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[dreamgazer]

Rosewind wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks that metal looking thing in the background looks like the bonnet of a old 1950's car?

At face-value, it sure does. (laughs)

But in terms of looking at it with the setting in mind, it looks like Reaper tech / part of the conduit to me. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Check my sig for a comparison of Reaper cable in the breath scene. Interesting wrinkle, I went all through London and didn't find one Reaper cable but found plenty of breath scene rubble. Now, if we assume the rubble means the scene takes place on Earth then it can't take place on the Citadel. If we assume the cables are from the Citadel, then the breath scene can't take place on Earth....

They cannot take place on each other mostly because of this:


*Snip*

Shepard is ground zero for that explosion, it's large enough to knock the Citadel apart. There would be nothing left of Shepard to Get knocked back into the elavator or the beam or to ride out Citadel wreckage back to Earth. Not only that, there isn't anything I would call "Citadel tech" in the Breath scene. Everything identifiable is either Earth in origin or has Reaper-tech trademarks.

Now, it's possible the Beam itself had these Reaper cables, but we cannot see where from Shepard's perspective and believe me I've tried.

I know you can't see them. I even used flycam to check and they weren't there, so I believe you. This is why I'm not 100% convinced.

Now what I've observed since the beginning of all this is that time seems to pass strangely. The time it takes for Shepard to wake up, the space magic to cover the earth, the space magic to shoot, and the Citadel to blow up seemed odd.

How long was Shepard out? Minutes? Hours? We don't know. How about the time that it takes to cover the Earth with space magic, red in the case we're discussing?

If you take a look at the image when the Citadel is exploding shortly after it shoots, you can see the earth and all space behind it is clear. The read magic has clear up on a planetary scale. This indicated that some time has gone by between the spread of the red magic and the actual shot and explosion. Giving Shepard more than enough time to find a way out.

One possibility is that he made it back down to through the beam just before the explosion and cables came frrom citadel debris, or that he may have hitched a ride on the crucible. Who knows if the crucible was built with an escape plan, since it was built with the possibility of destroying the citadel.

Hitching a ride on the crucible would explain some of the odd parts in the final scene and the cables, while the blocks would indicate that the crucible made it back to earth.

It's a long shot but what do you guys think?

I wouldnt think so. There is no visible way down from the platform where you make the choices and Shepard was out when he was transported up by the elevator platform thing, a elevator which dosent seem to have standard controls even if Shepard was aware of it.

And before that the tube also blows up in Shepards unprotected face.

It could be possible the Reaper cables are running below the ground. The concrete is pretty torn up, it could have been beneath it as power cable or something for the conduit.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 09 mai 2012 - 09:18 .

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Check my sig for a comparison of Reaper cable in the breath scene. Interesting wrinkle, I went all through London and didn't find one Reaper cable but found plenty of breath scene rubble. Now, if we assume the rubble means the scene takes place on Earth then it can't take place on the Citadel. If we assume the cables are from the Citadel, then the breath scene can't take place on Earth....

They cannot take place on each other mostly because of this:


*Snip*

Shepard is ground zero for that explosion, it's large enough to knock the Citadel apart. There would be nothing left of Shepard to Get knocked back into the elavator or the beam or to ride out Citadel wreckage back to Earth. Not only that, there isn't anything I would call "Citadel tech" in the Breath scene. Everything identifiable is either Earth in origin or has Reaper-tech trademarks.

Now, it's possible the Beam itself had these Reaper cables, but we cannot see where from Shepard's perspective and believe me I've tried.

I know you can't see them. I even used flycam to check and they weren't there, so I believe you. This is why I'm not 100% convinced.

Now what I've observed since the beginning of all this is that time seems to pass strangely. The time it takes for Shepard to wake up, the space magic to cover the earth, the space magic to shoot, and the Citadel to blow up seemed odd.

How long was Shepard out? Minutes? Hours? We don't know. How about the time that it takes to cover the Earth with space magic, red in the case we're discussing?

If you take a look at the image when the Citadel is exploding shortly after it shoots, you can see the earth and all space behind it is clear. The read magic has clear up on a planetary scale. This indicated that some time has gone by between the spread of the red magic and the actual shot and explosion. Giving Shepard more than enough time to find a way out.

One possibility is that he made it back down to through the beam just before the explosion and cables came frrom citadel debris, or that he may have hitched a ride on the crucible. Who knows if the crucible was built with an escape plan, since it was built with the possibility of destroying the citadel.

Hitching a ride on the crucible would explain some of the odd parts in the final scene and the cables, while the blocks would indicate that the crucible made it back to earth.

It's a long shot but what do you guys think?

In destroy, Shepard is pretty clearly shown caught in the explosion of the tube, and with her armor destroyed and no kinetic barriers, it'd probly have seriously ****ed her up.

So, after getting an explosion to the face, on top of the injuries she already had (which were enough to cause her to pass out), she somehow then stumbled back onto the elevator, all the way down the path she walked up, made it to the place the beam dropped her, and found a way to activate it from that side, then somehow ended up covered in rubble and unconscious again?

Sorry, I really dont see that happening.

As for hitching a ride on the Crucible: it was caught in the explosion too, so I dont see how Shep would hitch a ride on it.

[Rosewind]

dreamgazer wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks that metal looking thing in the background looks like the bonnet of a old 1950's car?

At face-value, it sure does. (laughs)

But in terms of looking at it with the setting in mind, it looks like Reaper tech / part of the conduit to me. 

Lol I know what it's meant to be but does look like a bonnet of a car if you not paying attention.

[EpyonX3]

Eh, worth a shot. Still pondering though.

[llbountyhunter]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Check my sig for a comparison of Reaper cable in the breath scene. Interesting wrinkle, I went all through London and didn't find one Reaper cable but found plenty of breath scene rubble. Now, if we assume the rubble means the scene takes place on Earth then it can't take place on the Citadel. If we assume the cables are from the Citadel, then the breath scene can't take place on Earth....

They cannot take place on each other mostly because of this:


*Snip*

Shepard is ground zero for that explosion, it's large enough to knock the Citadel apart. There would be nothing left of Shepard to Get knocked back into the elavator or the beam or to ride out Citadel wreckage back to Earth. Not only that, there isn't anything I would call "Citadel tech" in the Breath scene. Everything identifiable is either Earth in origin or has Reaper-tech trademarks.

Now, it's possible the Beam itself had these Reaper cables, but we cannot see where from Shepard's perspective and believe me I've tried.

I know you can't see them. I even used flycam to check and they weren't there, so I believe you. This is why I'm not 100% convinced.

Now what I've observed since the beginning of all this is that time seems to pass strangely. The time it takes for Shepard to wake up, the space magic to cover the earth, the space magic to shoot, and the Citadel to blow up seemed odd.

How long was Shepard out? Minutes? Hours? We don't know. How about the time that it takes to cover the Earth with space magic, red in the case we're discussing?

If you take a look at the image when the Citadel is exploding shortly after it shoots, you can see the earth and all space behind it is clear. The read magic has clear up on a planetary scale. This indicated that some time has gone by between the spread of the red magic and the actual shot and explosion. Giving Shepard more than enough time to find a way out.

One possibility is that he made it back down to through the beam just before the explosion and cables came frrom citadel debris, or that he may have hitched a ride on the crucible. Who knows if the crucible was built with an escape plan, since it was built with the possibility of destroying the citadel.

Hitching a ride on the crucible would explain some of the odd parts in the final scene and the cables, while the blocks would indicate that the crucible made it back to earth.

It's a long shot but what do you guys think?

I wouldnt think so. There is no visible way down from the platform where you make the choices and Shepard was out when he was transported up by the elevator platform thing, a elevator which dosent seem to have standard controls even if Shepard was aware of it.

And before that the tube also blows up in Shepards unprotected face.

Hey if we go with the "Shepards indoctrination began at the shuttle crash" a then we would see any cable in the scene would we? 

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Because some pesky humans might breach your defenses and ride the beam up to the Citadel, totally undoing all your plans?

I really doubt the Reapers are stupid enough to leave a gaping hole in their defenses just out of convenience.

Arrogance leads to overconfidence.

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

[EpyonX3]

RedDeadRemix wrote...

Here's a thought: Joker isnt looking backwards in destroy/synthesis...he's looking to his right, where EDI is sitting. In synthesis, she's all turning half-organic, somehow, but in destroy, she could be malfunctioning and dying, because of her Reaper tech upgrades.
I don't think all Geth died, or most of the Catalyst's disingenuous assertions, but this is a valid possibility.
Why Joker forgets his true love and sentient spaceship is dead immediately afterwords, is another story...

This is another instance where we don't know how much time passes by. It could have been minutes to up to a few days before they left the ship.

I wouldn't say it was immediate just because the scene cuts to it in that time frame.

[Uncle Jo]

Double post sorry.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 09 mai 2012 - 09:41 .

[PlumPaul93]

byne wrote...Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

If they're stupid enough to not kill Shepard when he is "indoctrinated" I don't see why not.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

RedDeadRemix wrote...

Here's a thought: Joker isnt looking backwards in destroy/synthesis...he's looking to his right, where EDI is sitting. In synthesis, she's all turning half-organic, somehow, but in destroy, she could be malfunctioning and dying, because of her Reaper tech upgrades.
I don't think all Geth died, or most of the Catalyst's disingenuous assertions, but this is a valid possibility.
Why Joker forgets his true love and sentient spaceship is dead immediately afterwords, is another story...

This is another instance where we don't know how much time passes by. It could have been minutes to up to a few days before they left the ship.

I wouldn't say it was immediate just because the scene cuts to it in that time frame.

So Joker and Liara just sat in the ship crying for a few days over the loss of EDI and Shepard respectively, and then came out of the ship smiling like idiots?

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Because some pesky humans might breach your defenses and ride the beam up to the Citadel, totally undoing all your plans?

I really doubt the Reapers are stupid enough to leave a gaping hole in their defenses just out of convenience.

Arrogance leads to overconfidence.

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

[MegumiAzusa]

RedDeadRemix wrote...

Here's a thought: Joker isnt looking backwards in destroy/synthesis...he's looking to his right, where EDI is sitting. In synthesis, she's all turning half-organic, somehow, but in destroy, she could be malfunctioning and dying, because of her Reaper tech upgrades.
I don't think all Geth died, or most of the Catalyst's disingenuous assertions, but this is a valid possibility.
Why Joker forgets his true love and sentient spaceship is dead immediately afterwords, is another story...

That is quite an interesting observation, also I dunno if they just reused the scene, but in synthesis the Reapers in the background when the Citadel is firing are drifting like in destroy oO

[swordmalice]

As much as I would like to believe in the IT, I honestly don't think this is viable. Allow me to play devil's advocate here, and posit two problems I have with it.

1. If I am to believe that the IT is true, and everything post-Harbinger attack is an illusion, where does the Illusive Man fit into this? Bioware would certainly have to wrap up that plot point when (or if) Shepard breaks through the indoctrination.

2. Also, if the IT is true, then Bioware shipped us an incomplete game. What would be the point of holding out on the "true ending" for so long, given the hype that preceded this game's release? I can't see any rational game developer thinking that this would be a good idea, knowing that there'd be severe outrage at the "perceived" ending and its lunacy.

Again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I'm just trying to see this from every possible angle before I accept this theory's viability.

[Uncle Jo]

Adambomb1222 wrote...

I'm guessing the "cables" are something like futuristic rebar, the stuff they use to reinforce concrete... The same concrerte rubble we see lying all around Shaepard.

EDIT: And say Shepard did fall from space when the Citadel was destroyed... how would there be huge slabs of concrete ontop of him?

I'mfairly sure that it's not a rebar. It's too thick and the design is completely different. I've played for two days the Derelict Reaper mission and there is there tons of Reaper cables which look exactly the same as that what we see in the breath scene.


@EpyonX3

That the Citadel could have somehow protected Shep from the lethal consequences of an atmosphere re-entry and the lack of oxygen, could be an explanation. Or that he miraculously managed to reach the beam (another problem is that the Beam has just one way : up)
But the problem is that, as many others pointed it out, even if he survived to the Citadel's explosion, he took first the tank explosion at point-blank range without shields or armor.


@MegumiAzusa

"Sounds to me like metal beams under stress."

Very true. As I heard it for the first time, the first thing I thought about was the sound of a ship wreckage.
Yet what kind of metallic structures do we have there ? The buildings are rather far away from the where the scene took place but the sound is very near (I would say upon Shepard). Could it come from the giant columns surrounding the Beam ?


@Gunslinger_ruiz

I could hear neither the reaper howls nor the beats, but I think it's because my headphones aren't good enough and the sound is echoed...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 09 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

RedDeadRemix wrote...

Here's a thought: Joker isnt looking backwards in destroy/synthesis...he's looking to his right, where EDI is sitting. In synthesis, she's all turning half-organic, somehow, but in destroy, she could be malfunctioning and dying, because of her Reaper tech upgrades.
I don't think all Geth died, or most of the Catalyst's disingenuous assertions, but this is a valid possibility.
Why Joker forgets his true love and sentient spaceship is dead immediately afterwords, is another story...

This is another instance where we don't know how much time passes by. It could have been minutes to up to a few days before they left the ship.

I wouldn't say it was immediate just because the scene cuts to it in that time frame.

So Joker and Liara just sat in the ship crying for a few days over the loss of EDI and Shepard respectively, and then came out of the ship smiling like idiots?

What I mean is that they were most likely drifting before they enter the atmosphere of that planet. I'm sure they also tested the planet to be sure it's cool before getting out. Unleass they already knew what planet ther were on.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

So in your version of events, the Reapers are just big bumbling robots who have no idea what the hell they're doing?

Thats almost as depressing as the Reapers being toys that godchild plays with.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

So in your version of events, the Reapers are just big bumbling robots who have no idea what the hell they're doing?

Thats almost as depressing as the Reapers being toys that godchild plays with.

No they are toys that godchild plays with and it has no idea what the hell it's doing

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Because some pesky humans might breach your defenses and ride the beam up to the Citadel, totally undoing all your plans?

I really doubt the Reapers are stupid enough to leave a gaping hole in their defenses just out of convenience.

Arrogance leads to overconfidence.

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

How do you know only one ship can go through? Cerberus uses the really constantly.

Also the reapers attacked earth first. It the place were they have the strongest foothold in the galaxy.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

So in your version of events, the Reapers are just big bumbling robots who have no idea what the hell they're doing?

Thats almost as depressing as the Reapers being toys that godchild plays with.

No. In my version the reapers are just as flawed as organics, since they are in part, organic. They may be super smart but they also seem to have emotions that cloud their judgment. Those emotions include arrogence and confidence. They display this in ME 1 when you talk to soveriegn.

They have a reason to be confident because they've been doing this for so long. Even though Shepard has been a thorn in their butts, they still don't take him seriously. Even after taking out Soveriegn, Collectors directly controlled by Harbinger, two destroyers and a Hades Cannon and scores or husks before even getting to Earth.

They stil have the nerve to claim that he will ultimately fail. Are they bumbling robots? No. They're just a bit "human" is all.

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Because some pesky humans might breach your defenses and ride the beam up to the Citadel, totally undoing all your plans?

I really doubt the Reapers are stupid enough to leave a gaping hole in their defenses just out of convenience.

Arrogance leads to overconfidence.

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

Are you honestly saying the Reapers are that stupid?

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

How do you know only one ship can go through? Cerberus uses the really constantly.

Also the reapers attacked earth first. It the place were they have the strongest foothold in the galaxy.

That's why I said Alliance. Cerberus wouldn't attack it because TIM wouldn't order it. One because he's indoctrinated and the other because he doesn't want them destroyed.

Also, no they attacked everyone at once. Palaven was already under attack while Shepard was on Mars. Asari colonies were also under attack.

[MegumiAzusa]

Uncle Jo wrote...

@MegumiAzusa

"Sounds to me like metal beams under stress."

Very true. As I heard it for the first time, the first thing I thought about was the sound of a ship wreckage.
Yet what kind of metallic structures do we have there ? The buildings are rather far away from the where the scene took place but the sound is very near (I would say upon Shepard). Could it come from the giant columns surrounding the Beam ?

From my other post:

[llbountyhunter]

swordmalice wrote...

As much as I would like to believe in the IT, I honestly don't think this is viable. Allow me to play devil's advocate here, and posit two problems I have with it.

1. If I am to believe that the IT is true, and everything post-Harbinger attack is an illusion, where does the Illusive Man fit into this? Bioware would certainly have to wrap up that plot point when (or if) Shepard breaks through the indoctrination.

2. Also, if the IT is true, then Bioware shipped us an incomplete game. What would be the point of holding out on the "true ending" for so long, given the hype that preceded this game's release? I can't see any rational game developer thinking that this would be a good idea, knowing that there'd be severe outrage at the "perceived" ending and its lunacy.

Again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I'm just trying to see this from every possible angle before I accept this theory's viability.

Your asking us what happened during the time of hallucination? How does not knowing disprove IT?

2. Yes with free ending dlc. At least is its free unlike other games where you pay 10 dollars for the ending...