57139 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Few have spent more time around reaper tech than Shepard.

And his squadmates.

Thats the point of arrival. Bioware may of added a "oh here what happened" to those who didn't play it explanation, but I'm pretty sure if anyone asks bioware when the indoctrination started, they would say arrival.

But if you didn't play arrivel, Shepard never got hit by object rho. Then what?

Shepard blew up the Batarian relay even if you didn't play the Arrival. It's just not explicitly mentioned in the Anderson's talk with him.

Incorrect. Hackett sent marines to do it instead, even though that makes no sense.

OK. I was confused by the fact that Anderson explicitly addresses that if you played the Arrival. So what "s**t" is he talking about?

Joining cerberus, taking out collectors, not sharing info with Alliance, and killing a human reaper.

Yeah that was really shoehorned in. I mean technically, as a Spectre, it doesn't seem likely the Alliance would or even could recall and ground Shepard for 6 months, without the events of Arrival as the reason. But ah well price you pay (heh) for story DLC

Arrival is still considered canon, since there is a comic alluding to it, where James Vega transports Shepard back home due to arrival.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Some could argue that the arrival is the true ending to ME 3 because it's set a few months before ME3. So what he's saying here is that the end will be on the dics and wherevever the dlc plugs into, it will make sense to the story.

Like Javik for example.

My internet is out for 8 hours and I come back and the first thing I see is Epyon claiming Arrival is the end of ME3?

Oh typos, you so crazy.

Not claiming just saying thatI've seen it around.

Wait. Arrival is somehow the end of the third game? Even though its DLC for the second?

I am confused.

No no that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that some would think that the ending of ME2 was not the suicide mission, but the arrival since it is set a few months before ME3.

Right. Which is why when you originally said Arrival was the end of ME3, I made a comment about typos.

That was a joke. [/EDI]

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah pretty certain he says can.

He still said the word "but" though, which points to some sort of contradiction or different information

Anything you say before the word "but" doesn't matter.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah that was really shoehorned in. I mean technically, as a Spectre, it doesn't seem likely the Alliance would or even could recall and ground Shepard for 6 months, without the events of Arrival as the reason. But ah well price you pay (heh) for story DLC

Wasn't his Spectre status suspended in ME2 since he was dead and they didn't allow him to return to that status since he was working for cerberus?


Edited for neatness

Modifié par EpyonX3, 08 mai 2012 - 09:34 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Some could argue that the arrival is the true ending to ME 3 because it's set a few months before ME3. So what he's saying here is that the end will be on the dics and wherevever the dlc plugs into, it will make sense to the story.

Like Javik for example.

My internet is out for 8 hours and I come back and the first thing I see is Epyon claiming Arrival is the end of ME3?

Oh typos, you so crazy.

Not claiming just saying thatI've seen it around.

Wait. Arrival is somehow the end of the third game? Even though its DLC for the second?

I am confused.

No no that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that some would think that the ending of ME2 was not the suicide mission, but the arrival since it is set a few months before ME3.

Right. Which is why when you originally said Arrival was the end of ME3, I made a comment about typos.

That was a joke. [/EDI]

OH SNAP! I just caught that sorry.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Wasn't his Spectre status suspended in ME2 since he was dead and they didn't allow him to return to that status since he was working for cerberus?

If you saved the original Council, or let them die and made Anderson the human Councilor, you could get your Spectre status reinstated.

I always waited to buy stuff from the Citadel gift shop till after getting my Spectre status reinstated, because instead of lying and claiming the gift shop was my favorite shop, the paragon persuade just lets you use your government employee discount.

[Hawk227]

DJBare wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I consider a situation where Shepard never got up from the floor in Vancouver HQ very interesting. That would mean the whole game is just a hallucination. Why would only Shepard and Anderson survive the blast?

I'm not convinced the whole game is hallucination, but the bumped to the head could be enough to weaken Shepards resolve at fighting indoctrination, here's the way I think it goes, the first time Shepard sees the kid playing, it's real, after the bump to the head the kid is hallucination but everything else is real, I'm not so certain Anderson is even real at that point, everyone else in that room was killed, Shepard gets knocked unconscious and Anderson appears without a scratch.

The bump to the head at the beginning never results in a fade to white/black. The hallucination either starts when the Mako is hit at the end, or when Shepard is blasted by Harbinger. If not for the breath scene, I would say that magic elevator after Anderson dies could be a point too, but with the breath scene that makes no sense.

Modifié par Hawk227, 08 mai 2012 - 09:39 .

[MaximizedAction]

DJBare wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I consider a situation where Shepard never got up from the floor in Vancouver HQ very interesting. That would mean the whole game is just a hallucination. Why would only Shepard and Anderson survive the blast?

I'm not convinced the whole game is hallucination, but the bumped to the head could be enough to weaken Shepards resolve at fighting indoctrination, here's the way I think it goes, the first time Shepard sees the kid playing, it's real, after the bump to the head the kid is hallucination but everything else is real, I'm not so certain Anderson is even real at that point, everyone else in that room was killed, Shepard gets knocked unconscious and Anderson appears without a scratch.

Yeah, remember how after the vent scene Shepard nearly falls over when "Anderson" says "careful". Apparently a spectre that walked on the exterior of tower on the Citadel can stumble over...

And it's funny, how Shepard always talks to Hackett and Anderson in the conference room alone...

But no, for Anderson to be unreal, pretty much everyone has to be indoctrinated by the point of the Priority Earth mission, when Anderson talks to Shepard in front of everyone.

[byne]

MaximizedAction wrote...

And it's funny, how Shepard always talks to Hackett and Anderson in the conference room alone...

Actually Liara talks to Hackett with you after Mars.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah that was really shoehorned in. I mean technically, as a Spectre, it doesn't seem likely the Alliance would or even could recall and ground Shepard for 6 months, without the events of Arrival as the reason. But ah well price you pay (heh) for story DLC

Wasn't his Spectre status suspended in ME2 since he was dead and they didn't allow him to return to that status since he was working for cerberus?


Edited for neatness

There were dialog options for either reinstatement or further suspension.

[Stigweird85]

I'm okay with the the citadel conversation, maybe even the majority of the London mission being a dream via indoctrination however there is no greater shame in the writing world than resorting to "and then I woke up"

On the positive side of things, if the entire game is a dream then at least that means that there is hell of a lot of work still to do

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

DJBare wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I consider a situation where Shepard never got up from the floor in Vancouver HQ very interesting. That would mean the whole game is just a hallucination. Why would only Shepard and Anderson survive the blast?

I'm not convinced the whole game is hallucination, but the bumped to the head could be enough to weaken Shepards resolve at fighting indoctrination, here's the way I think it goes, the first time Shepard sees the kid playing, it's real, after the bump to the head the kid is hallucination but everything else is real, I'm not so certain Anderson is even real at that point, everyone else in that room was killed, Shepard gets knocked unconscious and Anderson appears without a scratch.

Yeah, remember how after the vent scene Shepard nearly falls over when "Anderson" says "careful". Apparently a spectre that walked on the exterior of tower on the Citadel can stumble over...

And it's funny, how Shepard always talks to Hackett and Anderson in the conference room alone...

But no, for Anderson to be unreal, pretty much everyone has to be indoctrinated by the point of the Priority Earth mission, when Anderson talks to Shepard in front of everyone.

That damn Newtonian Mechanics... Gravity and stuff...

After Mars, Liara is with Shepard and Hackett during the debriefing.

Lots of Indoctrination for Everyone. Seriously, the sheer number of Reapers makes the electromagnetic fields stronger and increase their range.

Modifié par paxxton, 08 mai 2012 - 09:52 .

[MaximizedAction]

bigstig wrote...

I'm okay with the the citadel conversation, maybe even the majority of the London mission being a dream via indoctrination however there is no greater shame in the writing world than resorting to "and then I woke up"

On the positive side of things, if the entire game is a dream then at least that means that there is hell of a lot of work still to do

The majority of the game being a dream would be a waste by for the writers, it means that most of what they didn't mean anything. And 2 years of development isn't exactly enough time to write 40h full of hallucinations and then 40h of real stuff.

Now the ending, on the other hand, since the Citadel scenes mostly consist of architechture from other the other games, like the wards background, Shadow Broker ship, Collectors...BW didn't waste too many ressources on the hallucinated ending.

So the ending being unreal seems more reasonable from a developer's point of view.

[SS2Dante]

By the way, small thing. The rooftop garden the kid is playing in - trees and shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...FxUZGDgk#t=325s

Then the roof bit with the vent and the kid - also ringed with shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...xUZGDgk#t=1063s

Can't remember any other bits of the start having foliage but may be be mistaken.
Could be nothing but they look super like the dream shrubs/ending shrubs. Complete accident or symbolism? Who knows.

[byne]

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, small thing. The rooftop garden the kid is playing in - trees and shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...FxUZGDgk#t=325s

Then the roof bit with the vent and the kid - also ringed with shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...xUZGDgk#t=1063s

Can't remember any other bits of the start having foliage but may be be mistaken.
Could be nothing but they look super like the dream shrubs/ending shrubs. Complete accident or symbolism? Who knows.

Also, at the beginning, the kid is playing with a toy spaceship, and at the end it turns out the Reapers have been the godchild's toy spaceships all along.

[MaximizedAction]

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, small thing. The rooftop garden the kid is playing in - trees and shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...FxUZGDgk#t=325s

Then the roof bit with the vent and the kid - also ringed with shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...xUZGDgk#t=1063s

Can't remember any other bits of the start having foliage but may be be mistaken.
Could be nothing but they look super like the dream shrubs/ending shrubs. Complete accident or symbolism? Who knows.

Oh man, this is so awesome. Damn Bioware, you crazy!

[TSA_383]

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

[SS2Dante]

byne wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, small thing. The rooftop garden the kid is playing in - trees and shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...FxUZGDgk#t=325s

Then the roof bit with the vent and the kid - also ringed with shrubs.
http://www.youtube.c...xUZGDgk#t=1063s

Can't remember any other bits of the start having foliage but may be be mistaken.
Could be nothing but they look super like the dream shrubs/ending shrubs. Complete accident or symbolism? Who knows.

Also, at the beginning, the kid is playing with a toy spaceship, and at the end it turns out the Reapers have been the godchild's toy spaceships all along.

Others have pointed out that the very first thing we associate with the child is deception. Real spaceship...oh wait no it's not. 

[SS2Dante]

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

I agree with you the third clip sounds VERY VERY much like "Please come home".

People could argue that this is a cut line but I can't see any situation where the child would have said this.

Veeery interesting.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 08 mai 2012 - 10:00 .

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

Hmmm, on the one hand, it doesn't seem to far fetched that Shepard would imagine the kid saying something like that. But on the other hand the dreams are evolving and Shepard probably wouldn't dream about phrases he didn't hear the kid say.

[SS2Dante]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

Hmmm, on the one hand, it doesn't seem to far fetched that Shepard would imagine the kid saying something like that. But on the other hand the dreams are evolving and Shepard probably wouldn't dream about phrases he didn't hear the kid say.

Are there any other sound clips in the dreams that are made up? From what I've seen all the quotes are memories, but I could be wrong. If this particular quote from the child is the only made up when then I'd say it's significant.

[TSA_383]

SS2Dante wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

Hmmm, on the one hand, it doesn't seem to far fetched that Shepard would imagine the kid saying something like that. But on the other hand the dreams are evolving and Shepard probably wouldn't dream about phrases he didn't hear the kid say.

Are there any other sound clips in the dreams that are made up? From what I've seen all the quotes are memories, but I could be wrong. If this particular quote from the child is the only made up when then I'd say it's significant.

Is everything said in that youtube video a quote? I've not heard all the death lines I think...

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

Hmmm, on the one hand, it doesn't seem to far fetched that Shepard would imagine the kid saying something like that. But on the other hand the dreams are evolving and Shepard probably wouldn't dream about phrases he didn't hear the kid say.

Are there any other sound clips in the dreams that are made up? From what I've seen all the quotes are memories, but I could be wrong. If this particular quote from the child is the only made up when then I'd say it's significant.

Is everything said in that youtube video a quote? I've not heard all the death lines I think...

Thank for reminding me:

When I first saw one of these dream voices only videos, I don't think I did hear all of these lines being spoken by the characters in-game, or at least not in this emotions and slowly spoken, especially the "Shepard" wispers.
It's like things that might've been said when we the players weren't there.

Most of the lines are definitely extra recorded. The way they're spoken probably emphasize the surreality of the dreams.
EDIT: For example Garrus' famous "I don't like grey" is delivered differently by Keener here.

The video is actually quite tragic to listen to, proves how awesome the VAs are.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 mai 2012 - 10:30 .

[SS2Dante]

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I think I've noticed something relevant - put this in my dream sounds thread http://social.biowar.../index/11939824

Here's the youtube link for the sounds:

Child is at 6:51 - first sound plays in the first dream, second one in the second dream, third one in the third dream.

For me, it sounds like:
1st dream: "Help Me!"
2nd dream: "Everyone's Dying!"
3rd dream: "Please Come Home"


I thought the interesting bit was the fact that the third one is something that I don't think we've heard the child say... Also something which Shepard then immediately does.

Remember, at that point you have no idea the Citadel is being moved to earth...

Indoctrination is based on suggestion, y'know

Hmmm, on the one hand, it doesn't seem to far fetched that Shepard would imagine the kid saying something like that. But on the other hand the dreams are evolving and Shepard probably wouldn't dream about phrases he didn't hear the kid say.

Are there any other sound clips in the dreams that are made up? From what I've seen all the quotes are memories, but I could be wrong. If this particular quote from the child is the only made up when then I'd say it's significant.

Is everything said in that youtube video a quote? I've not heard all the death lines I think...

Yeah kinda tricky to know. I know a lot of the sayings (The one of Legion saying "help me" presumably occurs after the mission you rescue him, cos I think that's where it's from. Either that or the dreams have some future stuff in them) but not all.

Anyhoo, please come home. That's another one of those stock phrases used in indoctrinationy tropes. 

[SS2Dante]

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.



1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 08 mai 2012 - 11:00 .