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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#53501
Salient Archer

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Posted this ages ago (about 1000 pages ago) but have severely updated and can't really find it back there (and want to link it), I've include more info about how I feel it all relates and if you've read it before most of the revised and new stuff is from 2800-3999 onwards. ... btw, it's a WALL.

What is the EMS system really about?
So from what I’ve worked out so far, I believe that the EMS rating relates directly to Shepard’s resolve and hence willpower. I feel this is most evident in how the crucible presents new options with slightly improved outcomes as the EMS rating starts to increase. Not only increasing Shepard’s hope or desire to survive but also the Reapers desire to indoctrinate Shepard due to his military, political and social influence on others.

The Crucible
Considering the crucibles construction is independent to Shepard’s military strength and regardless of most choices, is always built the same way (even if you did or didn’t take the options of having the Rachni or Geth working on it). 

Not only this but the options the crucible presents to you are always tied directly into your EMS, for example with a low EMS (and a destroyed collector base) Shepard’s only option is ‘Destroy the reapers’ (more on this later).

The Choices
But how would a construct suddenly present you with less or more options because of your effective military strength? How would it logically be able to determine this? Did the StarChild take a gander outside, do a quick head count, checked to see how the N7 spec op teams are doing and then based on this information decided to turn a few options off just because he felt Shep did a pretty crap job of rallying the galaxy together!?

When does reality become fantasy?
Now, if we chose to believe that everything from Harbingers beam onward is just happening in Shepard’s head and that he’s actually heading down the slippery slopes of indoctrination, than we can assume that everything that takes places in the citadel onwards; from the arguments with Anderson and TIM to the choices Shepard can make, are just illusionary fictions.

A different interpretation of EMS
Now for arguments sake lets stop thinking of EMS as Effective Military Strength and start thinking of it as Shepard’s Will Power and to help illustrate this point I will break down each level. 

With a Destroyed Collector Base from ME2 (I’ll talk about the opposite later)

0-1749
So with the lowest EMS Shepard can only choose this option to destroy the reapers. Not only this, but the StarChild treats Shepard with more indifference than usual. So why the one option? and why is it destroy? Simply put the Reapers feel that Shepard has no worth, influence or value. He couldn’t rally the galaxy to defend earth and hence his death or indoctrination doesn’t carry a consequence for them. Essentially they just don’t give a frak and although Shepard’s resolve is high his will power is too low and doesn’t have the strength to survive the journey back from indoctrination.

1750-2049
The Reapers treat Shepard are little more seriously this time. He might not have rallied the Galaxy to the full potential he could have, but he was still more successful than any organic before him. The Reapers now offer him an additional choice: Control (become indoctrinated) because as a servant to the Reaper cause; Shepard could now potentially influence the amassed galaxy forces. 

Notes: Codex clearly states that the Reapers chose to indoctrinate those in key positions of power and influence, Who fits this bill better than Commander Shepard?

The the two handles Shepard holds in the control option are labeled BadEnding in the game design map.

Shepard’s eyes not only glow bright blue in the control ending but his iris’ also have identical patterns to those of the illusive man.

2050-2799
These present increasingly better versions of the above two options, each improvement representing both Shepard’s increase in will power (Destroy option) or the Reaper’s desire for Shepard as an asset (Control option) hence why he starts to envision better outcomes due to the Reaper’s trying to solidify their hold on him or Shepard being closer to breaking free of the indoctrination process.

The notable improvements happen at these stages.
2050 - Earth is only ravaged and the Normandy crew now survives in Destroy ending.
2350 - Earth now survives opposed to being ravaged in the control ending
2650 - Earth now survives opposed to being ravaged in the destroy ending

2800 - 3999
Shepard by this stage has proven how valuable he really is as an asset to the Reapers, not only this but by this stage the Reapers realize how powerful Shepard’s will is becoming and hence they fear he might break free of the indoctrination process.

Fearful of loosing their best potential asset, the Reapers pull out their big guns and present another tempting choice: The synthesis of Organics and Synthetics. This choice is not only the moral high-ground but also seems incredibly amazing due to implications it has of galactic peace for both Synthetics and Organics for all eternity and essentialy ends the cycle and removes the need of the Reapers. It represents the hope of a permanent end to the  cycle of destruction and the dawn of the next evolutionary step for galactic life. To bad it’s a big fat lie.

Pause and think about what Synthesis and final evolution is to the Reapers; well to be honest it's more Reapers. Think about Sovereign’s conversation with Shepard or any of the taunts Harbinger gives you in ME2, both reapers state that "they are our destiny, they are the final evolution". Also take note that during the suicide mission EDI points out that the human reaper was both made from organic and non-organic materials, which would be the very definition of Synthesis from a Reaper's perspective.

This added choice is also the Reapers attempt to get Shepard to see things their way, just as they did with Jack Harper and Saren. Indoctrination isn't about being told what to do or being controlled, it's more subtle than that, it's design is more like inception in that it makes the individual full heartedly believe that the Reapers are to be revered, and that the individual came to this conclusion themselves, this creates the distinction of the control they have of the husks and the conviction of their indoctrinated mouth pieces such as Saren. Indoctrination is to truly believe that whatever thought they've planted in your head is your own.

What about Synthesis being the last additional choice as far as being a game mechanic?, aren’t ‘we’ as players expected to be rewarded for more work and accomplishments? Well, yes we are!, We’ve been conditioned time and time again for this to be the case! So wouldn’t it stand to reason that if BioWare wanted to indoctrinate “us the player” that they would use a game mechanic and typical reward system as their last best chance to throw us off the right path?

Notes: When picking this option Shepard seems to morph into an almost husk like appearance complete with glowing blue eyes which also share the same iris pattern as the Illusive man.












4000 (or 5000)
The only notable difference with an EMS of 4000+ is that Shepard now survives after the Destroy ending. Hence alluding to the fact that his will power is now strong enough to overcome the indoctrination process.

Also, this threshold is knocked up to 5000 if Anderson doesn’t survive his encounter with TIM, once again proving how EMS is directly related to Shepard’s will to survive.

The indoctrination alternative
So if the events on the Crucible are real than Shepard can apparently survive coping a face full of explosion (about 1,000,000,000 that of TNT) from  the complete destruction of the crucible/catalyst/citadel, he also hurtles through the vacuum of space (without a breathing mask?), manages to avoid his circulatory system from stoping after the first 90 seconds of exposure, than also manages to propel himself at around 50,000kph (31068mph) so he only takes 13 hours to reach earths outer atmosphere and resists temperatures of up to 1480 degrees C (2700 F) to than also survive the 200 mile drop to the ground by magically coming to a slow gentle stop in a neat little pile of rubble, and despite all this he takes a deep breath?.

Or, the events all took place in his mind, and because his will is strong enough and has the desire to keep fighting he breaks free of the indoctrination process, takes a deep breath and wakes up in the rubble of London where Harbinger’s beam struck him.

I know which I feel is more likely and sticks much more tightly to the lore of the ME universe.

Also, here' a very in-depth rubble comparison of the ending scene done by Gunslinger_ruiz:  http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/2140#11951474


So, what if you kept the collector base in ME2?

Well, nothing, seriously...  It’s been said that the control option is available first when you have a really low EMS and chose to save the base; and many use this as an argument against the indoctrination theory. 

But, I look at this way; if Shepard made the immoral choice of retaining a technology that is that perverse and than decides to freely handed it over to the most sinister man in the whole galaxy, it’s pretty clear that Shepard’s resolve to destroy the Reapers has started to wane.

It’s interesting to see that what was once considered a renegade action now leads to the “paragon-colored” conclusion to the series. Which I guess is where I’ll start to dissect it a little bit; I guess the first point most raise is that Shepard’s perception of what is right and wrong has now been clouded by the Reaper indoctrination (much like how the Codex points out) and hence why he doesn’t actually see this option for what it really is, but that also raises another issue, which is “why would Shepard actually care if it was blue, red, purple, tangerine or pink with plaid stripes?” the simple answer is: he wouldn’t, the blue paragon and red renegade options are only something us the player are witnesses too, it’s a system for us to judge quickly and easily what those options are. So if we separate the colors out of the equation, we could look at it from the point of view that Shepard had already once sided with the illusive man (an agent of the reapers) and potentially could see the value in the dangled carrot of power that is the “control ending”, not only this but Shepard also showed he was able to help secure one of the most crucial bits of tech in the universe and that he was willing to sacrifice humanities soul to do so, proving that he was malleable and more willing to see things from the enemies perspective, not only making him easier to indoctrinate but that he had enough clout to keep around as an asset due to his outcome focussed attitude. This might also have been the easiest way for the reapers to get Shepard out of the picture and remove him as a liability in their war against organics.

This could be paralleled with the alternative low EMS option of Destroy being the only option, demonstrating Shepard’s desire to overcome the Reapers but never actually having the strength to do so. Either way the Reapers win their psychological battle with Shepard and in both cases plays to Shepard’s weaknesses to take him out of the picture one way or another depending on his moral stance. This could possibly just be demonstrating their desire to take the path of least resistance.

Other things to keep into consideration: 

The illusive man (Jack Harper) was altered by a Reaper Artifact on Shanxi during the first contact war (about 3 decades before ME2) Not only did this encounter change his eyes (that’s right, they’re not implants), it also makes him able to sense Reaper artifacts and also gave him the ability to speak every alien dialect including that of the Reapers themselves. It’s also to be noted that he started Cerberus after this and that it’s possibly an idea that Reapers implanted into him... he’s also indoctrinated.

Shepard’s encounter with Object Rho is considered Canon by ME3 lead writer Mac Walters as stated in his comic ME:Conviction.

Posted Image

Object Rho is considered only one of the many possible points in which Shepard’s indoctrination could begin, although it’s the most obvious considering this artifact affects Shepard much in the same way the Arch Monolith affected Jack Harper (by putting him in a coma).

Posted Image

The illusive man is the only person (other than Reaper-Child) to consider Control as a viable option, and considering he’s indoctrinated would you really consider this to be a wise choice?
Only Saren and maybe Kai Leng consider Synthesis to be the only way forward, but yet again “Indoctrinated”
All you most trusted friends and allies (even EDI and the Geth) would consider Destroy to be the only option... and none of them are indoctrinated.

All through ME2 Harbinger wants to capture Shepard as mentioned in all of his comments to the commander, not only this but it’s shown in ME:Redemption that the Collectors want Shepard’s body. So why doesn’t the illusive man just hand Shep’s body over to them? Simple: He’s indoctrinated, not a husk, the Reapers have planted subtle ideas in his head not assumed control of him, The Illusive man still has some degree of free will and in all honesty he believes that what he is doing is right, unfortunately the Reapers have clouded his judgement.

The meaning of the word Catalyst:

1. Chemistry: a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected.2. something that causes activity between two or more persons or forces without itself being affected.3. a person or thing that precipitates an event or change.4. a person whose talk, enthusiasm, or energy causes others to be more friendly, enthusiastic, or energetic.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 09 mai 2012 - 11:44 .


#53502
paxxton

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pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Look at it from the other side. Advanced organics do not want to make room for younger species so they have to be forced. Hence the harvesters and others. Out of necessity.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 mai 2012 - 12:54 .


#53503
MegumiAzusa

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Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.

#53504
Icinix

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.

#53505
Salient Archer

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Btw, I wouldn't blame anyone for not reading my "wall of text" above.

#53506
MegumiAzusa

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Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.

You didn't read my second sentence, did you?

#53507
Stigweird85

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Salient Archer wrote...

Btw, I wouldn't blame anyone for not reading my "wall of text" above.


TBH I skimmed it Posted Image but I'm sure I read it way back when it was originally posted.

#53508
Salient Archer

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Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.


We have wintessed the harvesters before, they're in ME2, they inhabit Tuchanka and Tarith. You see them droping off Klixen during Grunt's loyalty mission.

#53509
Salient Archer

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Posted Image

#53510
Icinix

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.

You didn't read my second sentence, did you?


I did, but it doesn't change anything - Thresher Maws are on different worlds, the maws themselves seem to be pretty wide spread throughout the galaxy including being on a habitated space faring world the Reapers are invading.

Surely the Reapers have encountered both, and there is about as much evidence of them being space faring as the Harvesters? So really if they use Harvesters, surely they can use Yhag and Maws.

#53511
BleedingUranium

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Salient Archer wrote...

*snipe, cause it's right above this*


Very well put together, we should bother Byne until he updates the main page, specifically with this. Posted Image

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 09 mai 2012 - 12:41 .


#53512
Salient Archer

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bigstig wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Btw, I wouldn't blame anyone for not reading my "wall of text" above.


TBH I skimmed it Posted Image but I'm sure I read it way back when it was originally posted.


hahaha, TBH, I think I'd skim it as well.

#53513
MegumiAzusa

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Salient Archer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.


We have wintessed the harvesters before, they're in ME2, they inhabit Tuchanka and Tarith. You see them droping off Klixen during Grunt's loyalty mission.

Harvesters in ME2 were quite different. In ME3 they had 2 big wings instead of 4, the general shape is more dragon like etc. It would be hard to tell if these things were really because of Reaper manipulation or if it's a different species.

#53514
BleedingUranium

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.


We have wintessed the harvesters before, they're in ME2, they inhabit Tuchanka and Tarith. You see them droping off Klixen during Grunt's loyalty mission.

Harvesters in ME2 were quite different. In ME3 they had 2 big wings instead of 4, the general shape is more dragon like etc. It would be hard to tell if these things were really because of Reaper manipulation or if it's a different species.


Cannibles look quite different from Batarians, and Ravagers are really fat. I'm pretty sure they're the same thing.

#53515
Icinix

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BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

We have wintessed the harvesters before, they're in ME2, they inhabit Tuchanka and Tarith. You see them droping off Klixen during Grunt's loyalty mission.

Harvesters in ME2 were quite different. In ME3 they had 2 big wings instead of 4, the general shape is more dragon like etc. It would be hard to tell if these things were really because of Reaper manipulation or if it's a different species.


Cannibles look quite different from Batarians, and Ravagers are really fat. I'm pretty sure they're the same thing.


Yeah, it says in the codex that the Reapers have repurposed a number of Harvesters to use as troop transports.

#53516
Salient Archer

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BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Starchild: We harvest advanced species, leaving the younger ones alone (we only convert them into harvesters, nothing serious).

Each time I see a harvester I'm reminded of starchild's shameless lie.


Pretty much - but I do believe that is merely an oversight on the writers part....

...well, yet another oversight.

There is a distinction between harvesting thus eradicate an entire species and transforming a few of lesser species into servants.
Also Harvesters are unknown to the current cycle as stated in some lines, maybe they were about equal to the Rachni, looking primitive but still space-traveling etc.


But why then would the Reapers leave the Yahg alone? Why wouldn't they take a few and use them for some pretty awesome weapons on the battlefield? Same as the Thresher Maws? They could reaperise those two particular units, and drop them down on most planets and be much more effective than a thousand husks.


We have wintessed the harvesters before, they're in ME2, they inhabit Tuchanka and Tarith. You see them droping off Klixen during Grunt's loyalty mission.

Harvesters in ME2 were quite different. In ME3 they had 2 big wings instead of 4, the general shape is more dragon like etc. It would be hard to tell if these things were really because of Reaper manipulation or if it's a different species.


Cannibles look quite different from Batarians, and Ravagers are really fat. I'm pretty sure they're the same thing.


It's also stated in the Art of Mass Effect that they're are in fact the ones we see in ME2.

Also the Wikia seems to have noted this as well:
Harvesters are huge creatures that inhabit several worlds throughout the galaxy, including Tuchanka and Tarith.Harvesters are intimidating creatures, being nearly a third of the size of aThresher Maw and highly aggressive. Their primary means of attack appears to be flying low and "dropping" klixen. This could mean that harvesters either birth klixen or simply pick them up and relocate them. Either way suggests a rather fiendish intelligence; the harvesters are smart enough to use klixen both as shock troops and, failing that, mobile ordnance.During the Reaper invasion of the galaxy, numerous harvesters were corrupted and utilized by the Reapers as airborne troop transports.

#53517
Salient Archer

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I should also point out the line: Their primary means of attack appears to be flying low and "dropping" klixen. This could mean that harvesters either birth klixen or simply pick them up and relocate them. Either way suggests a rather fiendish intelligence; the harvesters are smart enough to use klixen both as shock troops and, failing that, mobile ordnance.

EDIT: so much like the Rachni, they are considered a highly evolved intelligent race, regardless of appearances.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 09 mai 2012 - 12:58 .


#53518
Icinix

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Salient Archer wrote...

I should also point out the line: Their primary means of attack appears to be flying low and "dropping" klixen. This could mean that harvesters either birth klixen or simply pick them up and relocate them. Either way suggests a rather fiendish intelligence; the harvesters are smart enough to use klixen both as shock troops and, failing that, mobile ordnance.

EDIT: so much like the Rachni, they are considered a highly evolved intelligent race, regardless of appearances.


Ants do this too, but I wouldn't say the Reapers would class them as a highly evolved intelligent race.

They also farm scale and mealy bug and when at war will parade enemy ants heads around. Some Ants will also cut leaves and use them to cross small bodies of water.

However, Reapers don't seem to care much for animal intelligence or instinct, the Harvesters do appear to be the exception.

#53519
Salient Archer

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Don't get me wrong, I think StarKid is full of crap. But... do we really know enough about the Harvesters to say that their intelligence is only animalistic?

EDIT: btw, I now have a new appreciation for Ants.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 09 mai 2012 - 01:09 .


#53520
Icinix

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Salient Archer wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I think StarKid is full of crap. But... do we really know enough about the Harvesters to say that their intelligence is only animalistic?


Of for sure, but do we know enough about the other species not used to say they aren't intelligent? Thresher Maws will use lures to attract scavengers to their nest, and the Yahg are clearly highly intelligent and adaptabe.

I just think its odd that Harvesters seem to be the exception when there is as much evidence of them being space faring as there are Maws - which would make a much more valuable ground assault unit than a flying APC.

Edit: On the ants! No kidding! They are amazing, seriously the things they do are just mind boggling.

Modifié par Icinix, 09 mai 2012 - 01:11 .


#53521
Jononarf

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wow. 2141 pages of this. you know they did state that the endings will remain unchanged, but does that mean they could add more after the breath in the red ending or more after leading up to joker hightailing it out of there? Or you think they will just add more in the beginning and middle?

#53522
Rosewind

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Jononarf wrote...

wow. 2141 pages of this. you know they did state that the endings will remain unchanged, but does that mean they could add more after the breath in the red ending or more after leading up to joker hightailing it out of there? Or you think they will just add more in the beginning and middle?


You don't understand the IDT, we dont really need the ending changed at all just extended.

#53523
Salient Archer

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Jononarf wrote...

wow. 2141 pages of this. you know they did state that the endings will remain unchanged, but does that mean they could add more after the breath in the red ending or more after leading up to joker hightailing it out of there? Or you think they will just add more in the beginning and middle?


“We are all incredibly proud of Mass Effect 3[/i] and the work done by Casey Hudson and team. Since launch, we have had time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are responding,” Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare said in the press release. “With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team’s artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe.”

So were does it say that the endings will be unchanged? 

#53524
Stigweird85

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Jononarf wrote...

wow. 2141 pages of this. you know they did state that the endings will remain unchanged, but does that mean they could add more after the breath in the red ending or more after leading up to joker hightailing it out of there? Or you think they will just add more in the beginning and middle?


There will be DLC during the middle of the game to come(Retake Omega for example) however the EC is to specifically address the ending:

"The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned"  That's why people are assume IT  or something similar as it allows the existing endings to remain as they are but doesn't change the endings.

Quote from this FAQ on the Bioware blog

They categorically state that be no further ending DLC is planned meaning EC is most definitly ending related. If nothing else they need to explain
1: What happens to the relays and surrounding systems,
2: Why Joker and your LI abandon you

Modifié par bigstig, 09 mai 2012 - 01:40 .


#53525
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
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Icinix wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I think StarKid is full of crap. But... do we really know enough about the Harvesters to say that their intelligence is only animalistic?


Of for sure, but do we know enough about the other species not used to say they aren't intelligent? Thresher Maws will use lures to attract scavengers to their nest, and the Yahg are clearly highly intelligent and adaptabe.

I just think its odd that Harvesters seem to be the exception when there is as much evidence of them being space faring as there are Maws - which would make a much more valuable ground assault unit than a flying APC.

Edit: On the ants! No kidding! They are amazing, seriously the things they do are just mind boggling.


Granted, Thresher Maws would make a very fierce and tactical enemy but I could see it being a logistical nightmare to transport and they wouldn't be as dynamic in theaters of differing diversities. 
Also considering you cover more circumstances and effectively more ground with small assault teams (ie: husks, marauders) you'd be better off investing into those units and the most efficient way of delivering these troops would be with an airborne apc. As it could essentially get troops down quicker, more dynamically and more effectively. Maybe it's not a case of intelligence but rather filling a need. 

Not to mention accessibility, it might be a lot harder to obtain thresher maws as troops than it is to enslave harvesters. Basically putting them in the "too-hard" basket, much like the Salerians, Yahg, Volus or Elcor ... the combination of their  effectiveness vs acquisition puts them out of the equation ..... until there's another $10 DLC that is.  :whistle: