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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#53226
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.

Posted Image

1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.


I think I can shed some light on the trees.
The child is referred to as guardian throughout the script from the leaks. The place where the choice takes place was "Guardian's garden".

It's an interesting one, sure, but I don't see as much in it as some do ;)

#53227
Salient Archer

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Interesting fact: Shepard's encounter with Object Rho was always going to be canon.

Proof: This in an excerpt from ME: Conviction, which is used as an introduction to Vega for ME3 and is written by ME3 lead writer Mac Walters.

Posted Image
Posted Image

So the lead writer of ME3 thinks Shep's encounter with Object Rho is canon also!!, so why the frak did they nerf it for people who haven't played the DLC?

Also, where exactly does it say in the game that Marines did the mission and not Shepard?

Modifié par Salient Archer, 08 mai 2012 - 11:22 .


#53228
MaximizedAction

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.

[snip]

1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.


I think I can shed some light on the trees.
The child is referred to as guardian throughout the script from the leaks. The place where the choice takes place was "Guardian's garden".

It's an interesting one, sure, but I don't see as much in it as some do ;)


Garden = organic sure is opposed to the Guardian being the controller of the Reapers = synthetic.
If it was supposed to be a garden, then the rest of the upper Citadel area doesn't really fit the rest of the setting.

Moreover the use of plants seems important in the game. In Shepards dreams and around the Conduit are the trees dead. Otherwise they're all green. Also notice, that the planet the Normandy crashes on, besides being a garden of eden, has A LOT of plants!

It's plants everywhere! Maybe we should focus on them...

#53229
Salient Archer

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MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.

[snip]

1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.


I think I can shed some light on the trees.
The child is referred to as guardian throughout the script from the leaks. The place where the choice takes place was "Guardian's garden".

It's an interesting one, sure, but I don't see as much in it as some do ;)


Garden = organic sure is opposed to the Guardian being the controller of the Reapers = synthetic.
If it was supposed to be a garden, then the rest of the upper Citadel area doesn't really fit the rest of the setting.

Moreover the use of plants seems important in the game. In Shepards dreams and around the Conduit are the trees dead. Otherwise they're all green. Also notice, that the planet the Normandy crashes on, besides being a garden of eden, has A LOT of plants!

It's plants everywhere! Maybe we should focus on them...


Like oranges in the Godfather triology?

#53230
Golferguy758

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MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.

[snip]

1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.


I think I can shed some light on the trees.
The child is referred to as guardian throughout the script from the leaks. The place where the choice takes place was "Guardian's garden".

It's an interesting one, sure, but I don't see as much in it as some do ;)


Garden = organic sure is opposed to the Guardian being the controller of the Reapers = synthetic.
If it was supposed to be a garden, then the rest of the upper Citadel area doesn't really fit the rest of the setting.

Moreover the use of plants seems important in the game. In Shepards dreams and around the Conduit are the trees dead. Otherwise they're all green. Also notice, that the planet the Normandy crashes on, besides being a garden of eden, has A LOT of plants!

It's plants everywhere! Maybe we should focus on them...


I think they just were PLANTed there to get people to question them.

Posted Image

Modifié par Golferguy758, 08 mai 2012 - 11:34 .


#53231
SS2Dante

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Ok, was looking at the crucible cubemaps and wanna bring up two things.

Posted Image

1. Ok, this is REALLY obvious, yet I somehow missed it, so sorry if it's been brought up before. The crucible design is different on the left and rightmost map.The paths diverge at the starting point instead of at the beam. So...yeah. Thoughts?

2. (wild speculation) Looking at the cubemaps the crappy 2d textures for the trees rather reminded me of the background texture in the dreams, blurred a bit*. Don't suppose anyone can either find the texture or compare from screenshots? (only save I have left near the dreams is at the 3rd one and I think that's timed so I can't check myself)

*(http://www.youtube.c...IKewKW9bb0#t=9s) the very back shadowy forest.


I think I can shed some light on the trees.
The child is referred to as guardian throughout the script from the leaks. The place where the choice takes place was "Guardian's garden".

It's an interesting one, sure, but I don't see as much in it as some do ;)

 

True enough. I'm just interested to see that, judging from the cubemaps, they either had 2 versions of the final level (both of which included trees). Wondering if they'd really design and create 2 versions of the same room, and then include the cuebmaps for all the versions.
(Note, by different I'm not referring to the trees. The actual room and paths and crucible structure is different)

#53232
SS2Dante

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Salient Archer wrote...

Interesting fact: Shepard's encounter with Object Rho was always going to be canon.

Proof: This in an excerpt from ME: Conviction, which is used as an introduction to Vega for ME3 and is written by ME3 lead writer Mac Walters.

Posted Image
Posted Image

So the lead writer of ME3 thinks Shep's encounter with Object Rho is canon also!!, so why the frak did they nerf it for people who haven't played the DLC?

Also, where exactly does it say in the game that Marines did the mission and not Shepard?


It's in the codex I thiiiink?

I think they nerfed it because people would be irritated that, loading up 3 to find everything they had has been taken away for a crime they didn't see or participate in. I can see myself being rather annoyed.

#53233
Salient Archer

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SS2Dante wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Interesting fact: Shepard's encounter with Object Rho was always going to be canon.

Proof: This in an excerpt from ME: Conviction, which is used as an introduction to Vega for ME3 and is written by ME3 lead writer Mac Walters.

Posted Image
Posted Image

So the lead writer of ME3 thinks Shep's encounter with Object Rho is canon also!!, so why the frak did they nerf it for people who haven't played the DLC?

Also, where exactly does it say in the game that Marines did the mission and not Shepard?


It's in the codex I thiiiink?

I think they nerfed it because people would be irritated that, loading up 3 to find everything they had has been taken away for a crime they didn't see or participate in. I can see myself being rather annoyed.


I can imagine it's mentioned somewhere in the game as a lot of people have branded it about, It's just I haven't seen it myself.

I just found it interesting that Mac Walters makes it canon in his ME3 supplement material.

#53234
Rifneno

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SubAstris wrote...

You are making assumptions about the extent of the Catalyst'sabilities which cannot unfortunately be substantiated by anything in game


I see. Just because he has the power to command a massive army of hyper-advanced machines a hundred thousand light years away doesn't mean he has the power to hit the "On" switch to the relay built into the device he's literally a part of.

That makes sense.

estebanus wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

........Is there anyone else than me that are starting to hate volus with a burning passion?



Dafuq? Why?! Because of Subastris?


To be fair, I can't think of a single volus from ME 1 or 2 that was what I'd call "good". They were pretty much universally douchebags until 3.

ExtendedCut wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I ran into green too, but it wasn't on purpose. Right after starbrat I felt as if someone had managed to weaponize stupidity and they had blown up a thermonuclear-sized bomb of it in my face. I was dazed and incoherent as one might expect. I stumbled around blindly hoping to find something that didn't radiate idiocy. I did not find such a thing.


Just wanted to quote this because I thought it was hilarious.


But nobody ever commented on "makes about as much sense as using a cactus to practice fellatio." I was hurt. :(

paxxton wrote...

I consider a situation where Shepard never got up from the floor in Vancouver HQ very interesting. That would mean the whole game is just a hallucination. Why would only Shepard and Anderson survive the blast?


Because they weren't directly hit by the beam like the committee was? Having the entire game be null and void is an incredibly bad idea. Arguably worse than the literalist interpretation. All of the emotional rollercoaster with the genophage and the geth, just taken away? I bet the fans of new characters like Cortez and Traynor will be pleased to find out they never ****ing even existed.

No. That's an incredibly retarded idea. I'm not sure I could come up with a worse idea if I tried.

*flags down mall security to take paxxton away*

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

OK. I was confused by the fact that Anderson explicitly addresses that if you played the Arrival. So what "sh*t" is he talking about?


Hell if I know.

I thought maybe he was referring to working with Cerberus, since they're a terrorist organization, but I mean, you didnt technically do anything illegal while working for them, and even if you had, you were in the Terminus Systems, where Council Law doesnt apply.

So the **** you've done is basically stop evil aliens who were abducting and killing tens of thousands of colonists.

You horrible monster.


Pretty much. This isn't Dragon Age, they at least try to respect players choices. But it's pretty clear that Arrival is generally considered canon for story purposes. Even Vega's introduction to the story was about him snapping a TV in half while some asswipe batarian news anchor was ranting about what a terrorist monster Shepard is after the Bahak system went bye-bye.

bigstig wrote...

I'm okay with the the citadel conversation, maybe even the majority of the London mission being a dream via indoctrination however there is no greater shame in the writing world than resorting to "and then I woke up"


How about "and now, to start on my next Sword of Truth novel"?

Oh, and while you guys are talking about ventkid, don't forget to mention the warning label next to the vent. A bolt hitting someone in the head. A very odd warning label found nowhere else in the game. It's unique to that scene, where it makes no sense whatsoever. Except as a subtle dev-to-player hint.

#53235
IronSabbath88

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Need I bring up the fact that when Arrival came out it was heralded as the "perfect lead in to the events of Mass Effect 3"?

BioWare basically dropped that you SHOULD play this DLC because it leads you right into Mass Effect 3. They made it seem like it was highly important.

#53236
Salient Archer

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

Need I bring up the fact that when Arrival came out it was heralded as the "perfect lead in to the events of Mass Effect 3"?

BioWare basically dropped that you SHOULD play this DLC because it leads you right into Mass Effect 3. They made it seem like it was highly important.


I remember that on their blog too, and to be honest that sentiment is now confirmed thanks to the ME3 Lead writing a comic that blatantly says that it happened regardless.

#53237
byne

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Rifneno wrote...


estebanus wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

........Is there anyone else than me that are starting to hate volus with a burning passion?



Dafuq? Why?! Because of Subastris?


To be fair, I can't think of a single volus from ME 1 or 2 that was what I'd call "good". They were pretty much universally douchebags until 3.




Biotic God. Your argument is invalid.

#53238
Rifneno

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byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...


estebanus wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

........Is there anyone else than me that are starting to hate volus with a burning passion?



Dafuq? Why?! Because of Subastris?


To be fair, I can't think of a single volus from ME 1 or 2 that was what I'd call "good". They were pretty much universally douchebags until 3.


Biotic God. Your argument is invalid.


Funny =! morally solid

#53239
blooregard

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Woah this is...a very big development. So object Rho IS canon as confirmed by Mac? Well this...damn near confirmes IT.

#53240
blooregard

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Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...


estebanus wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

........Is there anyone else than me that are starting to hate volus with a burning passion?



Dafuq? Why?! Because of Subastris?


To be fair, I can't think of a single volus from ME 1 or 2 that was what I'd call "good". They were pretty much universally douchebags until 3.


Biotic God. Your argument is invalid.


Funny =! morally solid




I always thought Barla Von was the least douchey Volus until the Biotic god. Even then Barla has to be my favorite Volus

#53241
Arian Dynas

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Gentlemen! *smokes cigarette*

Afternoon, got a big old post coming in, so wide load here. And Rifneno, I am including MY theory on the Reapers, so fair's fair, flog your own theory all you like, just know I don't agree, and likely won't.

#53242
Nauks

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blooregard wrote...

I always thought Barla Von was the least douchey Volus until the Biotic god. Even then Barla has to be my favorite Volus

Speaking of Barla Von, notice after the Cerberus attack on the Citadel, there is a huge shotgun blast where he used to stand, and he is nowhere to be found. :(

#53243
paxxton

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@Rifneno
In Vancouver HQ there were other people in the room besides Shepard, Anderson and the Highest Committee Posted Image. Some of them further away from the windows than Shepard.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 mai 2012 - 12:26 .


#53244
MintyCool

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$200 million in sales...

Check and Mate.


http://www.destructo...es-227119.phtml

Modifié par MintyCool, 09 mai 2012 - 12:27 .


#53245
blooregard

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Nauks wrote...

blooregard wrote...

I always thought Barla Von was the least douchey Volus until the Biotic god. Even then Barla has to be my favorite Volus

Speaking of Barla Von, notice after the Cerberus attack on the Citadel, there is a huge shotgun blast where he used to stand, and he is nowhere to be found. :(




:o

All through ME2 I was thinking did Barla survive the Geth attack then in ME3 Liara says "go talk to Barla Von" and I started dancing around in victory knowing Barla survived.

#53246
Arian Dynas

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MintyCool wrote...


$200 million in sales...

Check and Mate.


http://www.destructo...es-227119.phtml



Oh good Lord, not you again...

Look, why don't you go check yourself into a mental facility to deal with your illrational hatred of all things nonsecular, and after that you can go mate with a donkey?

#53247
N7L4D

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Arian Dynas wrote...

MintyCool wrote...


$200 million in sales...

Check and Mate.


http://www.destructo...es-227119.phtml



Oh good Lord, not you again...

Look, why don't you go check yourself into a mental facility to deal with your illrational hatred of all things nonsecular, and after that you can go mate with a donkey?

V


:OLmao

#53248
gunslinger_ruiz

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blooregard wrote...

Woah this is...a very big development. So object Rho IS canon as confirmed by Mac? Well this...damn near confirmes IT.


I woudln't say confrims just yet, makes Indoctrination Theory much more likley yes. The only thing to 100% confirm the Theory will be Bioware telling us so or seeing it happen in EC/other in game DLC. Don't forget Shepard has encountered other things that could have slapped an Indoctrination suggestion on his/her brain (the derelict Reaper for one).

Arian Dynas wrote...

Gentlemen! *smokes cigarette*

Afternoon,
got a big old post coming in, so wide load here. And Rifneno, I am
including MY theory on the Reapers, so fair's fair, flog your own theory
all you like, just know I don't agree, and likely won't.


Copy that Arian standing by for wall of text.

#53249
N7L4D

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 social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11942610/2

#53250
NeoDobby

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N7L4D wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MintyCool wrote...


$200 million in sales...

Check and Mate.


http://www.destructo...es-227119.phtml



Oh good Lord, not you again...

Look, why don't you go check yourself into a mental facility to deal with your illrational hatred of all things nonsecular, and after that you can go mate with a donkey?

V


:OLmao


*whisper* ignore the strange voices in the (t)h®ead! *whisper*

Modifié par NeoDobby, 09 mai 2012 - 12:43 .