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[ExtendedCut]

Simon_Says wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

An interesting point. Something controlling the Reapers is clearly foreshadowed in the Prothean VI on Thessia, it is along the lines of "it seems that Reapers are the servants of the cycles, not their masters" and saying "there might be something behind them". With such strong foreshadowing in the main plot, to any ITers, do you think that the EC will feature a figure like the Catalyst who controls the Reapers, but in reality?

First off I don't think it was implied that this controlling force was intelligent, but I may need to check again. Life on earth is guided by the demands of survival and instinct. Locusts swarm periodically, cause devestation, and then disappear for a time, but there's no intelligent force behind that.

Second, a controlling intelligence would likely be suitable if it didn't diminish the reapers' menace and sense of being truly 'alien'. Consider the Architect from either Matrix 2 or even DAO: Awakening. Both of those characters managed to be 'masterminds' behind their respective factions and yet both were executed in a way that was consistent with what we knew and felt of those factions. However, the execution of Starbrat left much to be desired. Hence all the derisive jokes about the reapers being the Starbrat's toy ships.

I put forth my own suggestion for a more appropriate controlling intelligence of the reapers. It suggests something that's big, menacing, and beyond our comprehension on anything more than an academic level. It's something like the Party from Nineteen-Eighty-Four. It's the regime itself that's the dominating force, not any set of individuals within or without it.

Exactly.  Completely agree here.  I made a similar point yesterday about the Reapers going from the biggest, most powerful badguys in gaming history to the equivalent of Stormtroopers in the span of Starbrat's little "solution" speech.

[lex0r11]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm imagining some fat mouth breathing atlas terrorizing some half robot rabbit.

Imagine an Atlas and a YMIR hooking up.

*walk up to an Atlas*

Atlas: HUMAN, I WANT YOU INSIDE ME!

*slowly back away*



Synthesis is just really creepy on top of being stupid space magic.

It's way back in the thread but it just hit me.

youtu.be/_NHgfgE4i5o

[estebanus]

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but I may have found another clue that alludes to the IT.

When you have A shepard that saved the Collector base in ME2, you will only have the control option. Well, I think I may have found out why.
Right before you attack the cerberus headquarters, you can speak with Hackett about Illusive Man. Hackett will say that the illusive man is wrong, and that trying to control the reapers is like trying to control a great white shark: Someone is going to end up dead, and in this case, it would be the entire galaxy.

Shepard will then have the option to say: "But what if he is right?" Hackett then says that Shepard has to snap out of it, and that it is an order to kill the illusive man, at any cost.

This more or less shows that Shepard is seriously considering to control the reapers, in which case Harbinger would have an easy time indoctrinating him/her. This also shows that Shepard is starting to agree with TIM's goal, who is clearly indoctrinated.

Thoughts?

[ExtendedCut]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

What's the secret to this?  Am I just an idiot?  I tried to get him to dance like four or five times and he never did it.  Me and him (it) just stood there staring at each other for 20 minutes at a time.

[byne]

ExtendedCut wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

An interesting point. Something controlling the Reapers is clearly foreshadowed in the Prothean VI on Thessia, it is along the lines of "it seems that Reapers are the servants of the cycles, not their masters" and saying "there might be something behind them". With such strong foreshadowing in the main plot, to any ITers, do you think that the EC will feature a figure like the Catalyst who controls the Reapers, but in reality?

First off I don't think it was implied that this controlling force was intelligent, but I may need to check again. Life on earth is guided by the demands of survival and instinct. Locusts swarm periodically, cause devestation, and then disappear for a time, but there's no intelligent force behind that.

Second, a controlling intelligence would likely be suitable if it didn't diminish the reapers' menace and sense of being truly 'alien'. Consider the Architect from either Matrix 2 or even DAO: Awakening. Both of those characters managed to be 'masterminds' behind their respective factions and yet both were executed in a way that was consistent with what we knew and felt of those factions. However, the execution of Starbrat left much to be desired. Hence all the derisive jokes about the reapers being the Starbrat's toy ships.

I put forth my own suggestion for a more appropriate controlling intelligence of the reapers. It suggests something that's big, menacing, and beyond our comprehension on anything more than an academic level. It's something like the Party from Nineteen-Eighty-Four. It's the regime itself that's the dominating force, not any set of individuals within or without it.

Exactly.  Completely agree here.  I made a similar point yesterday about the Reapers going from the biggest, most powerful badguys in gaming history to the equivalent of Stormtroopers in the span of Starbrat's little "solution" speech.

I watched the video of the chat with Sovereign the other day, and one of the top rated comments was "Ghost/God/kid - Haha Sovereign gives cool speeches, thats why he is one of my favorite toys."

When I saw that I died a little inside.

Modifié par byne, 09 mai 2012 - 04:45 .

[byne]

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

What's the secret to this?  Am I just an idiot?  I tried to get him to dance like four or five times and he never did it.  Me and him (it) just stood there staring at each other for 20 minutes at a time.

I think its just a rare thing he does.

I've beaten ME2 30+ times and seen it maybe twice.

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but I may have found another clue that alludes to the IT.

When you have A shepard that saved the Collector base in ME2, you will only have the control option. Well, I think I may have found out why.
Right before you attack the cerberus headquarters, you can speak with Hackett about Illusive Man. Hackett will say that the illusive man is wrong, and that trying to control the reapers is like trying to control a great white shark: Someone is going to end up dead, and in this case, it would be the entire galaxy.

Shepard will then have the option to say: "But what if he is right?" Hackett then says that Shepard has to snap out of it, and that it is an order to kill the illusive man, at any cost.

This more or less shows that Shepard is seriously considering to control the reapers, in which case Harbinger would have an easy time indoctrinating him/her. This also shows that Shepard is starting to agree with TIM's goal, who is clearly indoctrinated.

Thoughts?

As I always said: it's all about Sheps state of mind ^^

[ExtendedCut]

MaximizedAction wrote...


Thank you for mentioning this! Somehow people don't find this dialog important, but with this scene in mind, I didn't even have a problem with the ending as much as most people. I mean, it instantly explains 'where' the Normandy crashed.

And Stargazer doesn't seem so disconnected after that, either. Did this dialog also occur for other LI? If so, then maybe Shepard + LI DO end up on a distant world by choice.
And it's actually plausible that it's this two-mooned world for two reasons:
If Shepard dreams about this particular one, then maybe after the war, she's gonna look out for it to settle down on it.
And with Relays like the Omega 4, where there doesn't seem to be the need for another relay on the far end side, they can jump where ever they want. Maybe this is where they settle down.

On the other hand, maybe not every player wants their Shepard to settle down. Then maybe, after the war is over, and there is no need for the time capsule anymore, Liara decides to just send it out to where ever old SOB Newton brings it to. Maybe Shepard will want it to end up on this world she saw in her hallucination?

It's all in the stars...

Thanks for the insight!  When you explain it like that, then maybe it's not as bad as I thought.  Especially the last paragraph about the blackbox - maybe Stargazer actually has nothing to do with Shepard or his/her squad - Stargazer just happens to be on the planet where the blackbox landed, which had the "superhero" description of Shepard inside it - turning him into "Space Jesus" in the eyes of Stargazer's civilization over the course of 10,000 years.  Which would also allow for "one more story".

[estebanus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but I may have found another clue that alludes to the IT.

When you have A shepard that saved the Collector base in ME2, you will only have the control option. Well, I think I may have found out why.
Right before you attack the cerberus headquarters, you can speak with Hackett about Illusive Man. Hackett will say that the illusive man is wrong, and that trying to control the reapers is like trying to control a great white shark: Someone is going to end up dead, and in this case, it would be the entire galaxy.

Shepard will then have the option to say: "But what if he is right?" Hackett then says that Shepard has to snap out of it, and that it is an order to kill the illusive man, at any cost.

This more or less shows that Shepard is seriously considering to control the reapers, in which case Harbinger would have an easy time indoctrinating him/her. This also shows that Shepard is starting to agree with TIM's goal, who is clearly indoctrinated.

Thoughts?

As I always said: it's all about Sheps state of mind ^^

My point exactly.

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm imagining some fat mouth breathing atlas terrorizing some half robot rabbit.

Imagine an Atlas and a YMIR hooking up.

*walk up to an Atlas*

Atlas: HUMAN, I WANT YOU INSIDE ME!

*slowly back away*



Synthesis is just really creepy on top of being stupid space magic.

It's way back in the thread but it just hit me.

youtu.be/_NHgfgE4i5o

I am still very disappoint that at no point in the Joker/EDI romance did the following conversation take place:

Shepard: How can you date a ship anyway? It'd be like me dating a really fat lady. And living inside her. And she'd be all like... *ship noises*

Joker: Shepard, in order for me to get busy at maximum efficiency, I need a girl with a big 400 ton booty!

[Earthborn_Shepard]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

[byne]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

Modifié par byne, 09 mai 2012 - 04:57 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

wait.. what? You played it more than 30 times?
WHAT ARE YOU??

[byne]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...



wait.. what? You played it more than 30 times?
WHAT ARE YOU??

I'm a robot who has been programmed to play Mass Effect nonstop.

Beep boop.

[Boradam]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

wait.. what? You played it more than 30 times?
WHAT ARE YOU??

ahm batman

[MaximizedAction]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

ooooh, SNAP!

[Earthborn_Shepard]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...



wait.. what? You played it more than 30 times?
WHAT ARE YOU??

I'm a robot who has been programmed to play Mass Effect nonstop.

Beep boop.

Uh oh, you better hide. Bad things have been known to happen to Synthetics when I'm around.

[ExtendedCut]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

I wonder, if we made a poll, what the percentage of the total of all playthroughs played by everyone, that Kaidan lives.  1%?  Is that too high?

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...



wait.. what? You played it more than 30 times?
WHAT ARE YOU??

I'm a robot who has been programmed to play Mass Effect nonstop. Beep boop.

I'll just leave this here.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

I wonder, if we made a poll, what the percentage of the total of all playthroughs played by everyone, that Kaidan lives.  1%?  Is that too high?

Way too low. Never underestimate the number of fangirls.
Hell, there is a tumblr blog entirely dedicated to his butt.

[llbountyhunter]

gosh, mordin was such a player.

[MegumiAzusa]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Way too low. Never underestimate the number of fangirls.
Hell, there is a tumblr blog entirely dedicated to his butt.

Personal experience?

[byne]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...


I could never kill Wrex or Eve. I'd rather let Mordin die. I liked him, but Wrex was there from the beginning....

also yeah it's sad Legion dies. And to think I never really liked him in ME2! In ME3 he was amazing, but then of course he had to die. The renegade scene is even worse than shooting Mordin in the back, and that one is REALLY bad.

Blasphemy!

Did he not win you over with his awesome dance moves?

I think I was just too shocked by not being able to recruit Kaidan
most of the ME2 new crew members I never really cared about
ESPECIALLY YOU JACOB

I was pretty relieved I didnt get to recruit Carth Kaidan in ME2.

Irradiated piles of ash dont make good squadmates.



30+ games of ME1, Kaidan lived through exactly zero of them.

I wonder, if we made a poll, what the percentage of the total of all playthroughs played by everyone, that Kaidan lives.  1%?  Is that too high?

Way too low. Never underestimate the number of fangirls.
Hell, there is a tumblr blog entirely dedicated to his butt.

I like how the first quoted message in the quote pyramid is about how it is sad Legion dies, and it has somehow moved from that to Kaidan's butt.

This is why I love you guys.

[Kroen135]

There was a mention a few pages ago about Object RHO and how most seem to coin it as the first canon (atleast the most like likely successful attempt at it) indoctrination of Shepard. I would like to point out that during the gauntlet while Object Rho is charging up. It will say many things. It sounds just like Harbinger but if you run with subtitles clearly states that it is Object Rho saying it. (This doesn't mean it's Harbinger or it isn't. Although I personally believe it is but as I have no canon/in game proof; I will just say it's Object Rho.

Most of his things are ego maniacal crap. One thing does catch my attention and it's worth pointing out on this forum.

Object Rho: "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine."

Hmm, that sounds awfully close to indoctrination yes? Thoughts?
(sorry if it's been said before just now coming back since page 1800 lol)

[Earthborn_Shepard]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Way too low. Never underestimate the number of fangirls.
Hell, there is a tumblr blog entirely dedicated to his butt.

Personal experience?

with his butt? Sadly, no. But yeah I'm a fangirl.