leaps of logic."

This video was pretty much the last straw that caused me to completely doubt the indoctrination theory. View it fully. It was well made in my opinion: www.youtube.com/watch

Skip to 3:30 to see the most damning evidence against the theory if you don't want to see the whole thing. Thing is, the things that disprove the theory can actually be seen and confirmed as fact because they ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN GAME.


Some interesting points but not definitive - for example it Asks when in game can reapers do long range indoctrination- Answer ME2, Harbringer assumes control over the collectors while he is in dark space. That's pretty long range to me, if he can do this then he can certainly do it when he is in the same solar system. 

#52863
gunslinger_ruiz

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

After the first sentence I was already preparing to get a nerdrage outbreak "OMG THE MATRIX PILL WAS BLUE NOT GREEN"


Hah, yeah so was I. Though I did look up a techno remix of it on youtube to avoid the caps rage.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 08 mai 2012 - 09:10 .


#52864
Raistlin Majare 1992

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bigstig wrote...

duranii wrote...

To be honest, I was a firm believer in the indoctrination theory until I decided to research the facts and saw the other side of the coin. There's more ACTUAL evidence AGAINST the theory than there is FOR it. A lot of the IT relies on speculation and what I call "leaps of logic."

This video was pretty much the last straw that caused me to completely doubt the indoctrination theory. View it fully. It was well made in my opinion: www.youtube.com/watch

Skip to 3:30 to see the most damning evidence against the theory if you don't want to see the whole thing. Thing is, the things that disprove the theory can actually be seen and confirmed as fact because they ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN GAME.


Some interesting points but not definitive - for example it Asks when in game can reapers do long range indoctrination- Answer ME2, Harbringer assumes control over the collectors while he is in dark space. That's pretty long range to me, if he can do this then he can certainly do it when he is in the same solar system. 


Oh and every single side mission throughout ME1 and 2 where we dealt with husks in places with Reaper artifacts. Most intersting case is Object Rho from ME2 Arrival (you know DLC advertised as beeing important to ME3) where an entire team of sciencetists were Indoctrinated by proximity to a Reaper Artifact...

Another example also include a side mission in ME2 taking you to a Mine where all the iners had been turned into Husks after digging out a reaper Artifact (which was not a Dragon Tooth by the way)

Oh and then we also have a Hanar in the Kasumi side mission in ME3 which was Indoctrinated by a Reaper Artifact...

Yeah they totaly cannot Indoctrinate on the long range...

As for the shuttle thing in the Vid. I dont know if the Soldier is truly looking at the kid, he could be looking at the shuttle as well and it is not really important anyway...but the timing of the shuttle taking of after the kid is on board could simply be the timing of the vision. Like the vision reacts to what Shepard actually sees, so when the shuttle is getting ready to leave the vision of the kid climbs aboard.

Still dosent change that there were soldiers helping other civilians on board, but ignoring the kid even as he climbs aboard.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 08 mai 2012 - 09:27 .


#52865
TSA_383

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Some more stuff for speculation:

In some of the original leaked material, there was the character at the end called "Guardian", which it appears has just been renamed "Catalyst" after they cut Javik from the main game and he could no longer be the Catalyst as was originally intended.

The original files have this at the end:
The platform Shepard was on begins to rise up into GUARDIAN's garden where he is faced with his final decision.

Once Shepard reaches the top of the elevator he begins a conversation with GUARDIAN where all the mysteries of the universe are revealed.

ACTION:

Shepard must now make his final decision - to control the Reapers, to destroy the Reapers, or if they had a perfect game to become one with the Reapers.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692544</id>
        <position>11452</position>
        <data>Control Reapers</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692545</id>
        <position>11453</position>
        <data>Leap of Synergy.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692557</id>
        <position>11454</position>
        <data>Destroy Reapers</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692558</id>
        <position>11455</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard leaps off the edge of the platform becoming one with the Reapers.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692559</id>
        <position>11456</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard places his hands into the control mechanism and gains control over the Reapers. Earth is destroyed, and the Reapers leave.

</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692560</id>
        <position>11457</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is also Destroyed.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692579</id>
        <position>11458</position>
        <data>Press A to continue.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692721</id>
        <position>11459</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard places his hands into the control mechanism and gains control over the Reapers. Earth is okay, and the Reapers leave.
</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692722</id>
        <position>11460</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed.  Earth is devastated.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692723</id>
        <position>11461</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed.  Earth is okay.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>692724</id>
        <position>11462</position>
        <data>CUTSCENE:

The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed.  Earth is okay. Shepard survives.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>694314</id>
        <position>11463</position>
        <data>Invisi-Shepard</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>699411</id>
        <position>11464</position>
        <data>DLC_TestMPObjective</data>
    </string>
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        <data>DLC_TestMPConsumable</data>
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    <string>
        <id>701528</id>
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        <data>Please select from below.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>701529</id>
        <position>11467</position>
        <data>See other endings</data>

(Don't you just love how the first thing it does at the end is check your DLC?)

Note that it's Guardian's "garden", because they certainly didn't remove the trees from the cubemap files:
http://i50.tinypic.com/5pikax.jpg

So, given that the child is referred to as "Guardian" throughout the game files (even all of his textures are denoted GRD):
http://i45.tinypic.com/1zz493k.png

Then what does this mean?:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2uf7zhi.png

There are four files labelled "guardianend" that only play in the red ending.
They are the sound of you shooting the tube, seemingly with varying levels of reverb...

Get Gibbed ME3 audio extractor and have a look, let me know what you think.

Modifié par TSA_383, 08 mai 2012 - 09:58 .


#52866
Earthborn_Shepard

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TSA_383 wrote...

Once Shepard reaches the top of the elevator he begins a conversation with GUARDIAN where all the mysteries of the universe are revealed.


Best sentence ever.

Nothing is better than a clear and detailed plan when it comes to the ending!

#52867
gunslinger_ruiz

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Bah, it's leaks like that I blame for what's happening now. Don't get me wrong, I liked every second of ME3 but Obviously a lot of people didn't because of the endings. I'm wondering if the leak(s) never got out would the endings have been better? Or maybe just better executed.

I really hope there's NO leak of any story DLC Bioware puts out, might ruin the whole damn plan.

#52868
TSA_383

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Bah, it's leaks like that I blame for what's happening now. Don't get me wrong, I liked every second of ME3 but Obviously a lot of people didn't because of the endings. I'm wondering if the leak(s) never got out would the endings have been better? Or maybe just better executed.

I really hope there's NO leak of any story DLC Bioware puts out, might ruin the whole damn plan.


I don't really see how... The script for the ending barely changed between the leak and the finished product.
I'm hoping nobody leaks the EC before it's out, mostly because I want to see it when I play it...

#52869
gunslinger_ruiz

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TSA_383 wrote...

I don't really see how... The script for the ending barely changed between the leak and the finished product.
I'm hoping nobody leaks the EC before it's out, mostly because I want to see it when I play it...


Yes!

#52870
balance5050

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TSA_383 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Bah, it's leaks like that I blame for what's happening now. Don't get me wrong, I liked every second of ME3 but Obviously a lot of people didn't because of the endings. I'm wondering if the leak(s) never got out would the endings have been better? Or maybe just better executed.

I really hope there's NO leak of any story DLC Bioware puts out, might ruin the whole damn plan.


I don't really see how... The script for the ending barely changed between the leak and the finished product.
I'm hoping nobody leaks the EC before it's out, mostly because I want to see it when I play it...


I have this sneaking suspicion that the leak was intentional, I mean, people didn't like it then and they still didn't change it.

As a matter of fact, the leak had a much more fleshed out ending including a portion where 'You were bunkered down with Hammer and Harbingers beam knocks you into some debris. You pull a metal rod from your leg, apply some medi-gel, and continue with Anderson towards the Citadel.

#52871
maxloef

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I dont know if this was posted here, but here is a youtube video of someone that extracted the dream sequence sounds it has distinct reaper sounds in it, which i think is a GOOD hint to indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.c...5dHSRXTM#t=101s

#52872
Raistlin Majare 1992

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balance5050 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Bah, it's leaks like that I blame for what's happening now. Don't get me wrong, I liked every second of ME3 but Obviously a lot of people didn't because of the endings. I'm wondering if the leak(s) never got out would the endings have been better? Or maybe just better executed.

I really hope there's NO leak of any story DLC Bioware puts out, might ruin the whole damn plan.


I don't really see how... The script for the ending barely changed between the leak and the finished product.
I'm hoping nobody leaks the EC before it's out, mostly because I want to see it when I play it...


I have this sneaking suspicion that the leak was intentional, I mean, people didn't like it then and they still didn't change it.

As a matter of fact, the leak had a much more fleshed out ending including a portion where 'You were bunkered down with Hammer and Harbingers beam knocks you into some debris. You pull a metal rod from your leg, apply some medi-gel, and continue with Anderson towards the Citadel.


Yeah "leaks" in the gaming world are in my opinion more often than not intentional. It is for when developers want to start building hype before the actual announcemnet of "Insert opcoming game here."

I base this mostly on the enormous difference between some game companies when it comes to leaks. Some seem to leak every month or so whiel others never seem to leak a thing (Valve, Nintendo primarily)

But anyway that apart about the rubble sounds strangely familiar...it is almost like I have seen it somehwere...

#52873
Stigweird85

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I don't really see how... The script for the ending barely changed between the leak and the finished product.
I'm hoping nobody leaks the EC before it's out, mostly because I want to see it when I play it...


Yes!


I avoided the script leak and all trailers/teasers that I could and plan to do the same for EC, I play Mass Effect for the story not much point if I know everything beforehand

#52874
Raistlin Majare 1992

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maxloef wrote...

I dont know if this was posted here, but here is a youtube video of someone that extracted the dream sequence sounds it has distinct reaper sounds in it, which i think is a GOOD hint to indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.c...5dHSRXTM#t=101s


Creepy...and without a doubt Reaper origin. That metal growl/scratching noise is only heard from them.

#52875
lex0r11

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Sorry for sidetracking.


There are "reaper-ish" sounds in the Diablo 3 TV spot too.

youtu.be/EyzPEmEJIYM

:blink:
*goes nuts*

Modifié par lex0r11, 08 mai 2012 - 10:22 .