57139 réponses à ce sujet

[De1ta G]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

I believe it was intentional manipulation. I fell for it as well. Now I realized that I made a mistake. Good thing I can redo it.

[Martukis]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

 
 I did the same thing, so we shall see.

[PrivateFrost]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

Did the same thing, even though I play paragon and really wanted to destroy the reapers. But I like Joker so much, didn't want to see him sad without EDI. ;-;

[GBGriffin]

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

I think the child at the start is real...I mean, he's being loaded on to the shutle. I just think the Reapers know that Shep is distraught over that partilcular death (yes, I know that might not fit everyone's Shep ) and they're using it, just as they used TIM's desire to save humanity.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 12 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[krystalevenstar]

Is anyone good with audio mixing? I'm trying to play with Audacity to see if I can mute the child's voice and amplify Jennifer Hale's, but I have no idea what to do besides trial and error, lol

[BlackDragonBane]

Deepthroat wrote...

I can't believe people actually want the ending to be a hallucination or dream. They'd rather take the cheapest plot device there is in fiction, rather then accept the fact that the writers' idea of the ending is wildly different from that of the fans.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way they handled the ending, but I'll rather accept it as it is than hope that the last 10 minutes didn't happen.

It's not a cheap plot device if you take into account all the evidence from not only ME3, but even the first two games that points at how indoctrination is a very likely explaination for the strange conclusion we got the game. There are too many things after Harbinger's attack that don't add up and too many details that really support the whole idea behind indoctrination.

If this is Bioware's true intention, it is one of the most brilliant stunts a game developer has ever done with a story and if not, the community has certainly given them the best idea to explain the lack of context within the endings.

I at first accepted them as they were, but after sitting through this thread, playing again through the ending, researching the codexes, ALL the evidence is already in the games, it's just being pieced together now.

[G0thicRhino]

wryterra wrote...

Deepthroat wrote...

I can't believe people actually want the ending to be a hallucination or dream. They'd rather take the cheapest plot device there is in fiction, rather then accept the fact that the writers' idea of the ending is wildly different from that of the fans.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way they handled the ending, but I'll rather accept it as it is than hope that the last 10 minutes didn't happen.

You don't think having the player experience indoctrination first hand and actually play through Shepard's battle for control of her own mind rather than basing it on accumulated paragon or renegade points is more than the cheapest plot device in fiction?

'cause I do. I think it's remarkable. 

I love the idea, I think it's great.

[Turtlicious]

ok so I'm going to compile the two Pre Earth reclamation theories, and the two Ramp Theories.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

(Mix and match 1 and 2 with A and

Anything I forget?

Modifié par Turtlicious, 12 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[russell252]

rogueagent6 wrote...

Guess I'll quote myself here since most people seem to skip it...

rogueagent6 wrote...

Went back and checked the in-game codex. The following is quoted directly from the Indoctrination entry, paragraph 2:

"Organics
undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or
ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being
watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.
Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to
amplify it's signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind."

There it is, the whole ending is Shepard fighting those exact symptoms.

Amamzing those were also the dreams sequences throughout the whole game.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

I don't know if you guys saw, but hi, I'm new, and this whole theory here gives me hope, and makes lot's of sense. So thanks for that.

Regarding to the voices, I heard the female voice, and a low male whisper, but I can't make out whether it's Shep or not.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

PrivateFrost wrote...

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

Did the same thing, even though I play paragon and really wanted to destroy the reapers. But I like Joker so much, didn't want to see him sad without EDI. ;-;

The reapers used your humanity against you and won. Enjoy your life as a husk  

Love EDI too  

[Ona Demonie]

GBGriffin wrote...

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

I think the child at the start is real...I mean, he's being loaded on to the shutle. I just think the Reapers know that Shep is distraught over that partilcular death (yes, I know that might not fit everyone's Shep ) and they're using it, just as they used TIM's desire to save humanity.

I don't.

1) When you first speak to him, he says "Everyone's dying". "You can't save me". What kid would say that? Typically a kid would say "Save me!", "I'm scared!", "Help!".
2) You look to Anderson, then back to the kid. He's gone... with no noise of his leave.
3) No one seems to notice him. Not even the guards or the people on the shuttle. He gets on by himself. ONLY Shepard sees him.

[FugitiveMind]

GBGriffin wrote...

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

I think the child at the start is real...I mean, he's being loaded on to the shutle. I just think the Reapers know that Shep is distraught over that partilcular death (yes, I know that might not fit everyone's Shep ) and they're using it, just as they used TIM's desire to save humanity.

Actually, he loaded himself onto the shuttle.

Noone else touched him or even looked at him

[Baronesa]

Just replayed the ending choosing red mmm it is very interesting how Shepard stops limping around the more she shoots at the machine... and starts walking normally... as if she was regaining her resolve, maybe?

Uhmmm I don't want to cling to false hopes... but this Indoctrination hypothesis seems very enticing.

[Auresta]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Is anyone good with audio mixing? I'm trying to play with Audacity to see if I can mute the child's voice and amplify Jennifer Hale's, but I have no idea what to do besides trial and error, lol

Quoting to bump this request.

[Neroteyen]

Wow, Gotta admit..Starting to believe. If this is true. Wow is all I can say. Hope it is actually and they do a dlc playing off it. That would just be amazing.

Modifié par Neroteyen, 12 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[BlackAvalon]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

On my first play I did the same, because of those reasons.... but also becasue my Shep was a Thane romance.

And let me tell you, by the end of the game she (and I) were damn depressed and frankly did not want to live any more. She just wanted to save everyone else.

So yeah, thanks Kai Leng. You helped the reapers break my FemShep. Jerk.

[Fattness132]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

As a paragon shep i actually chose destroy my first time. Knowing that it meant that the geth and EDI were going to be destroyed, i made the choice for the greater good of destroying the reapers and freeing the rest of the galaxy.

Seeing how the whole conversation with TiM before speaking with the kid was about how he was being controlled by the reapers, and could not control them himself, i saw this as being the worst possible choice.

Synthesis for me was also a choice my shep just couldnt make - destroying what made the galaxy what it was - the differences between the species. Synthesis makes everyone into basically the same thing, destroying their individuality.

I really hope this theory is true, so i can say i resisted the indoctrination on my first try lol.

[Fledgey]

Baronesa wrote...

Just replayed the ending choosing red mmm it is very interesting how Shepard stops limping around the more she shoots at the machine... and starts walking normally... as if she was regaining her resolve, maybe?

Uhmmm I don't want to cling to false hopes... but this Indoctrination hypothesis seems very enticing.

It is odd. That happens in all the endings. When it switches to cutscene you suddenly can sprint or stand up straight or shoot the **** out of that conduit.

[CaptnObvious]

Lol i still believe my theory on page 211 about Shepard dying from the beam during the last charge.

I would love to believe the hallucination theory, but that gives me false hope about Bioware doing SOMETHING to finish it off.

My theory just ends it all, full closure, explains who those guys at the end kinda are. Only thing im not sure about is that part where he's breathing in the rubble's, but i havent got that ending yet. Maybe it was his last breath?

[ceruleancrescent]

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

Don't worry, I chose that too at first. I thought I would be a martyr and save everyone. Then after I saw the ending, I went "wait, no...no I need to destroy the reapers, it's what I've been working towards this whole time, and I can't die, what did I just do?" *reloads last save and choses destroy*

[Turtlicious]

Turtlicious wrote...

ok so I'm going to compile the two Pre Earth reclamation theories, and the two Ramp Theories.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

(Mix and match 1 and 2 with A and

Anything I forget?

Just requoting for visibility, this thread moves VERY fast.

[novaseeker]

wryterra wrote...

Deepthroat wrote...

I can't believe people actually want the ending to be a hallucination or dream. They'd rather take the cheapest plot device there is in fiction, rather then accept the fact that the writers' idea of the ending is wildly different from that of the fans.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way they handled the ending, but I'll rather accept it as it is than hope that the last 10 minutes didn't happen.

You don't think having the player experience indoctrination first hand and actually play through Shepard's battle for control of her own mind rather than basing it on accumulated paragon or renegade points is more than the cheapest plot device in fiction?

'cause I do. I think it's remarkable. 

Exactly.  It would be one of the better endings ever in a video game, really.

[Auresta]

Baronesa wrote...

Just replayed the ending choosing red mmm it is very interesting how Shepard stops limping around the more she shoots at the machine... and starts walking normally... as if she was regaining her resolve, maybe?

Uhmmm I don't want to cling to false hopes... but this Indoctrination hypothesis seems very enticing.

All the endings seem to show Shepard's resolve.

Control: Shepard struggles greatly to grasp onto both controls even after facing extreme pain. 

Synthesis: Limping while walking but ultimately sprints into a run to jump into the beam.

[Rifneno]

underthumb wrote...

But that isn't what happened. Shepard did not hallucinate ghostly presences, she/he dreamt of them. That was established in-game, because Shepard always woke up from those sequences. Do you see the critical difference? Dreams are not hallucinations, and weird things happen in dreams, including nightmares.

Unless of course you're simply referring to the fact that the star child, in the end, was kind of non-coporeal, which seems like a fairly weak connection.

"And I know I'm not the only one having those dreams!" - Log of an engineer in Arrival suffering early stages of indoctrination.