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[FrostByte-GER]

rofl:
Xellith ‏ @Xellith
@masseffect @restingphoenix Maybe the Bioware staff are indoctrinated and just dont know it! Prolly some reaper tech in the office!

Mass Effect @masseffect
@xellith Shh! Stop revealing our secrets!

[Pojingu]

lookingglassmind wrote...

underthumb wrote...

rogueagent6 wrote...

Went back and checked the in-game codex. The following is quoted directly from the Indoctrination entry, paragraph 2:

"Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify it's signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind."

There it is, the whole ending is Shepard fighting those exact symptoms.

But that isn't what happened. Shepard did not hallucinate ghostly presences, she/he dreamt of them. That was established in-game, because Shepard always woke up from those sequences. Do you see the critical difference? Dreams are not hallucinations, and weird things happen in dreams, including nightmares.

Not certain how this disproves what the codex is saying.

Who is saying that Shepard wasn't hallucinating those dream sequences? And who ever said that dreams are not hallucinations?

Finally adding something to the thread. Find this all interesting and curious how it all will play out.
But on the topic, doesn't Shepard sit with a datapad in his hand, goin through things when he 'wake up' from one of the dreams. This points to that he either falls asleep at random due to lack of sleep, or it could support the indoctrination? What do you guys think?

[Kumekerion]

De1ta G wrote...

Kumekerion wrote...

I chose synthesis because I didn't want to destroy the geth or EDI. So if it was intentional manipulation of the player (me) then it worked lol.

I believe it was intentional manipulation. I fell for it as well. Now I realized that I made a mistake. Good thing I can redo it.

I went back immediately after finishing it and destroyed it hoping for a more fulflilling ending, didn't get one obviously but it was then that I noticed that the colors were all wrong for the choices. The thought of Bioware doing this to us would be pretty epic. I haven't enjoyed being manipulated this much since Andrew Ryan's office.

[rogueagent6]

underthumb wrote...

rogueagent6 wrote...

Went back and checked the in-game codex. The following is quoted directly from the Indoctrination entry, paragraph 2:

"Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify it's signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind."

There it is, the whole ending is Shepard fighting those exact symptoms.

But that isn't what happened. Shepard did not hallucinate ghostly presences, she/he dreamt of them. That was established in-game, because Shepard always woke up from those sequences. Do you see the critical difference? Dreams are not hallucinations, and weird things happen in dreams, including nightmares.

Unless of course you're simply referring to the fact that the star child, in the end, was kind of non-coporeal, which seems like a fairly weak connection.

I might agree with you on the hallucination point, but ghostly presences? There's no way you can convice me that "Catlyst Kid" isn't a ghostly presence. In addition to that, what do you call the whisps in Shep's dream? Again, ghostly presences.

Not only that, Casey came out and said "anything is possible" when asked if it was possible for Shep to become indoctrinated.

Lastly, the LAST thing the reapers want, Catlyst Kid included, is destruction. It makes sence they are going to pour on the pressure the closer you get to the end, and make it seem like destruction is the worst selection of the three. They are desperate.

Indoctrination people, all signs point to it.

Modifié par rogueagent6, 12 mars 2012 - 11:48 .

[Fledgey]

"with that answer you're spreading (false?) hope to a majority of players who're counting on this scenario ^^;"
masseffect - "No false hopes. Everyone can see it differently. It's open to interpretation."

[Katsaurs]

Ona Demonie wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

I think the child at the start is real...I mean, he's being loaded on to the shutle. I just think the Reapers know that Shep is distraught over that partilcular death (yes, I know that might not fit everyone's Shep ) and they're using it, just as they used TIM's desire to save humanity.

I don't.

1) When you first speak to him, he says "Everyone's dying". "You can't save me". What kid would say that? Typically a kid would say "Save me!", "I'm scared!", "Help!".
2) You look to Anderson, then back to the kid. He's gone... with no noise of his leave.
3) No one seems to notice him. Not even the guards or the people on the shuttle. He gets on by himself. ONLY Shepard sees him.

I mentioned it a page before but I think it got overlooked.

What if the child died in that room before the vent scene? You see the child run into that building before you get to it (if you take a moment to look at your surroundings before you reach that point) and then when Shep/Anderson finally get there a reaper blows it up somewhat.

[Obidex]

Time to choose destroy in NG+

[BlackDragonBane]

Fledgey wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Just replayed the ending choosing red mmm it is very interesting how Shepard stops limping around the more she shoots at the machine... and starts walking normally... as if she was regaining her resolve, maybe?

Uhmmm I don't want to cling to false hopes... but this Indoctrination hypothesis seems very enticing.

It is odd. That happens in all the endings. When it switches to cutscene you suddenly can sprint or stand up straight or shoot the **** out of that conduit.

With the Control ending, Shepard actual does fall and let go of the device for a few seconds before getting back on and finishing the process. That difference always bothered me for some reason since Shepard seems more determined in Synthesis (sprinting forward) and Destruction (Straightening up their stance) endings.

[G0thicRhino]

Rifneno wrote...

underthumb wrote...

But that isn't what happened. Shepard did not hallucinate ghostly presences, she/he dreamt of them. That was established in-game, because Shepard always woke up from those sequences. Do you see the critical difference? Dreams are not hallucinations, and weird things happen in dreams, including nightmares.

Unless of course you're simply referring to the fact that the star child, in the end, was kind of non-coporeal, which seems like a fairly weak connection.

"And I know I'm not the only one having those dreams!" - Log of an engineer in Arrival suffering early stages of indoctrination.

Important.

[ceruleancrescent]

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

[Dessalines]

wryterra wrote...

I've not seen every page of this thread but has anyone else noticed the weird vent-level sign with the universal symbol for 'risk of death by electrocution'? It's right next to the vent and the interpretation is clear: warning do not enter vent, danger. 

So, is that a hint that the child isn't really in there?

I don't think the kid is there either. He is always looking at Shephard, and the only one that sees him is Shephard. No one helps him up in the shuttle. He doesn't get back with the other people in the shuttle.

[Aoba]

Not sure if this has been brought up already (don't have time to look through 200+ pages), so if it has, my apologies. If it hasn't, uh, yay?

So, I think I may have found something that may lend credence to the "hallucination" theory. Since I'm terrible at keeping comments short 'n tidy, let me just link you to one of the many pages that popped up after Bioware announced the last VGA teaser trailer clue back in 2010, which eventually led to the reveal of ME3.

Latest Bioware VGA Teaser is a Red Herring

And here's the best definition I could find for said fish:

A red herring is a clue or piece of information which is intended to be misleading, or distracting from the actual issue. For example, in mystery fiction, where the identity of a criminal is being sought, an innocent party may be purposefully cast in a guilty light by the author through the employment of deceptive clues, false emphasis, "loaded" words or other descriptive tricks of the trade. The reader's suspicions are thus misdirected, allowing the true culprit to go (temporarily at least) undetected.

Seems the Catalyst/Child fits the definition of a "red herring" to a C. ... That is a joke.

Now, if all of this ends up being true, I shall applaud Bioware for managing to "indoctrinate" most if not all of their fanbase. This would be the best damned trolling ever, tbh.

[ EDIT'd for spelling and formatting errors. Stupid BBC code. ]

Modifié par ACWolfe, 12 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[TcomJ]

Ok, I admit that the part where Shep is on The Crucible makes so much sense witht he theory you guys mention.... BUT THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS THEORY.

For Hallucination theory:

- So after you choose any of the option, the main problem is with JOKER!!!! Don't for get he runs away from the blast regardless what the color is.

- Your crewmate magically appear to be on the Normandy when they were fighting on Earth.

- So if you choose red and Shep appears, Joker land on a random planet is now a dream too? Massrelay destruction is a dream too? C'mon.

Therefore the halucination (dreaming) theory doesn't support why this ending is so bad.

For indoctrination theory:

- This is a really good theory explaining this ending, but the ending is still horrifying compare of how much better Bioware can do.

- Think about it, spend 100+ hrs for ME1,2,3, collecting crucible techs, military strength, and try to save everybody making the peace pact...."Sorry, your shep is now indoctrinated and you only have this option". More like a sorry excuse to be lazy.

- With the list just above, tell me with your straight face that this is a good design endings???

This is the ending I recommend you guys to read. It has indoctrination element and much clearer explaination of what actually happen to the story for any players:


http://social.biowar...index/9833130/1
THIS IS NOW MY ENDING!!!! VERY WELL WRITTEN!!!

Modifié par TcomJ, 12 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[wryterra]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'm not going to lie, I'm getting really tired of Bioware jerking us around with this. Either way it goes, I'd like to have an answer soon.

The only official comment I've seen form BioWare is a reminder that the game isn't even out in all territories so let's give everyone a chance to play it first. (Paraphrasing but that was about it) 

[PrivateFrost]

Obidex wrote...

Time to choose destroy in NG+

About NG+, do I just need to press New Game > Import ME3 character?

[raeting]

Hehe, everyone is right! The ending is open to interpretation.

[Fattness132]

PrivateFrost wrote...

Obidex wrote...

Time to choose destroy in NG+

About NG+, do I just need to press New Game > Import ME3 character?

Yup.

[Kumekerion]

Fledgey wrote...

"with that answer you're spreading (false?) hope to a majority of players who're counting on this scenario ^^;"
masseffect - "No false hopes. Everyone can see it differently. It's open to interpretation."

Either way, i'd take the false hope considering how bad I felt thirty minutes ago. I've never felt so upset about a game before!

[ReclaimedHavoc]

G0thicRhino wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

underthumb wrote...

But that isn't what happened. Shepard did not hallucinate ghostly presences, she/he dreamt of them. That was established in-game, because Shepard always woke up from those sequences. Do you see the critical difference? Dreams are not hallucinations, and weird things happen in dreams, including nightmares.

Unless of course you're simply referring to the fact that the star child, in the end, was kind of non-coporeal, which seems like a fairly weak connection.

"And I know I'm not the only one having those dreams!" - Log of an engineer in Arrival suffering early stages of indoctrination.

Important.

Good find.

[Fledgey]

TcomJ wrote...

Ok, I admit that the part where Shep is on The Crucible makes so much sense witht he theory you guys mention.... BUT THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS THEORY.

For Hallucination theory:

- So after you choose any of the option, the main problem is with JOKER!!!! Don't for get he runs away from the blast regardless what the color is.

- Your crewmate magically appear to be on the Normandy when they were fighting on Earth.

- So if you choose red and Shep appears, Joker land on a random planet is now a dream too? Massrelay destruction is a dream too? C'mon.

Therefore the halucination (dreaming) theory doesn't support why this ending is so bad.

For indoctrination theory:

- This is a really good theory explaining this ending, but the ending is still horrifying compare of how much better Bioware can do.

- Think about it, spend 100+ hrs for ME1,2,3, collecting crucible techs, military strength, and try to save everybody making the peace pact...."Sorry, your shep is now indoctrinated and you only have this option". More like a sorry excuse to be lazy.

- With the list just above, tell me with your straight face that this is a good design endings???

This is the ending I recommend you guys to read. It has indoctrination element and much clearer explaination of what actually happen to the story for any players:


http://social.biowar...index/9833130/1
THIS IS NOW MY ENDING!!!! VERY WELL WRITTEN!!!

 I'm really sick of you pushing this **** when everyone has probably already read it. The discussion for it is in that thread. It's obvious you're not reading this thread, because all of those questions have already been answered.

[Priss Blackburne]

I don't know if this was said before but I did notice when Shepard started firing at the destroy option with the gun he/she was very weak barely able to fire. Then got stronger and more confident the more shots he/she fired at it.

[FugitiveMind]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

rofl:
Xellith ‏ @Xellith
@masseffect @restingphoenix Maybe the Bioware staff are indoctrinated and just dont know it! Prolly some reaper tech in the office!

Mass Effect @masseffect
@xellith Shh! Stop revealing our secrets!

Answer to that is:

We have to, you guys certainly aren't telling us anything

[Auresta]

PrivateFrost wrote...

Obidex wrote...

Time to choose destroy in NG+

About NG+, do I just need to press New Game > Import ME3 character?

Yes - in your documents there will be a generated NewGame+ file that the game will auto-detect should you want to import from ME3.

[xAmilli0n]

Fledgey wrote...

"with that answer you're spreading (false?) hope to a majority of players who're counting on this scenario ^^;"
masseffect - "No false hopes. Everyone can see it differently. It's open to interpretation."

Not the most satisfying response...